jpg compression quality in windows 7 poorer than xp

zzz2496 · May 10, 2010

Can you make a screenshot of the issue in action? I looked at my own jpegs, it is normal as far as image quality goes... I don't see any image degradation in anyway... If I use Picasa's Preview, when I zoomed in - it will apply a light gaussian blur to the image, making it to look a bit smoother...

zzz2496

16cowboy · May 12, 2010

Its NOT a display or graphics issue.

When using the email photos button at top or side of the windows folder, this creates an email (in outlook or default program) with the photos already attached.

Its these photos from Windows 7 have more compression, distortion, and are overall less smooth. See my comparison attached.

16cowboy · May 12, 2010

Click the image I attached to see. To me it is quite plain & easy to see. There IS a difference. I created this by using the same method, one using XP, one using 7.

mitchell65 · May 12, 2010

I have looked at this carefully and frankly I can't see any difference at all!

zzz2496 · May 12, 2010

I do see very small difference, yes it's compression artifact... But why can't I reproduce your issue with my paint? I created a screenshot of my desktop for this thread, I don't see any artifacts in my picture... can you? It's made with MS Paint, installed with Windows 7 Ultimate x64...

zzz2496

Arc · May 12, 2010

16cowboy said:
Its NOT a display or graphics issue.

When using the email photos button at top or side of the windows folder, this creates an email (in outlook or default program) with the photos already attached.

Its these photos from Windows 7 have more compression, distortion, and are overall less smooth. See my comparison attached.

Really ... there is a little difference :sarc: but why ... it is to think ....

FliGi7 · May 17, 2010

I should clarify (not sure if I already have), that this zooming problem is when zooming to the point that the image has to be upscaled (i.e. to the point where it goes past the intended resolution). This zooming problem does not occur until the image reaches this point. Therefore, the problem exists in the way Win 7 upscales (or whatever you want to call it) an image as compared to XP. Zooming in on a high resolution image within its intended range of display resolution yields no problems. So, Arc is sort of right in saying this stems from the image itself just not being high enough resolution to zoom in as far as I am, but also shows this problem of how XP displays a blurrier image in a smoother format than the blocky/pixelated way Windows 7 does.

Does that make more sense?

fseal · May 17, 2010

Looking at the images, I would guess that the compression ratio is the same. The amount of artifacting looks exactly the same BUT it appears that the Windows 7 one has been "Sharpened". Look specifically at the bricks.

If you load the XP one into photoshop and sharpen it it will look like the 7 one.

There is definately a difference, but exactly whats causing it... dunno.

mitchell65 · May 17, 2010

I am loosing this thread I think. We started off with Windows 7 email photos being of lesser quality the XP. There does appear to be a very small difference and one can't help thinking "Does it really matter that much?" If you have an important image to send you would send it surely as an attachment at as higher quality as the recipient was able to receive!
We now seem to have gone into the hazy area of zooming. OK there seems to be a difference between XP and Win 7 but I for one can only see the difference when the two are put side by side! Not that many people have a dual boot system so again I ask "Does it really matter that much?"

Arc · May 17, 2010

mitchell65 said:
I am loosing this thread I think. We started off with Windows 7 email photos being of lesser quality the XP. There does appear to be a very small difference and one can't help thinking "Does it really matter that much?" If you have an important image to send you would send it surely as an attachment at as higher quality as the recipient was able to receive!
We now seem to have gone into the hazy area of zooming. OK there seems to be a difference between XP and Win 7 but I for one can only see the difference when the two are put side by side! Not that many people have a dual boot system so again I ask "Does it really matter that much?"

Not at all ! It is absolutely true that the little difference is not traceable if the two are not placed side by side .

FliGi7 · May 17, 2010

My input on zooming is the product of the OP's original complaint about Windows 7 just displaying images poorly as compared to XP. So, I believed it was in the same vein of problems. From what has been posted, there appears to be very little difference, however I have been trying to make time to post what I'm seeing as well, which is an even further exacerbation of the comparison recently posted. I just have not had time as I recently wiped out my XP drive.

I don't blame anyone in here for not fully understanding what is being talked about as there is yet to be a clear comparison of what we're talking about. However, the problem does exist and we're simply searching for any answer as to why. The question isn't whether it matters or not, it's why and how it has changed from XP to Win 7, of which we still don't have an answer.

FliGi7 · May 19, 2010

FINALLY... what everyone has been waiting for. Here is a case-in-point comparison of what I'm talking about:

Windows 7 zoom on a small(er) size image:

XP zoom on the same image at the same zoom:

Do you see how smooth the upscaling/zoom is on XP as compared to the Win 7 image that is severely pixelated and blocky, as if there is zero smoothing going on?

fseal · May 19, 2010

Well being a photographer. My opinion is that I do NOT want the OS "Smoothing out" images when I zoom in on them. I want to see the pixels.

They probably got a ton of complaints about the smoothed zoom.

Obviously no one solution is going to please everyone. Sounds like a good idea for a "preference".

Have you tried looking for maybe registry settings for the image viewer? I'd do it right now but am at work on my Ecccs Peee machine

FliGi7 · May 19, 2010

It even does the pixelation with 3rd party image viewers. I tried Fastone Image Viewer as well with no improvement.

The bottom line on this, though, is that I even notice it without zooming on both pictures and video, and first came across it when playing videos that were upscaled/zoomed/larger than native resolution when I was first trying out Win 7. So, even if it doesn't matter for pictures and could be considered a "feature" for photographers who like to see the pixels, the point is that it is an OS-level "problem" (or "preference" or whatever we'd like to term it) for the people who just want to see things smoothed like in XP rather than crappy and pixelated.

zzz2496 · May 19, 2010

FliGi7, I use FastStone Image Viewer, I use Google Picasa image viewer, none of them inhibits what your screenshot shows. I'll post several screenshots when I'm back. In FastStone there's an option of preview resizer, in Google Picasa, it does the upscaling automatically. I'm interested as of why this happen. I have an XP box that does exactly like what your 7 did, everything when zoomed in is very pixelated.

If I were you, I'd look at the video driver first... at least my old XP box did that (few years back) because of defective display driver.

zzz2496

FliGi7 · May 20, 2010

zzz2496 said:
If I were you, I'd look at the video driver first... at least my old XP box did that (few years back) because of defective display driver.

zzz2496

I've tried many different video drivers for my card. From XP, to Vista, to beta 7 drivers, to now having the latest NVIDIA with a completely clean Win 7 install. Nothing changes this.

FliGi7 · May 20, 2010

I've come to the conclusion that this problem is most likely due to the new(er) EVR Video and Image Renderer released starting with Windows Vista and coming to Windows 7. Windows XP used VMR9 for displaying images and videos. So, I suppose the only way this could ever be fixed would be to revert back to the VMR9 engine for your image and video display applications. I guess I'll have to play around with things and see how to do that.

Here's some links of related info and posts about the same type problems with no solution:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd374574(VS.85).aspx
http://www.comprousa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1032
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=77791
http://www.sevenforums.com/media-center/14816-media-player-classic-homecinema-vmr9-issues.html
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Fo...t/thread/bce66e94-d182-4f39-a1ba-130d6c05827d
http://shark007.net/forum/Thread-VMR-9-vs-VMR-7

FliGi7 · May 24, 2010

Can someone else download the file, zoom to the level that I did, and post a screenshot for comparison purposes?

http://gadgetquake.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/canon400d_main-300x260.jpg

zzz2496 · May 25, 2010

Here you go, machine spec as listed in my profile..

From top left to bottom right:
Top row = Firefox-->Media Player Classic HC-->Windows Photo Viewer
Bottom row = Picasa picture viewer --> Google chrome --> FastStone Image viewer

The ones that are "pixelated" is MPC-HC and Windows Photo Viewer.

zzz2496

FliGi7 · May 25, 2010

Thanks, zzz! This (possibly) confirms that a lot of people have the same problem/issue/"feature" I'm talking about but just don't notice it as much as I do for my uses. It is very comforting to have this sanity check to see that it isn't such a rarity, just something overlooked by most.

I'm gonna try installing mpc-hc, actually, and play around with the rendering options to see if they help (which could help me get a better idea of which settings would work better for video as well).

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