| Windows 7: SSDs have a 'bleak' future, researchers say |
17 Feb 2012
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#21 | | Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8 RP VM, Linux Mint Debian 2nd OS HD- 7 Pro x64 second case New England |

Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister For me, it is a moot question, because until the prices of SSDs falls drastically, I shall never own one...large or small. For me the option isn't even listed but already put to use! Instead of memory driven internal drives I frequently use the larger mechanical internally which provides work space as well as OS and storage/backup.
For external the memory driven usb flash drives provide some other options besides being pocket sized. A 16gb or 32gb model allows me to run the "other guy's OS" or transfer data between machines and carry in a belt holder at the same time for far less while still seeing some interesting prices on the even larger flash drives no doubt.
I did have the x64 7 installed on one of two Sata 3 drives but ended using them for storage/backup while using a pair of Sata IIs for OS purposes for far less on all 4 HDs over what you would pay for just one larger capacity SSD. Yet I'm not suffering performance wise either. | My System Specs |
| OS Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8 RP VM, Linux Mint Debian 2nd OS HD- 7 Pro x64 second case CPU AMD Phenom II X4 975 Deneb 3.6ghz - 965 on new mini tower Motherboard Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4 Memory Kingston Hyper X DDR3 1600 1.5v 16gb - Mushkin on 2nd build Graphics Card MSI HD Radeon 5750 1gb - MSI HD Radeon 6450 on mini tower Sound Card Creative Labs X-Fi XtremeGamer - Realtek onooard 2nd case Monitor(s) Displays 2 x Acer P191W 19" widesscreen - HP 20" widescreen mini towe Screen Resolution 1440x900 native - 1600x1024 on 7 Pro x64 build Keyboard Microsoft Recusa Razor - MS Comfort 3000 on second build Mouse MS Trackball Explorer - A4TECH dual scroll wheel trackball PSU Corsair 750TX - primary / Corsair CX600 - second Case Antec 900-2 - SSD compatible / NZXT Vulcan mini tower Cooling Zalman CNPS9900A Hard Drives Primary Ultimate x64 build-
WD Black Edition 1tb Sata 6.0 = 2
WD Black Edition 1tb Sata 3.0 = 2 (OS drives)
WD 1tb Green Power sata = 2 1 external
usb flash drives = 18
Second 7 Pro x64 mini tower-
WD Caviar SE 500gb sata II single drive presen Internet Speed 30mbps upgrade - primary hard wired - mini tower usb WiFi |
17 Feb 2012
|
#22 | | |
I too use the option #1. I never thought of it in terms of price per GB, but for my 60GB SSD I paid significantly less money than for my previous 1 TB purchase. I put my OS on the SSD and the system is noticeably faster.
Now, the main problem with the SSD is not shrinking but limited lifetime. You can't simply overwrite the SSD over and over again. This is the reason why I put certain folders (not simply storage) on the usual HDD.
Shrinking however has a very natural limit that nobody is going to the break - a typical distance between atoms in a solid is 0.5 nm. So even if you figure out a way to make memory bits out of single atoms, you still would not be able to shrink your devices beyond that limit. 6.5 nm is not too far from it, so I don't see the point of that objection. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Dell Inspiron 530 OS Windows 7 Ultimate (x64) CPU Q6600 Memory 8 GB Graphics Card ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT Monitor(s) Displays Samsung Syncmaster P2450 Screen Resolution 1920x1080 Hard Drives Samsung HD103UJ
Samsung HD501LJ Internet Speed 25 Mb/s |
17 Feb 2012
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#23 | | |
I just want a mechnical drive with huge amounts of cache storage such that writing huge files results in instant return to the app and destage at the device's relative leisure. I've never played with, for example, getting a large, let's say 30 MB file in word and hitting "save" and seeing how long it takes for the controller to get the data (i.e. cache policy allows asynchronous writing). Then make the file larger than disk controller cache storage and see how much mechanical delay is now introduced. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Custom OS Windows 7 CPU AMD Phenom II X2 (dual-core) Motherboard GA-MA785GM-US2H Memory 4G Graphics Card integrated ATI HD 4200 Sound Card integrated Monitor(s) Displays Samsung 24" Screen Resolution 1920x1080 Keyboard Microsoft Digital Media Pro Mouse Logitech WIRED! PSU Ultra X4 500W Case Ultra X-blaster Hard Drives 1 SATA (750GB, 32MB cache, 7200 RPM)
1 IDE (80GB, 8MB cache, 7200 RPM)
1 SSD (Intel 320, 120GB, installed but not activated) Internet Speed 15 Mbps FIOS |
17 Feb 2012
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#24 | | Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8 RP VM, Linux Mint Debian 2nd OS HD- 7 Pro x64 second case New England |
What I have to look at here is not something like gaining an edge as far as gaming performance having the OS running a little faster due to the two different types of drives but the need for drives that will handle loads like video capturing moving volumes of data and for a second identical drive the testing portion of multiple OS installs being likely for varying setups.
Wipe a test drive over and over again depending on need is what that would amount to as well as having plenry of drive space available for C is another factor to weigh in here. For testing the W8 Preview which will be here soon enough I would also look at the backup features which would include full system images being created from and restored to the test drive itself.
Drive wipe after drive wipe is what you wouldn't want for an SSD however from the information is pointing at. Durability over speed gain is what that comes down to. For someone else it would be an OS drive for performance with a mechanical for storage. Here I would compare that to a work horse drive where the mechanical drive will take the pounding over a lengthy period of time as opposed to an SSD failing from being overworked? | My System Specs | | OS Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8 RP VM, Linux Mint Debian 2nd OS HD- 7 Pro x64 second case CPU AMD Phenom II X4 975 Deneb 3.6ghz - 965 on new mini tower Motherboard Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4 Memory Kingston Hyper X DDR3 1600 1.5v 16gb - Mushkin on 2nd build Graphics Card MSI HD Radeon 5750 1gb - MSI HD Radeon 6450 on mini tower Sound Card Creative Labs X-Fi XtremeGamer - Realtek onooard 2nd case Monitor(s) Displays 2 x Acer P191W 19" widesscreen - HP 20" widescreen mini towe Screen Resolution 1440x900 native - 1600x1024 on 7 Pro x64 build Keyboard Microsoft Recusa Razor - MS Comfort 3000 on second build Mouse MS Trackball Explorer - A4TECH dual scroll wheel trackball PSU Corsair 750TX - primary / Corsair CX600 - second Case Antec 900-2 - SSD compatible / NZXT Vulcan mini tower Cooling Zalman CNPS9900A Hard Drives Primary Ultimate x64 build-
WD Black Edition 1tb Sata 6.0 = 2
WD Black Edition 1tb Sata 3.0 = 2 (OS drives)
WD 1tb Green Power sata = 2 1 external
usb flash drives = 18
Second 7 Pro x64 mini tower-
WD Caviar SE 500gb sata II single drive presen Internet Speed 30mbps upgrade - primary hard wired - mini tower usb WiFi |
17 Feb 2012
|
#25 | | Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2 Westlake, Ohio |

Quote: Originally Posted by mickey megabyte Quote: "it's not going to be viable to go past 6.5nm ... 2024 is the end." hmm, there are a whole 12 years of technological development to go until then.
in three years time, someone will invent an ssd super-duperlizer, then in five years that will get superseded by a mega-wegalizer etc etc - probably.
would you have listened to hard drive manufacturers a dozen years ago if they had said "well, 5 gigs looks like the limit - we'll never get past that.", or ram manufacturers saying "we're never going to be able to make a 64 meg ram stick." Exactly.
At my first computer job I remember my boss (who was a really sharp guy) saying that 4GB was the absolute top due to the limits of FAT drive structure.
Then some bright lads created a drive structure with two FAT tables. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Self OS Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2 CPU Main - Core i7 2600K; 2nd - Core i7 920 Motherboard Main - Asus P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3; 2nd - Gigabyte GA-EX58-UDR3 Memory Main - 16GB Corsair Vengeance; 2nd - 12GB Corsair Vengeance Graphics Card Main - XFX Radeon 6870 1GB; 2nd - XFX Radeon 4870 1GB Sound Card Both: Onboard Realtek Azalia Monitor(s) Displays Main - Hann 25" + I-INC 25" + Acer 23"; 2nd - Upgrading Soon Screen Resolution Main - 1920x1080 (All Three Monitors); 2nd - Upgrading Soon Keyboard Main - Razer Reclusa; 2nd - Old MS Keyboard Mouse Main - Logitech MX Revolution; 2nd - Old MS Mouse PSU Main - OCZ 600W Modular; 2nd - OCZ 600W Case Main - Thermaltake Element G; 2nd - NZXT something or other Cooling Main - Corsair H80; 2nd - Prolimatech Megahalems Hard Drives Main - (1) Crucial M4 128GB (Boot)
Main - (1) Seagate 2TB 64MB Cache (Data)
Main - (1) Seagate 2TB 64MB Cache (Data Backup)
2nd - (1) Intel X25-M SSD 80GB (Boot)
2nd - (3) Seagate 1TB 32MB Cache (Data Backup)
2nd - (1) Seagate 320GB (Because) Internet Speed 20Mbps Time-Warner Cable |
17 Feb 2012
|
#26 | | Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Windows XP SP3, Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) Adelaide |
Stock Market Idiots 
Quote: Originally Posted by fseal They may have been 4-5 years ago, the first batches were horrible with reliability, but today's SSDs have a metric crap ton of tricks and over commitment of ram to handle these very well known and understood problems. NO ONE knows about these problems more than the people manufacturing these drives. That's probably true.
However given the current economic model (i.e. your assets are worthless, only your share price matters) there's no way that they could/would mention it, as the stock market idiots would instantly panic and destroy the company's share price. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number n/a OS Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Windows XP SP3, Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) CPU AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz Motherboard ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3 Memory 8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2) Graphics Card ATI Radeon HD6450 Sound Card Realtek? Monitor(s) Displays Samsung S23B350 Screen Resolution 1920x1080 Mouse Wired Optical Case Tower Hard Drives Western Digital 1 TB (SATA), Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA) Internet Speed DSL Other Info Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24 |
17 Feb 2012
|
#27 | | |
I think SSD will be supplanted by some new faster technology before HDD ever catch up in any way. So in that sense they are doomed. | My System Specs | | Computer type PC/Desktop System Manufacturer/Model Number Home built (GeneO industries)/Model 3 OS Windows 7 64 bit SP1 CPU i5 2500k @ 4.5 GHz, 1.264V 124 GFlop (IBT with AVX) Motherboard ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 Memory 16GB (4GBx4) 1600MHz G.skill Ripjaws X 8-8-8-24 Graphics Card MSI GTX 660 Ti PE/OC, 2GB 7160 MHz DDR5 clock, 1228 Mhz Core Sound Card Onboard Realtek HD Monitor(s) Displays NEC Spectraview 2490WUXi-SV Screen Resolution 1920 x 1200 Keyboard HP Wireless Mouse HP wireless PSU Seasonic X-850 (2012 KM3 model) Case Fractal Design "Define R3" Cooling CM TPC 812 push/pull, 3 120mm, 2 TY-140 case fans Hard Drives Samsung 128GB 840 Pro SSD (System), Crucial 128GB M4 SSD, 2x WD Caviar 1TB Black internal (data), 1x WD Blue 6Gb/s 1TB Internal, 1x 2TB eSata WD20EARS Green, 2x 500GB Seagate external USB, 1x 350GB exte Internet Speed 27.8 Mb/s down, 5.6 Mb/s up Other Info USB 3.0 x4 , SATA III x4, eSATA x3, SATA II x4, USB 2.0 x8. 2 Samsung DVD R/W drives.
WEI: CPU 7.7, Memory 7.8, Graphics 7.9, Disk 7.9 |
17 Feb 2012
|
#28 | | Windows 7 Pro-x64 South Texas |
And who said the drives have to get smaller? The drives are small enough now that manufacturers could revert back to the 3.5" format and easily quadruple the capacity with current technology. And think about what these drives could do if they had integrated RAID-type logic or multi-channel processing like RAM. The mechanical drives will never catch up in speed or rate of capacity increase. They have magnetic recording limitations similar to the SSD's electro-capacitive storage limits. 1TB HDDs were hitting the market about the same time as 20GB SSDs (About 5 years ago). Comparing rate of capacity increases in SSDs, how many 25TB HDDs do you see on the market?
There has always been a dividing line between workstations/desktops and laptops/netbooks and their usage. As long as this line remains, there's little reason for all SSD to become nano-drives. And 1 and 2TB SSDs have been around for quite a while. Just not within reach of the home crowd. | My System Specs | | Computer type PC/Desktop System Manufacturer/Model Number Built 2/11/2011 OS Windows 7 Pro-x64 CPU i7-2600 3.4GHz - 3.8GHz Turbo Motherboard Intel DH67BL-B3 Memory 8Gb - 2x4GB, Muskin 991770 PC3-1333 Graphics Card Integrated Intel HD 2000 Sound Card Integrated Intel 10.1 HD, RealTek ALC892 Monitor(s) Displays Asus LCD VH222H, Haier HL24XSL2a Screen Resolution 1920x1080, 1920x1080 Keyboard Logitech EX100 Wireless Mouse Logitech EX100 Wireless PSU Seasonic 650W 80+ Gold Modular Case Rosewill Defender Cooling Stock CPU, Four 120mm case fans, PCH fan added Hard Drives Crucial C300-128Gb,
Western Digital WD5002AALX - 500Gb,
Western Digital WD7501AALS - 750Gb Internet Speed 2.5/1.5 Mbs Antivirus Microsoft Security Essentials Browser Microsoft Internet Explorer 10 Other Info Antec Veris Premier-Multimedia IR Station,
Cyber Accoustics-3602 Speakers,
AFT XM-5U Card Reader,
Hauppauge TV-HVR-2250,
Sony LX300 USB Turntable |
18 Feb 2012
|
#29 | | Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2 Westlake, Ohio |
Excellent points, carwiz! | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Self OS Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2 CPU Main - Core i7 2600K; 2nd - Core i7 920 Motherboard Main - Asus P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3; 2nd - Gigabyte GA-EX58-UDR3 Memory Main - 16GB Corsair Vengeance; 2nd - 12GB Corsair Vengeance Graphics Card Main - XFX Radeon 6870 1GB; 2nd - XFX Radeon 4870 1GB Sound Card Both: Onboard Realtek Azalia Monitor(s) Displays Main - Hann 25" + I-INC 25" + Acer 23"; 2nd - Upgrading Soon Screen Resolution Main - 1920x1080 (All Three Monitors); 2nd - Upgrading Soon Keyboard Main - Razer Reclusa; 2nd - Old MS Keyboard Mouse Main - Logitech MX Revolution; 2nd - Old MS Mouse PSU Main - OCZ 600W Modular; 2nd - OCZ 600W Case Main - Thermaltake Element G; 2nd - NZXT something or other Cooling Main - Corsair H80; 2nd - Prolimatech Megahalems Hard Drives Main - (1) Crucial M4 128GB (Boot)
Main - (1) Seagate 2TB 64MB Cache (Data)
Main - (1) Seagate 2TB 64MB Cache (Data Backup)
2nd - (1) Intel X25-M SSD 80GB (Boot)
2nd - (3) Seagate 1TB 32MB Cache (Data Backup)
2nd - (1) Seagate 320GB (Because) Internet Speed 20Mbps Time-Warner Cable |
18 Feb 2012
|
#30 | | Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8 RP VM, Linux Mint Debian 2nd OS HD- 7 Pro x64 second case New England |

Quote: Originally Posted by profdlp 
Quote: Originally Posted by mickey megabyte Quote: "it's not going to be viable to go past 6.5nm ... 2024 is the end." hmm, there are a whole 12 years of technological development to go until then.
in three years time, someone will invent an ssd super-duperlizer, then in five years that will get superseded by a mega-wegalizer etc etc - probably.
would you have listened to hard drive manufacturers a dozen years ago if they had said "well, 5 gigs looks like the limit - we'll never get past that.", or ram manufacturers saying "we're never going to be able to make a 64 meg ram stick." Exactly.
At my first computer job I remember my boss (who was a really sharp guy) saying that 4GB was the absolute top due to the limits of FAT drive structure.
Then some bright lads created a drive structure with two FAT tables.  MS originally went from 8bit to 16bit and then onto 32bit for the Dos factor. One old case while everyone was pointing out the 74gb limitations I ran a single 234gb primary on a 250gb drive for 98SE. Before that I had even used a bios overlay program you had to see go on first before a regular format.
The newer form of exFat is what you now see on many external hard drives to compensate for the increased capacity over the years. For strictly Windows use however the recommendation when buying a drive is simply to reformat to NTFS from the start since that is a more secure file system. 
Quote: Originally Posted by GeneO I think SSD will be supplanted by some new faster technology before HDD ever catch up in any way. So in that sense they are doomed. I wouldn't be surprized in the least while lately someone had posted information on a PCIe type SSD drive showing how manufacturers are looking for any other available space that can be used for drives.
The high price tag for the newer technology is nothing new either while seeing prices remain high is a deterrent to seeing them adapted by the common user on a budget!
As far as ATA standards eventually there will be a peak where you wouldn't be able to go any further. That's been a known fact for years now and likely one reason why SSDs were developed as an alternative.
As far as increased capacities over time I know some who would simply run several small drives rather then going with a few large capacity drives. But 25tb is still off in the distance regardless of the drive technology used at this time.
For any phenomenal change in seeing super capacities you would have to expect a new technology to be introduced. That would need to be a performance orientated as well otherwise face drive access time problems for huge amounts of data. That's the main drawn with having too large a capacity and something manufacturers would have to overcome. | My System Specs | | OS Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8 RP VM, Linux Mint Debian 2nd OS HD- 7 Pro x64 second case CPU AMD Phenom II X4 975 Deneb 3.6ghz - 965 on new mini tower Motherboard Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4 Memory Kingston Hyper X DDR3 1600 1.5v 16gb - Mushkin on 2nd build Graphics Card MSI HD Radeon 5750 1gb - MSI HD Radeon 6450 on mini tower Sound Card Creative Labs X-Fi XtremeGamer - Realtek onooard 2nd case Monitor(s) Displays 2 x Acer P191W 19" widesscreen - HP 20" widescreen mini towe Screen Resolution 1440x900 native - 1600x1024 on 7 Pro x64 build Keyboard Microsoft Recusa Razor - MS Comfort 3000 on second build Mouse MS Trackball Explorer - A4TECH dual scroll wheel trackball PSU Corsair 750TX - primary / Corsair CX600 - second Case Antec 900-2 - SSD compatible / NZXT Vulcan mini tower Cooling Zalman CNPS9900A Hard Drives Primary Ultimate x64 build-
WD Black Edition 1tb Sata 6.0 = 2
WD Black Edition 1tb Sata 3.0 = 2 (OS drives)
WD 1tb Green Power sata = 2 1 external
usb flash drives = 18
Second 7 Pro x64 mini tower-
WD Caviar SE 500gb sata II single drive presen Internet Speed 30mbps upgrade - primary hard wired - mini tower usb WiFi SSDs have a 'bleak' future, researchers say problems? All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM. | |