Windws 7 + Windows For Workgroups question...

nethfel · 07 Sep 2010

Hi all,

I know - this already sounds like a worst case scenario trying to use windows 7 with one of the oldest windows OS' that supported some form of networking.

Well, here's the deal - the CNC machine I need to be able to send files to is - yes, WFW 3.11. It currently shares a folder to put the appropriate gcode files into for the actual CNC controlling software. This has been fine with XP. We recently got a new machine that has Windows 7 Pro 64bit to replace one of the old XP machines that has died. Needless to say, windows 7 refuses to authenticate against the WFW machine.

It just keeps coming back asking for credentials. They are both part of the same workgroup, and the win7 machine sees the cnc machine, but it just refuses to map the share.

And no, the hardware in the cnc machine can't be upgraded to a newer version OS - it's currently too slow and to replace it is too expensive.

Has anyone been able to get Windows 7 to communicate with WFW 3.11 in a workgroup setting?

**cluberti** · 07 Sep 2010

You probably have to (at least) change Win7 from using NTLMv2 only auth - you may have to also disable the requirement for 128-bit encryption, although I'd suggest just the first change by itself and re-test access after a reboot before making the second and third:
Start > secpol.msc > Local Policies > Security Options
- Network security: LAN Manager authentication level > Send LM & NTLM responses
- Network security: Minimum session security for NTLM SSP based clients > Disable Require 128-bit encryption
- Network security: Minimum session security for NTLM SSP based servers > Disable Require 128-bit encryption

SledgeDG · 07 Sep 2010

Why not installing a virtual machine, mount a WfW image and go from there?

-DG

**cluberti** · 08 Sep 2010

After spending a few years on a factory floor supporting automation, the hardware in that CnC machine is specialized and is likely unable to be virtualized. The reason they're so expensive is because the hardware to do the actual robotic control is specialized, and so is the software that runs it. You need to run an OS that has direct hardware access, so DOS, WfW, or perhaps Win9x (although DOS and WfW were the most common platforms).

SledgeDG · 08 Sep 2010

Maybe I misunderstood the problem at hand.
I was under the impression that it's just a communication problem between the PC (which creates the gcode files) and the CNC machine (which needs access to said files) Never worked with CNC but that is what I would've done with our ancient plotters which weren't able to use unprocessed data from our surveyor equipment...they still need their Addidas-Network (actually bring the data over on 3.5" floppies)

Since it apparently worked with the XP machine I thought setting up a VM would be better/faster than dumping W7 altogether and put XP on that new pc.

-DG

**cluberti** · 08 Sep 2010

No worries. If it was just a WfW thing, that would make sense. Unfortunately, the problem is that you can't put the specialized hardware into a VM too

.

nethfel · 13 Sep 2010

I'm sorry it took sooo long to get back to you all, I got tied up with other issues I had to fix.

@SeldgeDG: The CNC machine has AT BEST a 386 cpu/MB combo in it (I don't have it in front of me atm, but I want to say it may even be a 286). It runs WFW for networking connectivity only - the actual software that drives the CNC machine, that interprets the GCode is a DOS based application - the interface card the connects between the computer and the actual drive mechanism is a ISA board (this board is part of what the software is specifically written to control). All of this is contained within the CNC machine itself and can't just easily be changed. I wish it was easier, trust me

@cluberti: I tried reducing the security encryption level and the authentication level, but I still keep getting the asking for username/password even when using user account credentials that are legitimate for accessing the WFW share.

I *could* put XP on these boxes, but we are really wanting to move the computers themselves into a more modern operating system, especially as we are starting to get to a point of wanting/needing more RAM for many of the applications that are required.

I thought of using MS virtual PC, but that creates a bunch of other issues, including the fact that it will reduce the performance level of the system, give a user access to something we don't want them to have access to, require yet another tool to be always running and require its own AV making the overall machine require twice the work and maintenance.

**cluberti** · 13 Sep 2010

Can you get a network trace from the Win7 client with wireshark and repro this? It would be useful to see what the WfW machine is challenging with, and what the Win7 machine is responding with, as far as protocols and encryption/security levels.

nethfel · 13 Sep 2010

I will see what I can do - I may not be able to work on it at that level until next week (I have a conference I have to go to later this week and I still have to finish up my presentation for it plus I have to cable up a room before I leave)