Windows 7 Forums

Welcome to Windows 7 Forums. Our forum is dedicated to helping you find support and solutions for any problems regarding your Windows 7 PC be it Dell, HP, Acer, Asus or a custom build. We also provide an extensive Windows 7 tutorial section that covers a wide range of tips and tricks.


Windows 7: SSDs have a 'bleak' future, researchers say

11 Apr 2012   #121
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
Distorted Questions

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by fseal View Post
Yes but you don't NEED a 1 TB SSD to get 90% of the benefit of having one. At least not in any machine that can have more than one drive... In fact SSDs may /never/ catch up to spinners in $$/GB. But that doesn't mean that they aren't insanely useful and can;t speed 90% of your daily operations up by 1000%!!!

And it is true that 99% of everyone poo-pooing SSDs are people that have never tried one and seen for themselves what a jaw dropping difference even a 120Gig can make on your system..
That's fair enough.

If I were to get an SSD, I would get a "small" one to install my operating systems on.

I still wouldn't pay more than $40 for a 120 GB SSD.
The cheapest SSD listed by my parts supplier is ~$160.
That's another 2 TB HDD (even at today's inflated prices).

A lot of SSD fans are proclaiming the end of HDDs.
If they are correct, then I'm going to have to spend thousands of dollars, to get storage equivalent to what I have now (which cost me less than $300).

I couldn't do it based on the equipment my supplier has in stock.
It would take 20 of their largest SSDs to equal my 3 HDDs.
It would cost over $8000 to buy the SSDs (even if I could attach them to my MB).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by profdlp View Post
So how would the critics have phrased the questions?
...
I think I can guess where the two "ain't got/don't want" votes came from.
You'd probably be wrong.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by profdlp View Post
You know what? You either have one, or you don't. You either like them, or you don't. If that seems dodgy to anyone, start your own stinkin' poll.
Survey results can easily be distorted by the wording of the question (from "Yes Minister").
Quote:
Sir Humphrey Appleby: [demonstrating how public surveys can reach opposite conclusions] Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Do you think there is lack of discipline and vigorous training in our Comprehensive Schools?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Do you think young people welcome some structure and leadership in their lives?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Do they respond to a challenge?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Might you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?
Bernard Woolley: Er, I might be.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes or no?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Of course, after all you've said you can't say no to that. On the other hand, the surveys can reach opposite conclusions.

[survey two]
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the danger of war?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Are you unhappy about the growth of armaments?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Do you think there's a danger in giving young people guns and teaching them how to kill?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Do you think it's wrong to force people to take arms against their will?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Would you oppose the reintroduction of conscription?
Bernard Woolley: Yes.
[does a double-take]
Sir Humphrey Appleby: There you are, Bernard. The perfectly balanced sample.



My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
11 Apr 2012   #122
profdlp

Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
...Survey results can easily be distorted...
Trust me, it's an election year over here and there is plenty of evidence of that to be found.

Serious question: Do you think this poll was distorted? If so, how could it have been improved?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Apr 2012   #123
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by profdlp View Post
#1 is what virtually all SSD owners are currently using, including myself.

(In case my hastily composed list of choices wasn't clear, choice #1 is made up of two or more drives, like what I have listed in "My System Specs".)

I think the point of the article must be for Enterprise-type applications where big, fast and easily configurable is ideal and a multiple-drive solution (Boot SSD + Mechanical Storage) is undesirable. For home users, run everything off C: and store everything on D: . I used to do it that way pre-SSD using a single mechanical drive with two partitions. It's just as easy to set up with two separate drives, one of each type.

Hi there
People seem always to think "Enterprise" applications are large and complex.

Maybe so but on the USERS workstations usually people are runninng "Bog standard" Office type apps (EXCEL, Powerpoint etc) .

There ARE large enterprise applications --things like SAP etc but these are normally run on large server systems probably running UNIX or some variant of it or Ms SQL server -- the User connects to these via a front end GUI which isn't CPU heavy at all even though the Back end system is !!.

Home users are much more likely to be running intensive stuff --Video editing, Photoshop. Gaming etc etc.

However even in the workplace SSD's on the company laptops are fine -- and capacity doesn't matter because users don't store stuff on the laptop directly but on Network drives (oe external storage to take home etc).

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

12 Apr 2012   #124
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
Depends on what you wanted

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by profdlp View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
...Survey results can easily be distorted...
Trust me, it's an election year over here and there is plenty of evidence of that to be found.

Serious question: Do you think this poll was distorted? If so, how could it have been improved?
I hope that "Yes Minister" scene (It is a funny show) indicated that the wording of the question you ask, determines the response you get.

IMO, the questions were asking for "yes" or "no" answers.
That is probably exactly what you intended.

Quote:
3) How many people who do not have an SSD want one?
From my perspective that isn't a simple "yes" or "no" question.

Q - Do you want an SSD at $2/GB?
A - No.

Q - Do you want an SSD at $0.10/GB?
A - Where do I get it?

Quote:
4) How many people who do not have an SSD have no plans to ever get one?
From my perspective this isn't a simple "yes" or "no" question, either.

Q - Will you ever buy an SSD, if they remain at $2/GB?
A - No.

Q - Will you ever buy an SSD, if they drop to $0.10/GB?
A - You bet!

* those were just example prices.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Apr 2012   #125
fseal

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

Once again it really isn't about the $$$/Gig

SSDs do NOT have to be data storage drives to have tremendous worth all on their own. In fact AS a simple data storage drive they really don't shine unless that data is a multi gig database file, or a movie server with 30 simultaneous streams running. It's as an OS and program/cache drive that they are most useful. Given that, anything above about 120/160 gig is probably NOT worth the $$$ but at 160 and down they very much are.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Apr 2012   #126
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

For most any SSD wouldn't be in use for storage to start with being applied for host/boot/OS use. As for the price vs size factor that depends on the individual user there.

Some will only see a 120gb drive on a laptop where browsing and checking the mail is the general use. For others who run many programs or programs that tend to see large files or volumes of small to mid sized(depends on what you might refer to as) 160gb would be a bit cramped.

As for being a simple yes or no type question the answer to that would be no it isn't. The same could be said now for any USB 3.0 devices where you now have a pair of 3.0 ports on a new board but see the high prices on something like a 3.0 flash drive. A 16gb 2.0 model sells in a retail store for $40 and less online while an online vendor offering the same 16gb 2.0 flash drive for $30 or less even will charge $99- for the same 3.0 flash drive.

The other factor that comes into play and why most would wait to see prices fall sharply would reliability ad durability. Who will eventually start manufacturing them besides... mostly companies already manufacturing pc memory with exceptions like Hitachi. How about the leading drive manufacturers like Seagate, WD, and others? Seagate has been focused lately on a change of the coating used on drive platters for their mechanical drives to see a vast increase in drive capacity.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Apr 2012   #127
carwiz

Windows 7 Pro-x64
 
 

Every user is different. I can't imagine storing video, recorded TV, audio files and massive amounts of photos on a SSD. Recorded TV files can range for 3-12GB each. It wouldn't take long to fill a pricey SSD with a night of recording. For the most part, speed is of no concern for these files and don't warrant a SSD. That's why I'll never be without a spinner or two. But I'll never be without a SSD for a system disk either.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Apr 2012   #128
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Well for the tuner card here also used for capturing video from external input onto the host/OS drive even while being temporarily seen chewing up drive space fast what would you do with a 160gb SSD installed? The files wouldn't be directed to the host drive by any means but a secondary storage.

Now start adding in a few other "biggies" like VMs(several at times), an increasing collection of image files you maintain, etc. and what happened to that 160gb? Long gone is the obvious answer! Even a 250gb drive could be filled rather fast thus the need for a larger OS drive.

Gee now you are looking at a 512gb SSD?! Ready to spend the "do re' me" for the larger SSD? Not really!

Are you now starting to get the bigger picture? The type of build and daily use by the user can make or break the idea of rushing at the latest when it simply wouldn't work out. For the geek who has the "must have that edge" performance gain and runs a small machine to begin with the SDD holds the benefit there for that higher price tag.

For the novice first time user buying the OEM machine the drive it comes with is all they would use. And for those dealing with large files or large volumes of files where drive space is the essential the SSD poses limitations. High prices and availability of larger capacity drives especially the often needed larger OS drive simply places the SSD in the unsuitable catagory there regardless of any performance edge. Practicality vs Performance weighs in.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Apr 2012   #129
windude99

Windows 7 Professional x64 Service Pack 1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Well for the tuner card here also used for capturing video from external input onto the host/OS drive even while being temporarily seen chewing up drive space fast what would you do with a 160gb SSD installed? The files wouldn't be directed to the host drive by any means but a secondary storage.

Now start adding in a few other "biggies" like VMs(several at times), an increasing collection of image files you maintain, etc. and what happened to that 160gb? Long gone is the obvious answer! Even a 250gb drive could be filled rather fast thus the need for a larger OS drive.

Gee now you are looking at a 512gb SSD?! Ready to spend the "do re' me" for the larger SSD? Not really!

Are you now starting to get the bigger picture? The type of build and daily use by the user can make or break the idea of rushing at the latest when it simply wouldn't work out. For the geek who has the "must have that edge" performance gain and runs a small machine to begin with the SDD holds the benefit there for that higher price tag.

For the novice first time user buying the OEM machine the drive it comes with is all they would use. And for those dealing with large files or large volumes of files where drive space is the essential the SSD poses limitations. High prices and availability of larger capacity drives especially the often needed larger OS drive simply places the SSD in the unsuitable catagory there regardless of any performance edge. Practicality vs Performance weighs in.
On my pc, I have a 120GB ssd for OS, programs, and user data. I have 2 1tb hard drives for vms and backups. It does depend on the usage. My setup is perfet for me, but may not be perfect for someone else.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Apr 2012   #130
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

I can easily agree with that. Here I manage two Sata II 1tb drives for Host and Beta OS application and testing system image backups made with the second to insure integrity.

The other two Sata 3 drives are the primary storage and system image, VM, and other odd storage which could include storing an image from one of the laptops as well as the desktop. The problem now seen of course with the two S3 drives is running out of room where a 3rd external 1tb drive can be used to pick up the slack there a bit.

Now for someone contemplating whether to or not to buy an SSD, and not actually so new a technology as you might think but has been around for decades in fact, you may to look over the latest article on SSDs seen at ZDNet. Is it time to buy that SSD? | ZDNet
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 SSDs have a 'bleak' future, researchers say




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search




Similar help and support threads
Thread Forum
Intel paints bleak picture for Windows tablets vs. Android
Source A Guy
News
Outlook is bleak
Hi Folks. All has been copacetic for a long time now until problems with Outlook - which is my primary email facility - have finally begun to irritate me. I have it set to look for mail every few minutes but half the time it comes up with an error. When I click the send/receive button the window...
Browsers & Mail
Interesting development for future SSDs
Flash memory chip built out of single-atom-thick components | Ars Technica
Hardware & Devices
Think you know SSDs? Think again.
Read the entire (long!) article over at AnandTech: The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ Also, per fakeasdf in the post http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/6203-think-you-know-ssds-think-again-5.html#post265077 be sure to read the followup. Here is a snippet: ...
Hardware & Devices
SSDs
SSD's intrigue the hell out of me. i just read this article The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News and now im not so sure I want to get one. i would use it for my OS and programs only, i already have a 1TB drive for...
Hardware & Devices


Our Sites

Site Links

About Us

Find Us

Windows 7 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 7" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

© Designer Media Ltd

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:25.

Twitter Facebook Google+



Windows 7 Forums

Seven Forums Android App Seven Forums IOS App