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Windows 7: Microsoft Unveils New Look

24 Aug 2012   #41
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Gornot you are correct it's not a big deal. Microsoft is trying to make it a big deal for what ever reason.


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24 Aug 2012   #42
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Hi guys (and Gals)

What's WRONG with everybody.

1) Win8 is NOT Win7 so don't expect it to be the same. If it was (were -- English speaker's please ==> what's correct !!) then why create Win8 in the first place.

2) It's a different OS -- so before jumping in and saying you hate it because it doesn't work like Win 7 just take off your horse blinkers and imagine the following scenario.

You don't have a cluttered quick launch toolbar or many desktop icons.

so to start EXCEL in Win 7 -- you go to the start menu ==> choose MS Office -- scroll down the list and hit EXCEL.

(at least 3 mouse actions plus the scrolling -- if you have a lot of entries in the start menu you could scroll a fair bit to get to MS OFFICE for example)..

Now you need to start word as well -- same thing (minimum 3 mouse actions)

now you need notepad for a bit of cut and paste into excel cells so start menu again ==> accessories ==> notepad (3 mouse actions).

Now the Windows 8 method of doing this

You have to have organised your start menu by YOUR most used stuff -- not by application -- I've posted enough of this on the Win 8 Forums

so EXCEL Mouse to start menu, click EXCEL tile 2 clicks (not 3) and to access start screen is far quicker than accessing the classic menu in any case.

Same for Word -- 2 clicks instead of 3.

Same for Notepad -- 2 clicks instead of 3.

So immediately you've reduced your keyboard requirements by 33% without even attempting further optimisation and if you have a LARGE "classic menu" scrolling time will take you far longer than accessing the Windows 8 start screen and clicking on a tile.


Screenshot enc of how I've organised my Win 8 stuff.

The main problems are that it's not an OOBE thing -- takes a bit of work and the metro desktop is about as horrid a design as I've ever seen since some of the stuff I saw many years ago depicting "Soviet art" in a Moscow railway station during the height of the cold war.!!!!

If we could deuglify the start screen I don't think Win 8 would have so many detractors.

Anyway Win 7 guys -- try firing up a Win 8 system as a Virtual Machine and organise the tiles as I have suggested.

I know it goes against your years of experience with previous Windows versions -- but give it a whirl. Forget the ugly tiles and just concentrate of organising your work as how YOU do it rather than hierarchically by application and you might be quite surprised and realize Ms actually has a point.

Here's my start screen -- I've got rid of all the "Pre-selected" metro tiles and replaced the invasive (full screen metro mode) IE with the standard version too.

Apart from the hideous tiles it works quite well -- I'm surprised that I'm actually liking this method of working. As I said forget for the moment the real hideouseness of the start screen and tiles.

If people really don't want it -- then it's fine by me -- but it IS a different way of working so please have a go first before rubbishing it -- and as I said it's not a direct OOBE thing so you will have to do a bit of work "Post install time" unlike W7 which installed and was "ready to run".

Cheers
jimbo


Attached Thumbnails
Microsoft Unveils New Look-tiles.png  
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24 Aug 2012   #43
gregrocker

 

Looks like an orderly desktop. Prob is it's not the desktop. They created another desktop you must go to to choose from buttons.

And you can't push the buttons unless it's a touchscreen. Icons would have done, rather than buttons you can't push on a desktop PC. It's not intuitive.

I'm not against change, usually welcome it. I read every post on the Win7 developers blog even when I didn't understand half of it. Fast Triggers made me giddy. They had gotten the Black Viper. Win7 became the Black Viper.

What's big about the change here is its apparently built on an app infrastructure for tablets. Trying to make that work on desktops is IMO a bridge too far, especially if you're taking away the Start menu.

If it was Vista I might feel differently, but everyone loves Win7 except the haters and they don't love anything. To most it's brand new and now being replaced by buttons on what's functionally a second desktop.
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24 Aug 2012   #44
PooMan UK

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi guys (and Gals)

What's WRONG with everybody.


If people really don't want it -- then it's fine by me -- but it IS a different way of working so please have a go first before rubbishing it -- and as I said it's not a direct OOBE thing so you will have to do a bit of work "Post install time" unlike W7 which installed and was "ready to run".

Cheers
jimbo
I've run it, played with it and bashed it, but I still hate it, and it looks and feels like 3.1 to me





But then again this thread is about the "Microsoft Unveils New Look" and it's not about the functionality of the OS
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24 Aug 2012   #45
SIW2

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Vista x64 / 7 X64
 
 

LOL Jimbo.

You are starting from a strange perspective.

Quote:
Win8 is NOT Windows 7 so don't expect it to be the same.
I don't think anyone is expecting it to be the same.

Quote:
you hate it because it doesn't work like Win 7
I don't think anyone is saying that either.

I don't hate it. There are things that could - and in my view should have been done differently - and better. MS had the feedback and went against it. Not surprising it isn't universally liked .

It could have been - and perhaps they will get it next time.

Remember folk saying win7 is what Vista should have been ?

May be they will soon be saying win9 is what win8 should have been.

MS shouldn't be surprised if a lot of people sit this one out. They caused that themselves.

They have announced a fire sale even before it has been released - so they already know.
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24 Aug 2012   #46
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Hi there
I think you've mis-understood what I'm trying to get at here.

If you organise the tiles like I've suggested -- and remember I'm talking about "classic keyboard and mouse" users -- not Touch devices which is another issue entirely -- by clicking the tile you get straight to the application you want to run -- so in fact the entire Desktop is actually now 100% redundant anyway.

If you still think in terms of "The Desktop" I don't think you understood my post in the first place.

If you can access your programs / applications from a particular screen why do you need a "Separate Desktop".

As I keep trying to say "Think Differently".

If you still hate the design --fine by me -- but it's not nearly as bad as the detractors make out.

(Actually Windows 3.1 (or Windows for workgroups 3.11 which was the version I first used) was quite a decent product for its time).

Cheers
jimbo
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24 Aug 2012   #47
gregrocker

 

To answer your question, Jimbo: I need a desktop to organize my internet windows beside my open programs - all in one place. I can't do that on the second desktop they created for us to push buttons.

It's personal preference, I realize. I want a small popup to choose from instead of another desktop to trade places, or effectively a wall to come down which interrupts what I'm doing which is jarring.
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24 Aug 2012   #48
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
To answer your question, Jimbo: I need a desktop to organize my internet windows beside my open programs - all in one place. I can't do that on the second desktop they created for us to push buttons.

It's personal preference, I realize. I want a small popup to choose from instead of another desktop to trade places, or effectively a wall to come down which interrupts what I'm doing which is jarring.

Hi there
??
not sure I understand this -- after you open IE from your 1st session via the "Tile" you can then via your taskbar open as many Internet explorer sessions as you want (or from within IE explorer itself). Remember I'm saying use STANDARD applications not the Metroized full screen versions" even if you are coming from the W8 start screen tiles.

(My version of IE in its menu has open new tab -- open favourite etc so starting 2nd/ 3rd / 97th session or whatever shouldn't be a problem).

same with EXCEL or any of the other standard applications -- so I'm sticking to my premise that you can do exactly what you do now WITHOUT a desktop. !!

Cheers
jimbo
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24 Aug 2012   #49
lkgriffith

Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
 
 

Quote:
Win8 is NOT Windows 7 so don't expect it to be the same.
I don't expect it to be the same but I expect the new to improve the experience and not degrade it. I also expect to be able to select a close to classic look and feel along with selecting the colors of the various parts of the windows and controls as has been possible since Win3.0. Even if you don't think so, the visual aesthetics and dynamics of a GUI is an important part of the functionality of a GUI. As it is, Windows 8 is only slightly better than a command line OS. Even the primitive GEM GUI that ran on top of DOS had better and more functional aesthetics and dynamics.


Quote:
it looks and feels like 3.1 to me
It's worse. Less choice over color, flat, no clear delineation between controls. It is even worse than monochrome Open Look or Motif. I have developed quite a lot of software using those GUIs. They were ugly and colorless but functional.


Quote:
May be they will soon be saying win9 is what win8 should have been.
From the leaked comments on the soon to be win9, it is simply going to be more of the same. Flat, featureless, colorless, and few if any choices over look and feel. The start menu or a fully functional desktop equivalent will continue to be absent. Expect a slightly re-baked Windows 8 with possibly a slightly better touch screen metaphor in place of Metro along with more brainless and featureless Apps. That is unless the current cadre of mangers are replaced with people who really know what they are doing rather than just peeing on all the trees by changing things for the sake of changing them.
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24 Aug 2012   #50
gregrocker

 

But Jimbo the difference is I want to be able to access programs, controls and settings alongside my Firefox windows without having to go to some other wall to do that - and why should I have to when the Start button screen works perfectly?

An app-centric touch screen interface and functionality doesn't translate to a desktop except with extreme modifications. I spent an entire day finding the perfect Win7-style Start Menu and setting it up. You've spent months configuring your second desktop screen.
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