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Windows 7: How Microsoft thinks about innovation these days (in five slides)

22 Aug 2011   #11
Coke Robot

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mr pc View Post
my comment was a bit tongue in cheek - but there's a truth to it

according to you Apple polishes turds like champs - there's innovation in that

Hilarious iMac G4 "Window Shopping" Ad - YouTube
Yep!


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23 Aug 2011   #12
Gornot

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

It's funny for me to hear someone say Apple's products are good, when every person having an iPhone curses it for it's auto-correct annoyance, their tablets for the lack of a visible filesystem and USB attachments etc. Apple is a fancy brand, like McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Nike etc. If you have it, you're cool, if you don't, you're not. I could and probably never will see Apple as a serious IT innovator.

I read a great article about Windows 8 a couple of days ago, let me share it with you guys here, too:
"A sort of PC": how Windows 8 will invade tablets (and why it might work)

I suggest you read all 4 pages, 'cause this guy has some very good points (just try to ignore the continuous mentions of the "post PC" term)
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23 Aug 2011   #13
Windows 911

Windows 8 Pro
 
 

legacy7955:

I don't work for Apple or anything.. I don't even own any Apple products, besides a 3 year old iPod nano that was given to me as a gift. I really dislike Apple, they make an outrageous profit on their sub-par products and people continue to buy into it. But this simply shows that they are doing something right, but like what the others have been saying in the thread, it's pretty much the marketing that they do. But you gotta admit, they make a user-experience that can be used by a very broad audience. A 65 year old woman can pick up an iPad and learn how to use it quite quickly. That is why the "majority" (basic consumers) buy their products, hence their popularity.
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23 Aug 2011   #14
zsxd45

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
Hopefully this works out for Microsoft because they've had some awesome concept ideas that either never made it into market or got watered down. I for one, do not want to see another Windows Longhorn epic failure...
Completely agree, but Windows ME was like the Windows Longhorn Fail?
Windows 7 has been a good restoration of people's trust and happiness with Microsoft.
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10 Jun 2012   #15
lkgriffith

Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
 
 

You can bad mouth Apple products if you wish but compared to the monstrous hybrid of small touch screen user interface and large screen, keyboard, mouse interface they stand as a giant. At least they have TWO OS's each fitting its own device metaphor and don't try to force feed one onto the other. Windows 8 is a lousy idea for BOTH kinds of environments. It won't work for me as a developer nor for my customers who have real work to do.

As it stands, I will continue to sell my software for the Windows platform Xp and 7 but not 8. I am switching as soon as possible to the Apple platform. At least they have the wisdom not to try grafting an elephant's trunk onto the chest of a monkey.
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15 Jun 2012   #16
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Microsoft creates new operating system to compete against their own existing operating systems for P/C'S. Except for Windows 8. Windows 8 is to compete with Apple's touchy, pokey, text my mother toys. Which is a very large market. The owner of such a toy doesn't have to learn or know much other than to poke with their finger. If it brakes just through it away and get another one. Kind of like a Bic pen except cost more but a lot less than a P/C or quality laptop.
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15 Jun 2012   #17
lkgriffith

Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
 
 

"Kind of like a Bic pen except cost more but a lot less than a P/C or quality laptop."

Agreed. However, Microsoft has lost sight of the fact one selects the tool that matches the problem to be solved rather than expecting/requiring all problems to be solved with the same tool. A Bic pen is great for writing notes. A sledge hammer is great for breaking rocks. Reverse the tool-problem association and the note won't get written and the rock won't be broken.

The creation of content is a vastly different problem than simply consuming content. In fact, the consumption of content is a micro-subset of its creation. A tool that is focused on ONLY the consumption of content has a design and implementation that makes it's creation impossible. For example if all you can do is read a book you cannot write a book. The tools for writing a book does include being able to read what has been written but the focus is on facilitating the writing.

In Windows 8, the stated purpose is to facilitate the consumption of content on the limited devices of cell phones and tablets. So be it and I agree that it is likely a good thing to do or at least enough people think so to create a market. However, limiting the device used to create the content to that of a viewer is not only stupid, it simply won't work beyond the production of trivial content: tweets, email, photos, video clips. In fact, it can't be used to create the software that supports the consumption of content. At least not with any efficiency and economy of effort.

It is by this argument, I strongly suggest that there needs to be TWO fundamentally different and separate approaches. The first being focused on facilitating the display of content with the creation of trivial content being subordinate and optional. The second being focused on facilitating the creation of the content, which includes the creating the software, with the display of content being necessary but subordinate. Hence, use Windows 7 and it's progeny for a focus on the creation of content and Windows 8, renamed Windows Mobile/Touch or some such, for a focus on the consumption of content.

While it is my opinion that the Apple's human engineering of their UI has some serious flaws, they at least distinguish between the two incommensurate worlds with vastly different requirements. Microsoft is attempting to merge the two environments into an inconsistent puree that won't do either all that well and will likely be a constant frustration for both types of users. I view that as a loosing move and refuse to play that game for much the same reasons that I avoided Vista.
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15 Jun 2012   #18
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Boy lkgriffith I think I understand what your point is. Let me try to break it down if I may.
Microsoft is trying to have a system with a UI that suites the Apple thinking type of person and with enough fondling with the system ti can work like Windows thinking person will use. Is that correct?
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15 Jun 2012   #19
lkgriffith

Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
Boy lkgriffith I think I understand what your point is. Let me try to break it down if I may.
Microsoft is trying to have a system with a UI that suites the Apple thinking type of person and with enough fondling with the system ti can work like Windows thinking person will use. Is that correct?
Almost. Microsoft is trying to compete with the iPhone and iPad by merging Windows Phone and Windows Touch with an incomplete Desktop Windows 7. The Phone and Tablet part is losing big time to Android and IOS, while Windows 7 is rapidly taking ownership of the desktop market. The merger of a failing product with a crippled winning product is most likely a sure loser. The reason being is that it serves neither component of the market at all well.

After many hours of reconfiguring, installing third party software, and installing my version of Program Manager, I have an approximation of a working desktop system in Windows 8. I even have a 40 project (200 k lines) Visual Studio 2005 solution modified so it will mostly compile but not run using Visual Studio Express 2010 on Windows 8. Even then, I feel like I am operating on someone's heart through a 3 mm incision in their belly button. Hence I am not at all sure I can fondle Windows 8 enough to make me willing to use it for a production system.

I am staying with Windows 7 for desktop development and moving toward developing for the iPhone and iPad on an Apple Mac. At least Apple has IOS for their iPhone and iPad and OS/X for the Mac with distinct UI metaphors. Their programming model uses a real language (Objective C) rather than XML with a token interpreter used at run time. I would rather start from scratch than fight what I see as a total loser.
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15 Jun 2012   #20
Gornot

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

I remember some of the first reviews and/or thoughts about Windows 8, most of them being hopeful towards Metro as a much more complete UI in Windows 8. I expected to be able to use Windows 8 with its MetroUI for everything, without even having to switch to the desktop UI... Something like Gnome VS. KDE in Linux, just choose one at login and enjoy.

So I can understand what you're saying, because this somewhat feels like Vista VS. 7 all over again. Vista is a beautiful, sugar candy with cherry on top product, clean, polished, feature-rich and delightful to the eye, but its performance and stability was not good enough - Windows 7, on the other hand, works beautifully but looks ugly as hell, and has nothing near Vista's appeal - it's missing screensavers, Ultimate Extras, that sugar candy glossiness that Aero is supposed to be, instead looking flat and uninteresting... In my eyes both these products are, in their own ways, incomplete.

So now we have MetroUI VS. a redesigned desktop UI, both of with cannot possibly belong together, have completely different environments and looks, neither of which actually look good. The ribbon UI within Explorer is much too bulky to actually be useful, and with the details pane gone, browsing files for me is a small little nightmare. On the other hand, MetroUI is, again, flat, square, and uninteresting despite it's features (some of which are pretty cool).

On Windows 7 I could at least install third-party themes to make it look more decent and appealing to the eye, but double that effort for Windows 8 (assuming there will be a way to more or less heavily tweak the MetroUI interface at all)? No, thank you.
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 How Microsoft thinks about innovation these days (in five slides)




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