Windows 7 Goes Gold (RTM): Can Apple or Google Tarnish

I cant wait for OEM

HerrKaLeun said:

Apple just works. that is correct. However, it doesn't have any use for things that computers were originally intended for:
- no professional software beyond Adobe products (no CAD, no engineering software...)

So CAD and engineering software are the only kind of "professional software"? What about QuarkXPress (layout), Final Cut Pro (video post-production) or Aperture (for professional photographers)? What about development environments like Eclipse or JBuilder?

HerrKaLeun said:

- no games

Of course, Windows is the best game loader available for computers. But since a whole video games console costs less than the graphics card needed for current games and many games are either released exclusively or much earlier for consoles, it's an easy choice. Btw, I don't think "games" are one the things "a computer was originally intended for".

HerrKaLeun said:

- no compatible Office program (the first thing the people who hate MS do when they buy a Mac is installing MS Office

Compatible with what? I think you're talking about "compatible with MS Office". It's funny how PowerPoint presentations look totally different if you create them with MS Office for Mac and open them with MS Office for Windows, or vice versa. Did you know that MS Office 3 was the first version for Windows? MS Office 1 and 2 were only available for Mac OS. :)

HerrKaLeun said:

If MS would sell an OS only with it's own overpriced hardware and would only let users browse the internet and draw pictures I'm sure it would be very stable, fast and easy to use.

I'm working as an IT professional and have been using Windows, OS X and Linux for years. OS X is my main operating system for software development and all of my daily work. I think I'm doing far more than "browsing the internet and drawing pictures".

About "overpriced hardware": My MacBook Pro is not only lighter and thinner than the Lenovo Thinkpad I use at work, it also cost 200 bucks less. CPU, graphics card and memory are identical. The Thinkpad has a larger harddrive, the MBP has a better display.

Of course you can buy an Acer notebook made of cheap plastic for less, but if you're in for professional hardware, it doesn't matter if you buy Apple, Dell, Lenovo or some kind of other brand.

wow, i don't think i've ever heard people arguing over macs vs pc before!

accolon said:

So CAD and engineering software are the only kind of "professional software"? What about QuarkXPress (layout), Final Cut Pro (video post-production) or Aperture (for professional photographers)? What about development environments like Eclipse or JBuilder?

that mostly is video/picture software. I believe most money is spent on buildings, infrastructure and industrial processes and that is what most design software is needed. I for sure can make my website with a PC software, but I can't design a power plant with a Mac. I can live without the website if needed, hard to have website without powerplant. Tell me Mac software that can do the things AutoCAD can, Trane TRACE,... and million other professional tools. I'm sure for almost every Apple software i can find a comparable PC option. I know traditionally Macs were strong in pictures and videos. I agree.. but PCs definitely made up (especially since Apple uses the same hardware . but video and pictures are not the main industry.

Of course, Windows is the best game loader available for computers. But since a whole video games console costs less than the graphics card needed for current games and many games are either released exclusively or much earlier for consoles, it's an easy choice. Btw, I don't think "games" are one the things "a computer was originally intended for".

I'm not a gamer, but I'm sure games were the first thing once the geeks had a computer running . where did you see the most computers in the 70's ? in game rooms... and games definitely drove the home computer hardware market. i don't think we had quad-CPUs athome if games didn't require them. A playstation is not comparable since it is the opposite ot a PC. the PC can do everything (maybe not the master in everything, but it can do everything). consoles can only do one single thing and are superior in that.

Compatible with what? I think you're talking about "compatible with MS Office". It's funny how PowerPoint presentations look totally different if you create them with MS Office for Mac and open them with MS Office for Windows, or vice versa. Did you know that MS Office 3 was the first version for Windows? MS Office 1 and 2 were only available for Mac OS. :)

that's why one uses a PC to begin with... I agree that the compatibility could be better. And Office might not be the best suite. but not the best wins, the most used wins. see Beta vs. VHS. when i only write my letters at home I can use openoffice or anything I like. As soon as i exchange documents (i.e. in professional environments) I need to go with the flow. I'm sure Intel and AMD know there is something better than 86-CPUs. but there is no software etc.


I'm working as an IT professional and have been using Windows, OS X and Linux for years. OS X is my main operating system for software development and all of my daily work. I think I'm doing far more than "browsing the internet and drawing pictures".

I'm not sure what exactly you work, but it seems work with computers. However, most people just use the PC to do the work (unlike you working to make the computer work, if you know what I mean). and for that one needs industry specific software. I don't see too many architects or engineers (except software engineers) use Mac and design roads, perform structural calculations, design buildings...

About "overpriced hardware": My MacBook Pro is not only lighter and thinner than the Lenovo Thinkpad I use at work, it also cost 200 bucks less. CPU, graphics card and memory are identical. The Thinkpad has a larger harddrive, the MBP has a better display.

Possible they have a way to produce high quality laptops. In the end their computers are exactly the same as higher-end PCs with the very same components. Except they sell it with their OS only. And the OS needs some specific motherboard feature (which we have workarounds for). there really isn't anything different anymore. I could with some hacks build a PC and run the Apple OS and it would behave the same. Is their OS better than W7? Probably matter of taste and what you do with the computer.
I also don't see too many Apple based servers, home servers with RAID etc.

Of course you can buy an Acer notebook made of cheap plastic for less, but if you're in for professional hardware, it doesn't matter if you buy Apple, Dell, Lenovo or some kind of other brand.

At least I have the choice of a cheaper laptop. I only watch some TV sometimes or read the internet on my couch. no need for an expensive laptop. I agree, sometimes the expensive one is needed.

accolon: Inserted my comments in bold. if you are happy with the Mac, that is fine. Is it overpriced? in my opinion yes. But some people drive a Lexus even if it only is a fancy Toyota. I'm sure my PC case is more than I really need. you have soem good reasons for yourself to use a Mac (I'm sure a PC would fulfill most of the needs as well, though). I'm glad you used valid arguments and not the Apple brainwash commercials.

the thing that really ticks me about Apple are:
- their commercials that don't even explain what a Mac can do, but only pun on windows. Lowest level in my opinion. Like in elections when the only argument candidate A has is how bad candidate B is.
- the claims about viruses etc. there is no evidence a PC is less safe. MS does a great job patching security problems for free for 5 years (10 for businesses), there are AVP, firewalls etc. I'm not sure about Apple's patch policy, but I'm sure their AVPs are less advanced if any
- their claim about windows crashing. I think since XP that is the past. If something crashes, then because of some bad software. But that comes with the larger software choice to begin with. Also the wider choice of hardware brings more issues without holding choice against MS
- their claim that MS is evil: at least MS only sells me an OS, and doesn't force their hardware on me. MS gets sued for including a browser (that is free in all cases to begin with!), but Apple can include all their productivity software and hardware?
- their claim that PCs are slow. Do you know how fast i can run an energy simulation... well, and Apple can't run it at all. So the PC is faster in that case

Chrome OS, Is only directed toward internet browsing and email.It will most likely be an Android OS for a netbook.It is not in the same class as Windows.

Macs have always been about image, sure their cases look nice but when it comes down to the hardware, Macs are very underpowered for their price with little freedom to customize.As far as "It just Works" sure as long as you use their proprietary software/Hardware.So Macs will always have their Steve Jobs fanbois and marketing drones, but I don't see them stealing any market shares from Microsoft any time soon.

billdo said:

Chrome OS, Is only directed toward internet browsing and email.It will most likely be an Android OS for a netbook.It is not in the same class as Windows.

Macs have always been about image, sure their cases look nice but when it comes down to the hardware, Macs are very underpowered for their price with little freedom to customize.As far as "It just Works" sure as long as you use their proprietary software/Hardware.So Macs will always have their Steve Jobs fanbois and marketing drones, but I don't see them stealing any market shares from Microsoft any time soon.

I think it is all about the right application and one will be happy.
- I need something for free and light for my netbook? chrome may be the thing...
- I'm in a mainstream professional environment and need tons of specialized software: windows is the King
- I'm comfortable to have something professional and like to play with the OS and want to be different: Linux is the way to go
- I want to use the computer for all my home application and don't play games , want to be different and willing to pay: Apple

Maybe the one isn't better than the other nor comparable... (one more reason to hate the Mac commercials!) .... It's like comparing a truck to a Prius to a Wagon to a Porsche. Each is good for its owner, but the Prius driver thinks the Porsche is horrible (no cargo space, terrible mileage, loud)

I think the (now) 4 ways of using computers are just for different people and uses. You won't get me in a Mac, I'm too lazy for Linux, don't have a netbook... use professional design and analysis software and build my own computers. So I'm a PC.

I think some PCs (Dell) are way overpriced for their poor quality and options. Apple is overpriced and possibly not too powerful (due to the lack of many applications one can't really compare), but they tend to use high-end materials. the PCs I build myself sure beat an Apple (if i ran OSX on it for comparison), but apple computers on average are probably better than the average PC (at twice the price, of course). Well, apple delivers much more software with the computer. On the other hand there is not much free software available (compared to PCs)

when you look at some case modders, PCs are about image as well.

when you look at some case modders, PCs are about image as well.

I think you're confusing self expression and individuality with image, which is the complete opposite of Mac's image devoid of individuality.

billdo said:

I think your confusing self expression and individuality with image, which is the complete opposite of Mac's image devoid of individuality.

you got a point, you got me there....
It's like the poser rebels that wear a worn pair of jeans, but the jeans were factory-worn to have more of a rebel image