Skyrocketing price of mechanical hard drives

Something else that won't help HDD prices even after they dry out the factories in Thailand,

Rare earth prices to stay high as China extends crackdown | Reuters

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legacy7955 said:

Um you might have been correct a decade ago BUT over the past years the general public in the USA has begun to realize that off shoring most manufacturing has severely damaged the middle class, and the ability for the economy to provide new jobs....

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Yes, Americans have realized that offshoring everything has cost us jobs...but it doesn't change the fact that we want to get everything as cheaply as we possibly can. There are very good reasons that most mom and pop retailers are disappearing and we are only left with corporate giants like Walmart and online retailers. In theory, we are willing to pay more, in actuality though, we don't.

Quite so. Things from China are inexpensive because they have a large, cheap labor force.

This is just what America had a century ago. And, after two world wars decimated much of the world, the US was free to produce and sell to the world, using cheap labor.

But the rest of the world did not remain in ruins. China recovered. Japan recovered. Germany recovered. But labor costs in America kept rising, and with that came the expectation of better living. We're now at a point where China has an easy time beating our higher costs.

They've taken over our role. Instead of the US making everything and the rest of the world buying from us ... it's now China making everything and the rest of the world buying from them.

Cheap labor wins.

Will this ruin America? If you have the skills and talent to produce what China cannot, you win. If you don't, you lose. It's not a pretty picture, but that's the way it is.

lhorwinkle said:

Will this ruin America? If you have the skills and talent to produce what China cannot, you win. If you don't, you lose. It's not a pretty picture, but that's the way it is.

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It already has ruined US. The middle class is quickly disappearing and the poverty rate is skyrocketing, we could be a developing nation in a decade if things keep going at the rate they are.

Actually who decided that fake free trade was in our interest anyhow?

Did citizens get to vote about this? No.

There is NO way a developed western nation that can compete with the dictatorship called China. Not unless of course you want your country to look just like China. I certainly do not want that.

I say being tariffs back in a big way...and you force companies to make things here. If nothing else it is good for job creation. And I definitely don't think that we would expect to get our military items from China when we go to war with them.

pparks1 said:

There are very good reasons that most mom and pop retailers are disappearing and we are only left with corporate giants like Walmart and online retailers.

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Wrong. 99.7 percent of all employer firms in this country are small businesses, and they've created 65 percent of net new jobs the past two decades. Wal-Mart used to be a small business, now they employee 1.6 million in the U.S. You can't be a big business without being a small one first. Everyone who starts a company wishes to have a fraction of the success that company has, the hostility against them is ridiculous. It's one of the greatest American success stories.

Colonel Travis said:

Wrong. 99.7 percent of all employer firms in this country are small businesses, and they've created 65 percent of net new jobs the past two decades. Wal-Mart used to be a small business, now they employee 1.6 million in the U.S. You can't be a big business without being a small one first. Everyone who starts a company wishes to have a fraction of the success that company has, the hostility against them is ridiculous. It's one of the greatest American success stories.

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Are you kidding me? Have you noticed that many of the small businesses that started to grow into larger businesses are now simply out of business. Toy stores and such are disappearing like crazy because they cannot compete with Walmart and whatever business practices they employ to keep prices low. Most computer stores like CompUSA and such are now out of businesses because of huge online retailers and uber low prices. Numerous appliance stores and such in our area are all gone now simply because people hit the major retailers like Lowes and Home Depot. The sheer number of small businesses that are now gone is simply shocking. Tons of closed store fronts and family run businesses that had been around for 30+ years are no longer able to stay open.

If it's not obvious, I'm no fan of Walmart. And I'm not the only one, or simply crazy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Walmart
http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html
http://makingchangeatwalmart.org/2011/09/14/economic-harm-to-women/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/666837/posts
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...t-health-insurance-parttime-employees-smokers
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/b...e-health-care-benefits.html?_r=4&ref=business


But Walmart is irrelevant to the price of hard drives. For those who wish to buy their hard drives at Walmart, by all means have at it. I simply choose to shop anywhere else.

pparks1 said:

If it's not obvious, I'm no fan of Walmart. And I'm not the only one, or simply crazy.

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Yeah, that's awesome. Meanwhile, it's the biggest retailer on the planet because tens of millions more don't think like you or those behind the few links you threw up.

The sheer number of small businesses that are now gone is simply shocking.

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The SBA says otherwise. Small businesses aren't going anywhere, I don't care what you think. The data prove you wrong. Some people are definitely hosed, yes. But a lot of that's because the government has screwed the economy. Not big business. A free market isn't stagnant. It's not a promise for lifetime employment. If you can't produce a good or service competitively, you aren't going to make it. It's always been that way, not sure why this is such a shock. You just don't like the way it's happening now, but what's happening now is no different than any other transition. What the hell is wrong with online businesses? I can find so much more crap now, and more cheaply, than I ever could at any previous point in my life. You see that as bad. I don't. Sorry.

Grocery prices have plummeted because of Walmart. I shop HD and Lowes constantly since buying a house, and the mom and pop hardware store charges more for all their stuff. The only reason I go to the mom and pop store is because the people who work there are incredibly knowledgeable and they have some specialty things HD and Lowes don't have. Otherwise, I'm wasting my money.

Just think, many of us geeks knew of this the week before the price spikes started.
There would have been a lot of money to be made from a few pallets of Western Digital drives. Especially the enterprise level stuff. The big companies will pay whatever they have to, once the supply chain dries up.

Colonel Travis said:

Yeah, that's awesome. Meanwhile, it's the biggest retailer on the planet because tens of millions more don't think like you or those behind the few links you threw up.

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well, I don't want to continue arguing about Walmart. It's the biggest retailer in my opinion because people want the lowest prices possible on everything regardless of the costs of achieving those low prices. For those reaping the benefits and saving money...it's a win. For those concerned or apprehensive of the costs...it's not a win.

Colonel Travis said:

Small businesses aren't going anywhere, I don't care what you think. The data prove you wrong. Some people are definitely hosed, yes. But a lot of that's because the government has screwed the economy. Not big business.

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Perhaps the fallout is more regionalized. I am in Michigan, just outside of Metro Detroit and small business here has not fared well. We used to have lots of hobby shops, bike stores, computer shops, mower and power equipment shops, electronics stores, etc. So many are now gone.

Colonel Travis said:

The only reason I go to the mom and pop store is because the people who work there are incredibly knowledgeable and they have some specialty things HD and Lowes don't have. Otherwise, I'm wasting my money.

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Yes, it's the service and support that I miss from these small shops. We have given up so much in terms of rock bottom prices and I think it's sad. I've got a bike shop that I visit and while I know that I can get my parts cheaper online....I want to see these guys in my area who put their money on the line succeed. They are so much more knowledgeable too on what works best and what is best investment per dollar. I just don't find "average person" reviews on websites to paint a really good picture.


I don't profess to be an expert on this subject, but in looking at the overall economy, the housing market, the healthcare situation, the unemployement rate, the national debt, the profits of big business, and the wars that we are engaged in just seem to indicate that some things might not be as wonderful as we think. It certainly isn't the American dream that I was told about growing up. And my parents who are now in their 60's and struggling and most likely won't be able to financially afford retirement simply arent' pulling me aside to tell me about how wonderful their "golden years" are.

pparks1 said:

And my parents who are now in their 60's and struggling and most likely won't be able to financially afford retirement simply arent' pulling me aside to tell me about how wonderful their "golden years" are.

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Sorry to hear that, truly. They're not the only ones in a bind, and I'm not saying that to lessen the impact for you or them, I'm saying it because it genuinely sucks.

Colonel Travis said:

Sorry to hear that, truly. They're not the only ones in a bind, and I'm not saying that to lessen the impact for you or them, I'm saying it because it genuinely sucks.

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Yeah, it really truly does suck.

My neighbor was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago. He was about 10 years from retirement and had everything all lined up. Well, he lost his job, and doctors won't release him to go back to work. So, he's paying a ton each month for Cobra, had to sell some of his valuables, drained his 401k to keep his mortgage current and now is basically stuck in his small home and has next to nothing left to retire on.

My dad lost his job a couple of months ago due to downsizing and having the least amount of seniority in his position (only 13 years). He's 62, and my mom is 59. My mom doesn't have a full time job with benefits, but only works part-time. They cannot move to medicare and my mom isn't eligible yet for Social Security. My dad's Cobra insurance payments are over $1,000 a month...but they cannot go without it as my mom has been sick and in the hospital now for almost 7 weeks and has had 3 surgeries in the past 6 months. It's great for my dad that he is out of work and can stay with my mom at the hospital...but at the end of the day....he's going to have to try to find a new job with benefits from an employer willing to take on somebody who is only 2-3 years away from retirement age. Thank goodness he got quite a bit of money out of his 401k before it totally tanked, but i obviously still have concerns that what is left won't be enough.

With both examples above, these are people who worked hard, did what needed to be done, took care and raised a family and tried to live the American dream. They didn't take handouts, they didn't weasel the system, they didn't abuse welfare, they haven't begged for disability...they just worked hard and did their best to get buy. It truly is sad to see how they have been rewarded for their efforts.

Hi there

Sorry to read the above -- but the US Political system and its welfare options are the responsibility of the US electorate -- maybe in Europe even though the taxes are higher the Social Security and Welfare arrangements - especially medical provisions are a lot more mature -- but we have to pay a high price for the privilege.

Reading your previous post and some of the others in this thread I tend to think the higher price we pay in Europe is worth it.

Getting back on track (I'm sure especially in all sorts of I.T we are painfully aware of the pitfalls and failed business models that "Offshoring" has caused a lot of us directly) I've found that HDD prices are still remarkably cheap --even in such places as the UK's COMET or PC WORLD stores.

In any case it's easy to buy a cheap HDD USB container (7 USD or even less for laptop type HDD's)

You can use these say for backing up images, storing pictures / music etc etc and instead of tossing the disks when buying a new computer just use as external USB HDD's,

Memory is also rediculously cheap currently too -- I upgraded my somy VAIO to 8GB RAM -- it's cheaper than an SSD (much much cheaper) and once the OS has booted the performance difference isn't as much as you think --since most of the W7 OS is now in RAM.

Of course if you are huge photoshop type of users then scratch files on an SSD does make a big difference but for typical users an upgrade of memory might be a better option than by using SSD's.

(Europe also of course has problems --however it's easier fixing Banks and the Finance system than trying to introduce a decent Healthcare system -- not sure if Europe could even attempt to do this now if we didn't already have them - so we at least have something to be greatful to our ancestors for).


Cheers
jimbo

Drive prices are not "skyrocketing".
So hold the overstatements and cliches.
It's just a temporary price increase.

lhorwinkle said:

Drive prices are not "skyrocketing".

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Really, because 2TB drives have tripled in price at NewEgg in 2 weeks.

lhorwinkle said:

It's just a temporary price increase.

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Yes, but speculation is that prices will remain high for at least 6 months and it make take nearly a year to get back down to normal. So, it's temporary in the grand scheme of things...but it's going to be awhile.

Thinking much more on this, I truly do not believe these price hikes will be "temporary" as some have claimed here... because of this disaster, and finding out how many corporations and even civilians will "pay anything" to get what they need and/or want and RIGHT NOW... they'll milk it as long as they possibly can and keep the prices "sweet" FOR THEM. In fact, just exactly like how the employers of big businesses are milking the economic situation to halt all new hiring and to even lay off their "fat", despite making the same or even more money per year as they've always had before and all the while, giving themselves and all the other high and mighty titans a very hefty raise and bonuses - Union or not (and I cite UPS's Scott Davis here, who's been ordering job cuts and hiring freezes for the last four years, while at the same time getting up on a podium and saying that UPS is making RECORD PROFITS DESPITE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS).



As for offshoring all industry and production in the US... I guess you have to be on the short end of that stick to truly "get it" and where this is all headed. It's not OK, it is not "fine" and it is not working - literally. I know that at least for those in my age group, 18 - 25, half of my generation are completely out of work (I myself have been unsuccessfully seeking stable, year-round work for the past FIVE YEARS, straight out of High School) and it is because there are massive hiring freezes, layoffs and entire industries and sectors of jobs being removed from our workforce here that we're unable to even make a start. As for whatever is left, it seems to be mostly going to Immigrants (legal, but also mostly illegal). Seems that all that is left here at home is entry-level, minimum wage, part-time jobs (that nobody can live independently off of, unless they didn't eat, drive or use any utilities) and everyone from every education and experience bracket are fighting each other for and over them. 2,000 people for every 100 jobs (at least here in CA): that is the reality. Also, I do not believe the BS that China and other Nations producing our products for our Businesses solves anything, nor that it is cheaper. It takes huge ocean liners to get all of that cheaply made and poisonous crap over here, and that means millions of gallons of gasoline and the price of all of that gasoline is tacked onto the end-product prices of all those goods coming in. Money that should instead be going into paying American workers to make our own products for our own businesses (small or large), right here at home (and this also applies to every other Nation, not just us Americans - just using America as the example because it is a much larger problem for us right now)!

But I guess it is going to take EVERYONE getting the raw end of this deal (and it will in the not so distant future), before EVERYONE will be able to "get it" and share the same "this freaking sucks, we need our jobs back at home!" mentality. If that doesn't happen and we don't make our jobs come back home, we're done. Those wheels are already in motion as I type this. Why do you think we and most of the other Nations are failing right now? No industry, just almost totally consumer-based economy. That's the key of the entire world-wide crisis. As we all become poorer, China and the rest become richer and more successful and more powerful. To me, the people letting it happen because it doesn't affect them (the super rich) and because the prices SEEM to be cheaper (the middle class) are just criminal.


BTW, as I've said before, if they'd have kept production here at home... this HDD crisis would never have happened. It's pure, straight-up Karma: for everyone. Them for moving production out of the Nation they grew so large and successful in (a nice way to repay their start-up Nation!), and us for letting them do it without so much as a single complaint (until now, I hope)!


Apologies for rambling on, just wanted to get that off of my chest.

Thank God I took advantage of the dirt cheap prices in the last year at Frys and I've collected 7 external drives of various sizes that will hold me over during this crisis of price and supply.

lhorwinkle said:

Drive prices are not "skyrocketing".
So hold the overstatements and cliches.
It's just a temporary price increase.

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Temporary/permanent, no difference here, prices are rising sharply and quickly, if you don't like the term "skyrocketing". A year ago I bought a 500GB Seagte HDD from Newegg for $49, today the 500GB drives range from $109-$149. I had no idea about it until I was shopping for a SSD and wandered into the HDD pages. :shock:

EvilOzzmess said:

Thinking much more on this, I truly do not believe these price hikes will be "temporary" as some have claimed here... because of this disaster, and finding out how many corporations and even civilians will "pay anything" to get what they need and/or want and RIGHT NOW... they'll milk it as long as they possibly can and keep the prices "sweet" FOR THEM.

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You don't understand competition.

When the supply crunch ends, theose sellers who keep their prices high will be undersold by those who don't, losing market share in the process. That's supply and demand.

Corporations and civilians will NOT "pay anything" to get what they want or need. When prices rise (without a drop-off in supply), demand drops ... forcing prices down.

This is elementary stuff. Economists know it. Marketing people know it. Everyone should.

EvilOzzmess said:

Also, I do not believe the BS that China and other Nations producing our products for our Businesses solves anything, nor that it is cheaper. It takes huge ocean liners to get all of that cheaply made and poisonous crap over here, and that means millions of gallons of gasoline and the price of all of that gasoline is tacked onto the end-product prices of all those goods coming in.

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But it's still cheaper to make (most) things over there.

Wonder why refrigerators are still made in the USA? Because a typical, mid-priced refrigerator weighs about 300 lbs, right? And it sells for perhaps $800. Consider the shipping cost across the Pacific!

Now, ship a crate from China to California, a crate the same size as a refrigerator, shipped across the ocean at about the same cost as shipping a refrigerator. That crate could hold 1000 cell phones, bulk-packed ... which would then retail for $50,000 to $400,000, depending on the model. Divide the crate's shipping cost by 1000.
1. The per unit shipping cost is quite low.
2. The shipping cost represents a much smaller proportion of the retail selling price.

So shipping small, lightweight valuable items across the ocean is cheap.

That doesn't work for big, heavy low-value items like refrigerators (and stoves and large air conditioners). So those are still made over here.

We really need to be careful when making conclusions about costs. Businesses are KEENLY aware of costs, constantly evaluating and re-evaluating. If something is made in China, that's because it's cheaper to make it there and ship it here.

jimbo45 said:

In any case it's easy to buy a cheap HDD USB container (7 USD or even less for laptop type HDD's)

You can use these say for backing up images, storing pictures / music etc etc and instead of tossing the disks when buying a new computer just use as external USB HDD's,

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That's what I'm planning in my next purchase (and it was fairly cheap, just $12 USD/$150 MX)... but seing this thread, I might wait a while and save some extra money to upgrade my HDD, In the mean time I bought a HDD Case, so I can reutilize my current 250 GB WD and store more things externally

See ya!!!