Apple demanded Microsoft to stop its Laptop Hunters ads

Lordbob75 · Jul 18, 2009

BCXtreme said:
I agree with your main point very strongly. Apple's main problem here is arrogance.

After one of the first Laptop Hunter ads, Apple actually responded by saying that saving money doesn't help if the computer doesn't work. They actually claimed that a Vaio FW laptop "doesn't work."

Then at WWDC 09 they made a slew of derogatory comments about Windows 7, all of which were outright lies. We all know that Apple didn't have someone test Windows 7 before making those remarks.

I find it so strange that Apple can get away with whatever bad business practices they want, with ZERO consequences. The EU is getting on Microsoft's case for bundling Internet Explorer with Windows; why not attack Apple for bundling Safari with OS X? Microsoft is accused of maintaining a monopoly in the PC market; Apple's legal department considers it a crime to install OS X on a computer they didn't build. People like us run hundreds of programs on our computers that have not been certified by MS; Apple has a killswitch in place on the iPhone that can let them deactivate any app on the device if they suddenly decide they don't like it.

The ultimate example of Apple arrogance is Snow Leopard's tagline: "The world's most advanced operating system." It's not. Windows can do more than Mac. Linux can do more than Mac. The only thing exceptionally advanced about Mac is the fancy graphics and special effects (cover flow, etc). And guess what? Last time I checked, you can get a lot of those fancy effects and UI in Windows, through the use of customization programs. So there goes the Snow Leopard tagline!

C'mon Apple, you whine and complain about MS criticizing your high prices in a commercial? The next commercial on the air had your Steve Jobs lookalike insinuating that PC users are stupid clumsy nerds. It doesn't take one of your "Geniuses" to figure out which insult is worse.

Hear hear!

VERY well said. (have some rep)

~Lordbob

joel406 · Jul 18, 2009

One of my customers daughter gets a new PC everytime she screws hers up. Gone through 3 at my last count. She decided to waste her $$ on a MAC last time. She didn't make it 24 hours before screaming for help. Nothing worked right.

All Apples are rotten if you ask me I have never seen one work right, even straight out of the box they are a mess.

Joshatdot · Jul 18, 2009

Muad Dib said:
Apple's strategy from the start was to create and sell Ferrari's to an elite group of well-to-do snobs and make owning a PC a symbol of "having made it" in the world. They wanted absolute control and a VERY large % if not 100% of the profits from all Apple related products and services. My first PC was an Apple IIe. Nice machine in its day.

IBM wanted absolute control and 100% of the profits from IBM DOS and any hardware they licensed the IBM BIOS to.

Bill Gates, like Henry Ford, created and marketed a Model T (MS-DOS) that even the lowliest of the population could afford. If not for themselves then for their children. His strategy changed PCs from a $$$ status symbol to a generic toaster found in every kitchen (Ok - maybe a washing machine, price wise, found in every laundry room). To the 3rd party hardware and software vendors he said - "Have at it, may the best products/services win!", and prices for all plummeted from OPEN market competition. And the population benefited.

Did he become the richest man in the world as a result? YES. Did MS come to dominate the market? YES. Do I resent their success? NO!

I, for one, am grateful, Bill Gates and MS are an example of entrepreneurial "Carpe Diem". They "seized the day" at a critical point in the history of technology.

But they did not grip the reins tightly as Apple and IBM attempted to do. They gave a wild horse a loose rein and held on for the ride. Many other industries simply grabbed the horses tail and did the same.

The existence of this forum is only one example of the consequences of the Apple versus MS strategies.

And I think the best horse won! That is the way of the free market.

That is a very god description of Apple & MS! But I would liek to add, MS usually steals or buys out another companys work/design/code. I mean look how MS-DOS and Windows first got into the market.

Watch Pirates of Silicon Valley, if any of you are old old skool computer geeks you'll love it if you haven't seen it already.

Klaw117 · Jul 18, 2009

BCXtreme said:
I agree with your main point very strongly. Apple's main problem here is arrogance.

After one of the first Laptop Hunter ads, Apple actually responded by saying that saving money doesn't help if the computer doesn't work. They actually claimed that a Vaio FW laptop "doesn't work."

Then at WWDC 09 they made a slew of derogatory comments about Windows 7, all of which were outright lies. We all know that Apple didn't have someone test Windows 7 before making those remarks.

I find it so strange that Apple can get away with whatever bad business practices they want, with ZERO consequences. The EU is getting on Microsoft's case for bundling Internet Explorer with Windows; why not attack Apple for bundling Safari with OS X? Microsoft is accused of maintaining a monopoly in the PC market; Apple's legal department considers it a crime to install OS X on a computer they didn't build. People like us run hundreds of programs on our computers that have not been certified by MS; Apple has a killswitch in place on the iPhone that can let them deactivate any app on the device if they suddenly decide they don't like it.

The ultimate example of Apple arrogance is Snow Leopard's tagline: "The world's most advanced operating system." It's not. Windows can do more than Mac. Linux can do more than Mac. The only thing exceptionally advanced about Mac is the fancy graphics and special effects (cover flow, etc). And guess what? Last time I checked, you can get a lot of those fancy effects and UI in Windows, through the use of customization programs. So there goes the Snow Leopard tagline!

C'mon Apple, you whine and complain about MS criticizing your high prices in a commercial? The next commercial on the air had your Steve Jobs lookalike insinuating that PC users are stupid clumsy nerds. It doesn't take one of your "Geniuses" to figure out which insult is worse.

Hear hear!

Muad Dib said:
Apple's strategy from the start was to create and sell Ferrari's to an elite group of well-to-do snobs and make owning a PC a symbol of "having made it" in the world. They wanted absolute control and a VERY large % if not 100% of the profits from all Apple related products and services. My first PC was an Apple IIe. Nice machine in its day.

IBM wanted absolute control and 100% of the profits from IBM DOS and any hardware they licensed the IBM BIOS to.

Bill Gates, like Henry Ford, created and marketed a Model T (MS-DOS) that even the lowliest of the population could afford. If not for themselves then for their children. His strategy changed PCs from a $$$ status symbol to a generic toaster found in every kitchen (Ok - maybe a washing machine, price wise, found in every laundry room). To the 3rd party hardware and software vendors he said - "Have at it, may the best products/services win!", and prices for all plummeted from OPEN market competition. And the population benefited.

Did he become the richest man in the world as a result? YES. Did MS come to dominate the market? YES. Do I resent their success? NO!

I, for one, am grateful, Bill Gates and MS are an example of entrepreneurial "Carpe Diem". They "seized the day" at a critical point in the history of technology.

But they did not grip the reins tightly as Apple and IBM attempted to do. They gave a wild horse a loose rein and held on for the ride. Many other industries simply grabbed the horses tail and did the same.

The existence of this forum is only one example of the consequences of the Apple versus MS strategies.

And I think the best horse won! That is the way of the free market.

Nice arguments, rep for the two of you.

pestbest · Jul 19, 2009

Muad Dib said:
Apple's strategy from the start was to create and sell Ferrari's to an elite group of well-to-do snobs and make owning a PC a symbol of "having made it" in the world. They wanted absolute control and a VERY large % if not 100% of the profits from all Apple related products and services. My first PC was an Apple IIe. Nice machine in its day.

IBM wanted absolute control and 100% of the profits from IBM DOS and any hardware they licensed the IBM BIOS to.

Bill Gates, like Henry Ford, created and marketed a Model T (MS-DOS) that even the lowliest of the population could afford. If not for themselves then for their children. His strategy changed PCs from a $$$ status symbol to a generic toaster found in every kitchen (Ok - maybe a washing machine, price wise, found in every laundry room). To the 3rd party hardware and software vendors he said - "Have at it, may the best products/services win!", and prices for all plummeted from OPEN market competition. And the population benefited.

Did he become the richest man in the world as a result? YES. Did MS come to dominate the market? YES. Do I resent their success? NO!

I, for one, am grateful, Bill Gates and MS are an example of entrepreneurial "Carpe Diem". They "seized the day" at a critical point in the history of technology.

But they did not grip the reins tightly as Apple and IBM attempted to do. They gave a wild horse a loose rein and held on for the ride. Many other industries simply grabbed the horses tail and did the same.

The existence of this forum is only one example of the consequences of the Apple versus MS strategies.

And I think the best horse won! That is the way of the free market.

Thank you for such an insightful post. I totally agree. If there wasn't a Windows now, we will all be stuck to IBM and Apple. Do you really think everyone will be able to afford Apple's hardware? No. It would be simply the rich people who have computers. In schools and even workplaces, there will be expensive hardware which are not value-for-money and as an end result, education and all technology will all be affected.

That's why I respect Bill Gates. While Apple and IBM thought of the profits and what is better for themselves, Bill Gates thought of us and how computers could benefit consumers instead of themselves. Microsoft may be anti-competitive but they are the ones who are really helping the world advance via technology and computers.

PhreePhly · Jul 19, 2009

Joshatdot said:
That is a very god description of Apple & MS! But I would liek to add, MS usually steals or buys out another companys work/design/code. I mean look how MS-DOS and Windows first got into the market.

Watch Pirates of Silicon Valley, if any of you are old old skool computer geeks you'll love it if you haven't seen it already.

I've watched Pirates of Silicon Valley, and it's not bad, but there is a strong Apple bias in the production.

The show portrays Gates as über-geeky, but completely misses his early understanding and visions of where the PC will fit in the home. While Gates was a decent software guy, Paul Allen was the real coding talent. However, as Muad Dib pointed out, Gates was the strong "Henry Ford" businessman with a vision.

As far as your point regarding MS "stealing" or buying out, let's be honest, MS "steals"as much as the next guy. And the guys that MS buys out, well they are usually very happy about that.

And I just went through this with petrossa, but I'll repeat it here. When IBM was introducing their early PC, they wanted an operating system. They knew about Gates and Microsoft from their work on the BASIC interpeter on the Altail 8800. They approached Gates to develop an OS. Gates told IBM to go see Gary Kildall of DRI and look at his CP/M OS. Gary essentially blew off IBM, so IBM came back to Gates and said, find us something else.

Gates knew what this could mean financially, so he had Paul Allen buy the rights to 86-DOS and they tweeked it to fit the IBM PCs and it shipped as PC-DOS. Now 86-DOS was basically a clone of CP/M and when Gary Kildall got ticked and threatened to sue IBM. IBM agreed to offer users the choice of CP/M or PC-DOS. The problem was that Kildall insisted on selling CP/M for $240 (this was 1984 dollars) and IBM was selling PC-DOS at $40. Gary was sure people would pay for quality. He was wrong.

And as far as Windows goes and the GUIs out there, the writing was on the wall, GUIs were going to be the interface of the future and Apples lame attempt at the "look and feel" lawsuit was just stupid. Apple never bought any rights to the Xerox PARC UI. They also "stole" the look and feel.

PhreePhly

Ohgami · Jul 19, 2009

Joshatdot said:
I remember the old Mac comercials from early 2000's, and then this came out...loved it

YouTube - Mac Gamer Spoof

This is my personal favorite Mac Spoof. A bit old but still LOL

Muad Dib · Jul 19, 2009

Ohgami said:
This is my personal favorite Mac Spoof. A bit old but still LOL

I have never seen that one. That was funny! :roflmao:

Slimy · Jul 19, 2009

Ohgami said:
This is my personal favorite Mac Spoof. A bit old but still LOL

That's my fave as well

BCXtreme · Jul 20, 2009

Joshatdot said:
That is a very god description of Apple & MS! But I would liek to add, MS usually steals or buys out another companys work/design/code. I mean look how MS-DOS and Windows first got into the market.

Watch Pirates of Silicon Valley, if any of you are old old skool computer geeks you'll love it if you haven't seen it already.

While MS does buy out other products sometimes, I disagree with the use of the words "usually" and "steals". If you want to talk about a company stealing something ... well, did you know that the iPod was not actually invented by "Steve Jobs, et al" as the patent suggests? Look it up.

chev65 · Jul 20, 2009

After years of smear tactics against Msoft they want an add that isn't nearly as offensive taken off the air?

They had it coming for a long time now and now they can suck it up and take the same abuse they have been dishing out for years. What comes around goes around.

grouchpunk08 · Jul 20, 2009

Wow, apple can't take what they dish out or what? I mean, apple had those mac commercials with justin long and that pc guy, dissing pc's about viruses and whatnot. Now that microsoft is retaliating, apple is getting all pissy.

BCXtreme · Jul 20, 2009

chev65 said:
After years of smear tactics against Msoft they want an add that isn't nearly as offensive taken off the air?

They had it coming for a long time now and now they can suck it up and take the same abuse they have been dishing out for years. What comes around goes around.

Indeed.

grouchpunk08 said:
Wow, apple can't take what they dish out or what? I mean, apple had those mac commercials with justin long and that pc guy, dissing pc's about viruses and whatnot. Now that microsoft is retaliating, apple is getting all pissy.

And Microsoft is just pointing out how overpriced Macs are. I believe that the Laptop Hunters ads actually acknowledge the "cool" factor of Macs, while Apple's commercials portray all us PC users as dorky losers. So Apple gets to promote their products AND send a bad message to kids/teens all in one ad!

pparks1 · Jul 20, 2009

Yeah these ads are spot on accurate. I'm tired of how Apple always makes it seem like if you want to do some generic task that they are the only ones who can really do it correctly and provide a suitable outcome.

My biggest complain with Apple has been and will continue to be...they are way too pricey for what you get. Plain and simple. It takes more than a shiny case and some bouncy icons to make me realize how much money something just cost me. I don't really have that many problems maintaining a PC and I can buy a nice desktop and a nice laptop for the price of 1 MacBook Pro...so it's pretty much a no-brainer.

Nax Shale Chan · Jul 20, 2009

Great arguments, all around...

As for Apple products... While they might seem more secure than PCs, that is at least a 70% load of BS. As long as the common PC user ********s a good amount of common sense, and keeps an antivirus program installed, has Windows Firewall up (or similar), they can be just as secure as a Mac.

It is a simple matter of how many people are attacking each respectively. Every day, there are hundreds, if not thousands of attacks made on PCs. On the other hand, very few are made against Apple. This is the entire basis of Apple's "more secure".

Whoever said someday, some blacklist organization will trash Apple just to make an example, I agree completely. One day, somebody or bodies are going to trash Apple's OS to make their point. Apple is not invincible, or even more significantly more secure than Windows.

(About pricing... Yep, I could get a laptop and a desktop with better specs than a MacBook Pro for the same price of 1... absolutely. )

patrickt · Jul 20, 2009

Actually reminds me of when my kids were six and seven. My daughter comes into the room screaming, "Daddy, Sean hit me back." She couldn't figure out why I was laughing.

MorganC · Jul 20, 2009

What about the Mac VS PC ads? Mircosoft never demanded Apple to stop those. Sigh.

Master Chief · Jul 20, 2009

When I saw those ads all I could think was "F*** yeah, go MS!" which is something I haven't said in a looong time.

lokiundergod · Jul 20, 2009

BCXtreme said:
I find it so strange that Apple can get away with whatever bad business practices they want, with ZERO consequences. The EU is getting on Microsoft's case for bundling Internet Explorer with Windows; why not attack Apple for bundling Safari with OS X? Microsoft is accused of maintaining a monopoly in the PC market; Apple's legal department considers it a crime to install OS X on a computer they didn't build. People like us run hundreds of programs on our computers that have not been certified by MS; Apple has a killswitch in place on the iPhone that can let them deactivate any app on the device if they suddenly decide they don't like it.

Very poignant argument and well thought-out post. I often bring up similar points when discussing the benefits and drawbacks of the different operating systems. A perfect example is that my in-laws bought a Macbook and tried to connect an mp3 player, then complained when it didn't want to sync with iTunes. "I thought Macs were just supposed to work." To which I replied "Yes, they do...when you buy other Apple products." They weren't quite as happy with it after that.

Lordbob75 · Jul 21, 2009

lokiundergod said:
Very poignant argument and well thought-out post. I often bring up similar points when discussing the benefits and drawbacks of the different operating systems. A perfect example is that my in-laws bought a Macbook and tried to connect an mp3 player, then complained when it didn't want to sync with iTunes. "I thought Macs were just supposed to work." To which I replied "Yes, they do...when you buy other Apple products." They weren't quite as happy with it after that.

:roflmao:

I actually snorted some water up my nose.....

Very true, all of you. Well said, and great explanations.

The thing is, most people that use Macs for a real use, such as media editing, and so on, know how to use them. They have been trained with them, and everything they have works with them. They also would have a Mac expert standing by on a phone line somewhere (lol).

Your average PC user is just that; average. Most people use PCs. This means that most of them just don't know a lot about computers. Sure, they can run them, get internet, check their mail, maybe browse YouTube. But that is it. They may not run an AV, they may not know they need it! They just want it to work for what they need. They don't push the limits.
They get angry when it doesn't work. There are enough bugs in Windows that it is bound to happen. Which is why tech support works so well.
Now, what Apple says, is true. Really it is. They DO just work.
Really.

As long as you use all Apple products with them.
As long as they are compatible.
As long as you bought the warranties for them to get the tech support.

The difference with PCs, is that NO, it DOES NOT always work! WE know that. The general public does NOT. Which is why Apple's point is VALID, if phrased in a bad way.
PCs "Just Work" with MORE things than Apple does. It is just that you need to make sure it is all compatible.

PCs require a higher level of expertise, and if we were to train all of our PC users with just a LITTLE bit more technical knowledge, Apple would be out of the PC business!

However, they do make really nice mp3 players.

~Lordbob

Apple demanded Microsoft to stop its Laptop Hunters ads

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