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Windows 7: No plans for Windows 7 SP2

31 Oct 2012   #51
King Arthur

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by FuturDreamz View Post
So, you're saying that you want to use your 20+ year old APIs that Microsoft wants to remove because of security and performance issues? that's all I understand.

And as for the Windows Store: it's primarily designed to ensure that your application meets the new Windows requirements, and ensure it will continue to work during OS updates. Microsoft wants to sandbox the OS and try to make it secure.

And as for ISVs creating a replacement to Windows: how would that work? how would you resolve security issues.

What you're describing would be like Windows 2k, where the entire OS is open and applications and malware can change things to however they like, regardless of end user experience.
Win32 may be old and have legitimate issues, but are they so bad to a point that we must replace it wholesale and sandbox every single thing we run and hamper practicality, the user's freedom, and the PC's traditional position as an open platform?

I can understand the point behind MS making Windows 8 so security-focused and running everything we might want through Window Store, Windows has been the target of malicious attacks because of its market share and steps should be taken to mitigate them. However, this "security" is coming at the price of the user's and the PC platform's freedom.

As Benjamin Franklin once said, anyone who would sell their freedom for security deserves neither. This isn't just a question of whether we like or hate Metro, this is also a question of whether we want to protect our right to use our computers as we wish; Microsoft is not and should not be in any position to tell me I can't run (for example) Adobe Flash because it doesn't meet their arbitrary specifications.


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31 Oct 2012   #52
SIW2

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Vista x64 / 7 X64
 
 

At last, somebody who gets it.
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31 Oct 2012   #53
gregrocker

 

I do not get the impression that MS even realizes they scored such a winner with Win7, being in such a hurry to compete with Ipad. When I have the chance to mention how much users love Win7, it seems like irrelevant news to them. The company's focus is so completely on Win8 now that those of us supporting tens of millions of new users just getting to know Win7 feel like unwanted stepchildren.

They're presently more interested in my social media connections than how many hours a day I spend helping their consumers here with the toughest install/boot/partitioning issues that aren't even addressed to MS forums. It's really quite discouraging but at the same time I do not want to appear ungrateful for their recognition.
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31 Oct 2012   #54
FuturDreamz

Windows 8 Pro (32-bit)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by FuturDreamz View Post
So, you're saying that you want to use your 20+ year old APIs that Microsoft wants to remove because of security and performance issues? that's all I understand.

And as for the Windows Store: it's primarily designed to ensure that your application meets the new Windows requirements, and ensure it will continue to work during OS updates. Microsoft wants to sandbox the OS and try to make it secure.

And as for ISVs creating a replacement to Windows: how would that work? how would you resolve security issues.

What you're describing would be like Windows 2k, where the entire OS is open and applications and malware can change things to however they like, regardless of end user experience.
Win32 may be old and have legitimate issues, but are they so bad to a point that we must replace it wholesale and sandbox every single thing we run and hamper practicality, the user's freedom, and the PC's traditional position as an open platform?
Essentially. A good portion of the Windows APIs are really old, but are used in current software. Microsoft has been introducing new APIs (Such as ActiveX and Silverlight) that attempts to move developers off of old APIs, but all they have done is made things a complete mess. And Microsoft is not interested in porting and maintaining these in Windows on Arm.

Metro is a clean start. Developers have no choice but to use standard APIs, which frees up Microsoft to rebuild Windows any way they see fit. It's highly possible Windows 9 won't even run the NT kernel. Desktop apps may still be supported, but only in a virtual machine like XP Mode (or like WINE on Linux). Sort of how Blackberry can support Android applications.

If you think you can't recognize Windows NOW, wait until Windows 9 or 10.
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01 Nov 2012   #55
badtux

Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by theveterans View Post
Windows 8 beats 7 in performance benchmarks according to many review sites. Hope MS could provide an update that improves W7 performance.
Not likely, there's been some significant changes deep inside to do things like, e.g., reduce the number of timer interrupts (which in turn suck CPU cycles) that aren't really backward compatible without the whole set of libraries tuned to work properly with a tickless kernel, in which case you have Windows 8 with the Windows 7 UI on top of it. Too bad you have to get the atrocious Windows 8 UI to get the nice Windows 8 kernel. Sigh!
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01 Nov 2012   #56
neo101

WIN7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

For those that say it runs faster - is it not cos everyone now have tons of ram in their pc's running on 64bit plus the fact that MS 'stripped' a load of stuff operating in the background out - like media player which you have to pay Xtra for?

I just bought another copy of Win7 Ultimate for a new build.
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01 Nov 2012   #57
theveterans

Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by badtux View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by theveterans View Post
Windows 8 beats 7 in performance benchmarks according to many review sites. Hope MS could provide an update that improves W7 performance.
Not likely, there's been some significant changes deep inside to do things like, e.g., reduce the number of timer interrupts (which in turn suck CPU cycles) that aren't really backward compatible without the whole set of libraries tuned to work properly with a tickless kernel, in which case you have Windows 8 with the Windows 7 UI on top of it. Too bad you have to get the atrocious Windows 8 UI to get the nice Windows 8 kernel. Sigh!
This is why I want MS to release an update that matches the performance of Windows 8 kernel. Be it a service pack or a regular update, I just want Windows 7 UI to match the performance of Windows 8 kernel or better. I know some 3rd party software that mimic Windows 7 UI in W8, but I don't like messing with Windows shell files plus you still won't be able to get rid of Metro completely. I feel that Windows 8 UI is more cumbersome than Windows 7 even with weeks of getting familiarized with it.
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01 Nov 2012   #58
badtux

Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by theveterans View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by badtux View Post
Windows 8 with the Windows 7 UI on top of it.
This is why I want MS to release an update that matches the performance of Windows 8 kernel. Be it a service pack or a regular update, I just want Windows 7 UI to match the performance of Windows 8 kernel or better.
Not happening. What is likely to happen is that Windows 9 will actually fix the Windows 8 UI to be less clunky and more flexible.

What annoys me most about Windows 8 is the complexity of the gesture language that Microsoft invented from scratch. So each corner of the screen is a hot corner? And each hot corner does something entirely different? And some corners do something even *more* different if you touch it then slide your finger to the side or down? Dude. That's just inventing complexity for the sake of complexity. Love it or leave it, Apple demonstrated all you need for a tablet is *one* hot button. They've added a couple of swipes since then, but nowhere near the complexity of the Windows 8 gesture language. Over in Linux-land, the Gnome 3 folks with their tablet release of their window manager have gotten even simpler, they have one gesture and one hot button each of which works identically, and get this, it works just as well as a non-touch desktop environment as it works in a tablet environment. But noooo, Microsoft had to layer all this complexity into their gesture language. It's as if Windows 8 was designed by Texans under the principle of "more is better!". Uhm, no. More is just more. Sigh.
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04 Nov 2012   #59
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Well I have a finger gesture for Windows 8 but I can't show it here.
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04 Nov 2012   #60
lkgriffith

Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
 
 

Layback,

I suspect your proposed finger gesture is rather like what I did decades ago while working with an especially frustrating dialect of UNIX. While trying to remember the exact spelling and sequence of one its over 700 totally incomprehensible command line strings, I became so frustrated that I gave it a very simple command: "Go to Hell!". It politely refused by telling me that "Hell" was not defined. You would likely get a similar response from Windows 8.

This is an obtuse way of my being able to explain that Windows 8 is returning to the same philosophy that drove the so called design of UNIX.

"People can learn the commands so why should we make it easy and intuitive to use. By making it difficult to learn and almost impossible to remember, we can show the world how smart we are."

I call BS to that. To call the so called designers, dumb as a pile of rocks, would be insulting to piles of rocks. Any idiot can make something that is very difficult to use. It takes real skill, knowledge, and a heroic effort to make something that is easy to learn, easy to use, and does something useful at the same time. Windows 8 is a far cry from being like that. It is closer to matching the UNIX design philosophy than any Windows OS to date. I would not be surprised if the next version of Office has vi for a text editor.
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 No plans for Windows 7 SP2




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