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Windows 7: Do I need an Ethernet hub, switch, or even a router to have my...?

13 Sep 2013   #11
Shadowjk

Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 ; Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard
 
 

Quote:
1. You said I would need to use a router and I cannot use a switch off of a modem. I did not know that, but now I do. I did have in my diagram as either using a switch or router; but as you have told me, I have no option and to use ONLY a router off a modem. So a Ethernet switch cannot be directly connected to a modem? Please explain.
You are correct, you can either have one machine connected to the modem or have a router connected to the modem to which multiple machines can then connect to the internet.

Quote:
2. You said I ultimately have to completely swap the hardware connections between routers (R1 and R2). Network hardware hardwired to LAN ports on R1 and the VOIP box to R2. Is there a way to have BOTH the VOIP box and the network hardware hardwired to the SAME router or not? I am curious? Please explain that one.
Yes you can have both hardwired and VoIP box on the same router but that will not separate them like you wish Some routers support a VLAN feature which would be used to separate this but unfortunately your model does not therefore this would not be possible without changing the router currently connected to the modem.

Quote:
3. I will need to get an unmanaged Ethernet switch too? ...and add it to my R1 router because I will be lacking hardwired ports in R1?
Yes, your diagram shows 4 hardwired devices. With one taken up for R2 you would only have 3 ports left on R1 therefore an unmanaged switch would be needed to allow additional devices to be hardwired.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions. Sorry if I have caused confusion

Josh


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13 Sep 2013   #12
Shadowjk

Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 ; Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard
 
 

I believe I may have found some similar steps for the netgear router.

http://www.downloads.netgear.com/fil..._24May2013.pdf

I will continue to see if an appropriate manual is available for the belkin firmware.

Josh
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13 Sep 2013   #13
montecarlo1987

Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 & Windows 8 & 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

@ Josh & Others:

Let me ask you this. I have a few more schemes I have considered. I have attached them to this post. Please let me know if any of these are doable please. This gives me something more to go on for ideas.

Please reply.

Thank you!


Attached Thumbnails
Do I need an Ethernet hub, switch, or even a router to have my...?-these-possible-home-networking-schemes.jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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13 Sep 2013   #14
montecarlo1987

Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 & Windows 8 & 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

@ Josh & Others:

Hello. I have thinking about other doable home netowrking schemes as well. Please see my attachment and please let me know if any of these are doable. This gives me some idea of what I can and cannot do.

Other people have been telling me my schemes for home networking are all good. Obviously, this doesn't seem to be the case as I am learning.

Please reply.

Thank you!


Attached Thumbnails
Do I need an Ethernet hub, switch, or even a router to have my...?-these-possible-home-networking-schemes.jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Sep 2013   #15
Shadowjk

Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 ; Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard
 
 

All scenarios can be done and are good for a home environment however they would not meet your requirements which is to make sure that the VoIP traffic is separated from the hardwired devices.

The only possible scheme that would meet this that I can think of is the one below:

Do I need an Ethernet hub, switch, or even a router to have my...?-scan0002.jpg


Anything connected to R2 would be completely separate from the devices connected to R1 while still being able to access the internet.

Hope This Helps,
Josh


My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Sep 2013   #16
montecarlo1987

Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 & Windows 8 & 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

@ Josh:

Thanks for all your input. I have realized this is not simple electrical current diagrams here, obviously, there is much more to this when it comes to networking. You have shown me and taught me a few things I would need to do here. THANK YOU!

I got to go for now. I will re-investigate this issue I have on Sunday, Spet, 15th. I will re-read this thread and see what I need to do. I will be back on Sunday.

Again, thank you for your help! ;-)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Sep 2013   #17
Shadowjk

Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 ; Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard
 
 

No worries! Yeh networking works on boundaries being placed by routers rather than a current, if that is what you were referring to

I'll still be here and will help where I can

Many Thanks,
Josh
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Sep 2013   #18
montecarlo1987

Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 & Windows 8 & 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

@ Josh:

I hope you are here and rejoined for a moment.

Hello again. Okay, I have a few questions I need to answer which will all encompass all my questions and realizations from earlier in this thread.

1. Just a thought -- helps me understand better: IF I DO *NOT* SEPARATE BOTH HARDWIRED NETWORKING COMPONENTS AND VOIP BOX OFF THE *SAME* ROUTER (in total opposition to my original concept I am trying to achieve here in this thread) or in fact *COMBINE* then under the *SAME* router, can I STILL USE a *SWITCH* *IMMEDIATELY AFTER* a CABLE MODEM then pass on to a ROUTER via a hardwired Ethernet cable?

...or do I *ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE* a *ROUTER* *IMMEDATELY FOLLOWING A CABLE MODEM* REGARDLESS of the intention/arrangement? Please explain if you need to so I understand this. NOTE: This is meant to be SIMPLE in nature WITHOUT the addition of special programming. What I mean is if you state the affirmative and it can be done but requires much more advanced programming to achieve this -- then the answer *FOR ME* is NO, it CANNOT be done.

2. Again, if my intention is NOT TO SEPARATE both hardwired networking components and VOIP box (again, in opposition what I am trying to achieve here in this thread), and STILL decide to use a second router for the sole purpose of simplicity of ONE QUICK disconnection/connection of an Ethernet cable between the two (2) routers to protect the rest of my network hardware from electrical storms by incorporating a second router (see my attached diagram below for clarity) after the first router; will I STILL NEED to have the VOIP box connected to the *FIRST* router or can I still (if I choose) connect the VOIP box to the *SECOND* router? In other words, does it really matter where I hardwire my VOIP box to either router (R1 or R2) in a double router setup? Please explain if you need to so I can understand. Read on...

Yes, you may think this is stupid because in this scenario I am NOT separating the VOIP box from the rest of the hardwired networking components, so why do I need *2* routers? True. Reason: Again, for the sole purpose of simplicity of ONE QUICK disconnection/connection of an Ethernet cable between the two (2) routers to protect the rest of my networking hardware from electrical storms. You may even suggest for me to get a switch after the router and disconnect/connect between the router and switch for electrical storms. True. Just would like to know in a double router situation (if I decide to use 2 routers back to back, basically using a second router in place of a switch), does it matter where I place the VOIP box off of what router (R1 or R2) or not??? Just want to know. (Yes, back to that two separate network programming again when another router is introduced into the home network, right?)

3. Any suggestions or thoughts?

Thank you very much!


Attached Thumbnails
Do I need an Ethernet hub, switch, or even a router to have my...?-detailed-diagram-question-2..jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Sep 2013   #19
Shadowjk

Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 ; Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by montecarlo1987 View Post
1. Just a thought -- helps me understand better: IF I DO *NOT* SEPARATE BOTH HARDWIRED NETWORKING COMPONENTS AND VOIP BOX OFF THE *SAME* ROUTER (in total opposition to my original concept I am trying to achieve here in this thread) or in fact *COMBINE* then under the *SAME* router, can I STILL USE a *SWITCH* *IMMEDIATELY AFTER* a CABLE MODEM then pass on to a ROUTER via a hardwired Ethernet cable?
Under no circumstances can you place a switch or a hub to a modem. You can physically but no devices will get internet access. You can either plug one device directly to the modem and have internet connectivity or connect a router and have multiple device connect to the internet simultaneously. It will always go - Modem >> Router >> Devices.

Quote:
2. Again, if my intention is NOT TO SEPARATE both hardwired networking components and VOIP box (again, in opposition what I am trying to achieve here in this thread), and STILL decide to use a second router for the sole purpose of simplicity of ONE QUICK disconnection/connection of an Ethernet cable between the two (2) routers to protect the rest of my network hardware from electrical storms by incorporating a second router (see my attached diagram below for clarity) after the first router; will I STILL NEED to have the VOIP box connected to the *FIRST* router or can I still (if I choose) connect the VOIP box to the *SECOND* router? In other words, does it really matter where I hardwire my VOIP box to either router (R1 or R2) in a double router setup? Please explain if you need to so I can understand. Read on...
No it does not, you can have it connected to whatever router you want. However in order to restrict access to it you will need to connect it like in my previous post. All network designs you have made so far with a router connected directly after the modem are valid.

Quote:
3. Any suggestions or thoughts?
If I was in your position I would try and do what you have designed in Option B - Simplest in terms of connections. Unless the devices connecting to your router aren't trusted I would not be too concerned about them being able to access it at all since the communication from the VoIP box will most of the time be directly to another device rather than broadcast out to all connected devices on the router therefore the chance of interception is extremely slim. Personally I feel that protecting devices from electrical storms is more important than someone intercepting my VoIP call. Then again I have no idea what sort of information is being exchanged so unless it is really top secret I would try and cater for ease of disconnection.

Hopefully this helps,
Josh
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Sep 2013   #20
westom

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by montecarlo1987 View Post
Reason: Again, for the sole purpose of simplicity of ONE QUICK disconnection/connection of an Ethernet cable between the two (2) routers to protect the rest of my networking hardware from electrical storms.
Again, if a surge is incoming on ethernet, then at the same time, that same current is outgoing to all connected computers, etc. Long after that current has flowed through everything, then only one item (or items) is damaged. It could be any item anywhere in that path. And often on the outgoing (not incoming) path. Nothing stops a surge.

Routers are often damaged when a surge is inside a house and hunting for earth ground. That current is incoming to every appliance - not just routers. Your internet (should) already has a best protector connected properly to earth. So what is a destructive path? Outgoing to earth via the router's internet connection. Why? Because that internet provider has installed (as required by code) best protection connected to earth.

Better is to disconnect from the incoming path.

Address the most common source of surges. Because an incoming source threatens every appliance - not just routers.

Many if not most surges occur when you are asleep, not home, showering, or unaware that a surge will occur (ie when sky is blue). That is a majority of 24 hours. How many of those 24 hours are you there ready to disconnect? Disconnecting was always an unreliable solution.

Best is to eliminate a destructive current before it enters a building. That well proven solution works 24/7 without disconnecting. Then routers (and dishwasher, furnace, bathroom GFCIs, TVs, clocks, refrigerator, recharging mobile phones, etc) are protected. Then protection always exists. Disconnecting works only when you get lucky and happen to disconnect in time.

Sacrificial router or switch does not exist. First current is passing through everything. Much later one device in that path (with weakest internal protection) fails. Hardware protection means a destructive current is inside the building. Your internet already has (should have) that solution installed for free by the provider. Protection made useless if a surge current is permitted inside via other paths.

Other automatic disconnecting solutions exist. But to work, it cannot only disconnect. And it is only effective for one type of destructive surge - lightning.
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