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Windows 7: Am I the only one?


20 Apr 2011   #21

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Shootist View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
Hello MacGyvr,
Appreciate your input. I like Norton, it is easier for me to handle than MSE. I've heard the argument before, but am happy with the compromise. I keep MSE only for standalone scan, not running realtime protection. Maybe if I get less lazy and learn MSE I'll understand it's benefits. But I've got quite a while on my subscription to learn. Always accept learned advice. As for the never have to AV's running at the same time, as I said I do not, but have previously for years and never had any problems. Lucky I guess. Take care.
glennc
I got rid of any Norton/Symantec products long ago.
They are for the most part CRAP. Resource hogs, bloat ware.
9 times out of 10 they cause more problems then they solve.
I am amazed how many people still use these products. Symantec/Norton should be out of business.
I think most of it comes from the hysteria over virus/malware/spyware infections we suffer from today.

I myself do not run any AV, malware or spyware programs REAL TIME on any of my PCs.
I do have Malware bytes and several AV programs on a BOOT recovery USB flash drive and I make regular images of my main system and program drive.
I don't go to junk websites or open emails form people/places I don't know (and if by chance I do VIEW a email form someone/place I don't know I NEVER click on the attachment included), they get deleted straight away.
Suit yourself but there are much better product on the market.
Howdy Shootist,
Thanks for your opinion. I have found Norton 2011 to be very user friendly, the resources that it uses, do not seem to hamper my system enough for me to notice.
I am not a gamer or do vast amounts of intensive programs, so it fits me fine. Again I don't have the skill or expertise to worry about it. I like that it updates every few minutes, other than daily. I do double check it with regular MSE scans. Commodo supposedly sandboxes anything that I don't tell it I don't want to.
I do not have the confidence to go AV free. My resources rarely go past 50% of my memory and my cores rarely bottom out unless I am doing quite a few more things at the same time than I used to. But maybe eventually I will heed the many experts advice and try just MSE. But the learning curve time is not available currently. Thanks again!
Glenn


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

20 Apr 2011   #22

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post
But maybe eventually I will heed the many experts advice and try just MSE. But the learning curve time is not available currently.
See, that's the point we're trying to make. What learning curve? The point behind MSE is that there is no learning curve. You install it from Microsoft's website, and that's it. It updates itself, and warns you if it encounters anything suspicious. There's nothing you need to learn or even give attention to. It's as easy as an AV software package could possibly be.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Apr 2011   #23

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Shootist View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by glennc View Post

Hello DeaconFrost,
That is part of the problem. I've looked at MSE and there are to me many cryptic options and choices. Too cryptic for my ease of use. I do not like to rely on a program's default settings usually, also. With some understanding and real knowledge, I would probably agree with you. Till that occurs I must rely on what I know works. My combo has kept me completely free. Performance wise I really don't notice a difference since I upgraded my computer about the same time and it is much more powerful than my last that everything flies. I would like to learn MSE but have a lot on my plate. Many people I respect, including you, say the same thing! Must be something to it! Thanks
Glenn
You're kidding, right?
At least MSE allows you to get to the options. The last time I ran a Norton product most of the options were hidden, buried so deep that you have to go through all kinds of windows to get to them.
There attitude was Use the program as WE suggest, Don't make changes in any way to how it works. No thanks.
No, I am not kidding in the least. Having a history with Norton, I am more familiar with it. To me MSE is cryptic and doesn't hold your hand like Norton. I like my hand held to a degree, makes me warm and fuzzy feeling. This is in respect to my level of expertise. MSE is probably quite easy if you know what your are doing, I dun't.
Glenn
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.


20 Apr 2011   #24

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

MSE is quite easy even if you don't know what you are doing. What is it you think you need to do or configure? I have all of my company's staff install it on their home computer, and the same goes for family and friends. All I need to do is point them to the website to install it, and that's it.

I'm honestly extremely confused here. There's nothing in MSE that you need your hand held through, because there's nothing you need to do. Some of my users can't figure out how to open programs from their Start Menu, but they have no issues with MSE.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Apr 2011   #25

Several, including Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

I think you will find he is confusing MSE ( Microsoft Security Essentials ) with Windows firewall.

@ Glen.

I agree with what the others have written. MSE is not only the easiest AntiVirus software, it is also very reliable.

Of course, it is entirely up to you what you use, but there is no learning curve involved with MSE. You simply install it and it works.

I would never recommend Norton, or Comodo either for that matter, but I have no reservations or hesitation at all in recommending MSE. I use it myself on some machines.

Indeed, I only really use others in order to keep up with what other people are using. If I have never used something I don't know how it works and can not troubleshoot it. But that is not normally a consideration for most users.

Having said that, the only other antivirus software of that nature I use is Avira, mainly because it is very popular and widespread here. Were it not for that, I would not bother with it, and simply use MSE.

Regards....Mike Connor
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Apr 2011   #26

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Hello Gentlemen,
Sorry for confusing the matter more than is necessary. I have indeed confused Windows Firewall with MSE. So so much for that discussion. You don't use Windows Firewall if you are using MSE, correct?
Since so many experts are convinced about MSE, what about it makes it superior. I know it doesn't have the hold your hand features, which would lessen the overhead. I know that it only updates once a day, rather than every few minutes. Can you please indulge me with your explained opinions on it being a better, safer and easier product to use. You've gotten me interested again.
My problem is lack of experience. As stated previously, some don't use AV's, software firewalls or antimalware at all, relying I assume on safe surfing tactics, which I practice, and the safety of the Router Firewall. Again I know nothing of the Router Firewall so I can't rely on any knowledge of how and what it blocks, knows what to block and does so correctly, even though mine has two as Mike pointed out. Two what, doing what more specifically than blocking unwanted intrusion. What inspects my emails for all sorts of bugaboo's that are running rampant. I once opened an email from my Aunt and Norton blocked it immediately. Her system was compromised and I was on a hit list. No problem with the protection of software AV.
Again, I just don't get what is so specifically special about MSE. I consider it great enough to use as a backup scanner. I don't recall that it scans my downloads and checks it against a network of users, rating it on date, how many users are having no problem. When I run a videos, does MSE scan the file prior to popping it into the viewer? Also does it let me decide what programs are to be trusted and which to allow one time use? You see I have many questions. MSE just seems to do whatever it wants to, IIRC. Low key but reliant on the programmer's idea's of what my need are.
I believe you guys, I just don't understand the fervor and would like to be more informed if any of you are willing. Thanks for all your time.
Glenn
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Apr 2011   #27

Several, including Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

Hello Gentlemen,
Sorry for confusing the matter more than is necessary. I have indeed confused Windows Firewall with MSE. So so much for that discussion. You don't use Windows Firewall if you are using MSE, correct?

That is not correct. Windows Firewall meshes perfectly with Microsoft Security Essentials. Better than any other.

Since so many experts are convinced about MSE, what about it makes it superior. I know it doesn't have the hold your hand features, which would lessen the overhead. I know that it only updates once a day, rather than every few minutes. Can you please indulge me with your explained opinions on it being a better, safer and easier product to use. You've gotten me interested again.

It is built by the same people who built the operating system, and works perfectly with that operating system. It runs live protection, has an on demand scanner that you can schedule, and requires no knowledge at all to use.

My problem is lack of experience. As stated previously, some don't use AV's, software firewalls or antimalware at all, relying I assume on safe surfing tactics, which I practice, and the safety of the Router Firewall.

The router firewall only protects anything behind it from direct access. It is not an anti-virus protection.

Again I know nothing of the Router Firewall so I can't rely on any knowledge of how and what it blocks, knows what to block and does so correctly, even though mine has two as Mike pointed out. Two what, doing what more specifically than blocking unwanted intrusion.

That is all it does, block access to anything behind it.

What inspects my emails for all sorts of bugaboo's that are running rampant. I once opened an email from my Aunt and Norton blocked it immediately. Her system was compromised and I was on a hit list. No problem with the protection of software AV.

The "Real-time protection" in MSE protects you from ANY viruses, spyware, or other potentially unwanted software that attempts to install itself or run on your machine.

Again, I just don't get what is so specifically special about MSE. I consider it great enough to use as a backup scanner. I don't recall that it scans my downloads and checks it against a network of users, rating it on date, how many users are having no problem.

It scans all downloads;



When I run a videos, does MSE scan the file prior to popping it into the viewer? Also does it let me decide what programs are to be trusted and which to allow one time use? You see I have many questions. MSE just seems to do whatever it wants to, IIRC. Low key but reliant on the programmer's idea's of what my need are.


It scans everything unless you specifically exclude something.

I believe you guys, I just don't understand the fervor and would like to be more informed if any of you are willing. Thanks for all your time.
Glenn

Not a case of fervour, it is simple, reliable, and free, from the the builders of the operating system you are using. They know more about their system than anybody else does. It is also continually being improved and developed. The first versions were not all that great, but the newer versions are first class.

Regards....Mike Connor
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Apr 2011   #28

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Kudos to Mike COnnor for figuring it out.

glennc, you are still confusing the purposes of anti-virus and a firewall. The Windows Firewall is a separate entity than MSE, and it turned on by default when MSE is installed, if it wasn't turned on already.

Firewalls check network traffic for unathorized requests, like a hacker getting in, or some malware/program sending your data out.

Anti-virus apps scan programs and files for malicious code. As you download a file, it is scanned for malicious content.

The two work hand in hand to keep you safe from threats, but are not one in the same. Your questions above seem to indicate you think Firewalls and anti-virus software do the same job...and they don't. Both are necessary, but don't confuse them as being the same.

This brings up the point of your paranoia. You can't fully understand what is needed to protect your computer if you aren't even sure of the roles of the tools and protections you have in place. I'm not saying that to be insulting. I'm saying it to turn the discussion into getting to the bottom of your current solution.

If you have a hardware firewall, such as your router, plus the Windows Firewall running, along with active anti-virus protection, you are pretty well covered. Combine that with common sense and good computing habits, and you should be fine.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Apr 2011   #29

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mike Connor View Post
Hello Gentlemen,
Sorry for confusing the matter more than is necessary. I have indeed confused Windows Firewall with MSE. So so much for that discussion. You don't use Windows Firewall if you are using MSE, correct?

That is not correct. Windows Firewall meshes perfectly with Microsoft Security Essentials. Better than any other.

Since so many experts are convinced about MSE, what about it makes it superior. I know it doesn't have the hold your hand features, which would lessen the overhead. I know that it only updates once a day, rather than every few minutes. Can you please indulge me with your explained opinions on it being a better, safer and easier product to use. You've gotten me interested again.

It is built by the same people who built the operating system, and works perfectly with that operating system. It runs live protection, has an on demand scanner that you can schedule, and requires no knowledge at all to use.

My problem is lack of experience. As stated previously, some don't use AV's, software firewalls or antimalware at all, relying I assume on safe surfing tactics, which I practice, and the safety of the Router Firewall.

The router firewall only protects anything behind it from direct access. It is not an anti-virus protection.

Again I know nothing of the Router Firewall so I can't rely on any knowledge of how and what it blocks, knows what to block and does so correctly, even though mine has two as Mike pointed out. Two what, doing what more specifically than blocking unwanted intrusion.

That is all it does, block access to anything behind it.

What inspects my emails for all sorts of bugaboo's that are running rampant. I once opened an email from my Aunt and Norton blocked it immediately. Her system was compromised and I was on a hit list. No problem with the protection of software AV.

The "Real-time protection" in MSE protects you from ANY viruses, spyware, or other potentially unwanted software that attempts to install itself or run on your machine.

Again, I just don't get what is so specifically special about MSE. I consider it great enough to use as a backup scanner. I don't recall that it scans my downloads and checks it against a network of users, rating it on date, how many users are having no problem.

It scans all downloads;



When I run a videos, does MSE scan the file prior to popping it into the viewer? Also does it let me decide what programs are to be trusted and which to allow one time use? You see I have many questions. MSE just seems to do whatever it wants to, IIRC. Low key but reliant on the programmer's idea's of what my need are.


It scans everything unless you specifically exclude something.

I believe you guys, I just don't understand the fervor and would like to be more informed if any of you are willing. Thanks for all your time.
Glenn

Not a case of fervour, it is simple, reliable, and free, from the the builders of the operating system you are using. They know more about their system than anybody else does. It is also continually being improved and developed. The first versions were not all that great, but the newer versions are first class.

Regards....Mike Connor
Mike,
So I still need the Window's Firewall with the cryptic (to me) setup in addition to MSE. I was under the false impression that it was not necessary from previous threads. I believe you! In the past and this is only my personal recollections, MS products get the most attacks because they are from MS. MS has a history of plugging holes that were missed and seemingly are the main target of malicious people and their harmful and criminal exercises. That is one reason. The other is that I recall Norton Defrag. Next windows version had incorporated it as their defrag built in. So MS is at the top and draws the most attention. That being said, it still doesn't offer the same hand holding. Does it's scan engine have much better detection than Norton. One problem I have is that I've already purchased it and it is good for another year. So without substantial gain, I can't reconcile a change at this time, though I may save myself some money next year.
In reference to Window's Firewall, from what I've read, only Commodo passed a test done on all major firewalls with a 100% detection rate, so that would seem to put it ahead of Window's version. I have lost the distinction mostly between what an AV, malware, spyware, firewall or an all in one products are doing. So thanks for the great explanation. I will certainly keep MSE in mind as I constantly use it.
WFirewall doesn't seem worth the effort to me over Commodo, another great hand holder and sandbox. Like I really understand the term sandbox
Glenn
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Apr 2011   #30

Several, including Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

Mike,
So I still need the Window's Firewall with the cryptic (to me) setup in addition to MSE.

The firewall installs automatically with the defaults, You don't need to set up anything. Messing about with software firewalls is only for very advanced users with special needs, and the knowledge required to implement them. "Normal" users should simply accept the default settings, and not even try to change anything. Trying this without the prerequisite knowledge will invariably do more harm than good.

I was under the false impression that it was not necessary from previous threads. I believe you! In the past and this is only my personal recollections, MS products get the most attacks because they are from MS. MS has a history of plugging holes that were missed and seemingly are the main target of malicious people and their harmful and criminal exercises. That is one reason. The other is that I recall Norton Defrag. Next windows version had incorporated it as their defrag built in. So MS is at the top and draws the most attention. That being said, it still doesn't offer the same hand holding.

I don't know what you mean by "hand-holding". Personally I prefer reliable unobtrusive solutions to most problems. The machine should be protected as well as possible without my having to do much at all. MSE is such a solution.

Norton and a few others are in my considered opinion little more than catastrophes waiting to happen. Indeed, in my further considered and not at all humble opinion, the vast majority of the stuff being offered in the private sector, even most of the supposedly "legitimate" anti-malware suites are little more than scams preying on people's anxieties, and depending on the general lack of knowledge in order to get people to buy them.

Does it's scan engine have much better detection than Norton. One problem I have is that I've already purchased it and it is good for another year. So without substantial gain, I can't reconcile a change at this time, though I may save myself some money next year.

I have never had a virus get through it on any of my machines, and on a lot of others as well. My sincere advice would be to throw the Norton stuff in the bin, and use MSE. In my experience the Norton stuff is unreliable and often a severe nuisance at best, and you have absolutely nothing to gain by keeping it. Quite the reverse! MSE is free.

In reference to Window's Firewall, from what I've read, only Commodo passed a test done on all major firewalls with a 100% detection rate, so that would seem to put it ahead of Window's version.

There are hundreds and thousands of so called "tests" for all sorts of things, all over the internet, and most of them are pure bullshit. The people you are talking to here have to deal with this stuff day in and day out, they know what works and what doesn't.

There is no such thing as a "Detection Rate" in regard to a firewall. A firewall blocks access to things which are not explicitly allowed. That is all it does. It does not detect anything.

The only way to get through a firewall is to use something disguised as something legitimate. Software firewalls usually have functions designed to detect such attempts and block them. These are direct access attempts and not viruses. Some viruses and other malware attempt to overcome firewalls by using legitimate channels. That is why you need both anti-virus software and a firewall.

With a router firewall, you are effectively isolated from the internet. Nothing can get through unless it uses a legitimate channel.

I have lost the distinction mostly between what an AV, malware, spyware, firewall or an all in one products are doing.

These things can be rather confusing, you have to understand the PURPOSE for which these tools are used in order to know what is going on.

So thanks for the great explanation. I will certainly keep MSE in mind as I constantly use it.

You would be better advised to dispense with the other stuff, and use MSE. But, this is entirely up to you.

WFirewall doesn't seem worth the effort to me over Commodo, another great hand holder and sandbox. Like I really understand the term sandbox
Glenn

There is no effort involved. Windows firewall does not require any setup or pampering or anything else, it just works.

A sandbox is something entirely different again. It is normally some method, a piece of software, or hardware, or system, which isolates part of the system from the rest of the system. I have two perfect sandboxes sitting in front of me right now. They are standalone machines with no internet connection, and I keep baseline images of their single drives. When I have finished messing about with whatever I am messing about with, I just restore the images. NOTHING gets out of my sandboxes.

Antivirus programs are not sandboxes.

With all due respect, if you don't know what these things actually do, then you are in no position to judge them at all.

As ever, it is entirely your choice whether you accept advice or not. It is however as well to remember that the others who posted here ( and myself), are doing their level best to help you and give you the best advice possible, simply because they would like things to work well for you.

Regards....Mike Connor

My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Am I the only one?




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