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Windows 7: Who is Julie Larson-Green? Meet the new head of Windows

19 Nov 2012   #11
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I actually like the ribbons in M$ Office; it didn't take long to get used to them ...
I still find them basically awful in everything except Excel.
The only thing the "Ribbon" accomplished is the elimination of my ability to use menus...
Normally, I prefer menus, especially over icons (one of the first things I do in a folder, other than a picture folder, is to change the view from clunky icons to list) but, in the case of Office, I find the ribbon far more efficient. Plus, the menus are still there, if you should need them.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
...I would much rather that MS fix the d*** bugs and glitches, than constantly changing the GUI...
I somewhat agree with you there. Micro$not does need to spend more time on fixing bugs and glitches (preferably before releasing anything) but, other than the "GUI Formerly Known as Metro", there is nothing wrong with making changes that improve a GUI, unlike the aforementioned GUI.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
...I notice that in Word 2010, MS replaced the text descriptions in the paste pop-up menu with unintelligible icons...
That one briefly threw me for a loop when I installed Office 2010 the other day...for all of five seconds. Then I figured out all by my little ole lonesome (and, for this computer challenged old bi...broad, that's an accomplishment) all one has to do is put the mouse pointer on each icon and, not only does a little window popup under the icon telling you what it does, a preview of what the paste would look like if you used it shows up on the document behind the popped up windows. That seems like an improvement to me.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
...
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
... and they are highly customizeable.
Not in:
  • Office 2007
  • Paint
  • WordPad
  • Windows Explorer (W8 version)...
I can't speak for the others since I don't use them but in Office 2007, I disagree. I customized the snot out of my copy of Word 2007, removing "menus" I never used and replacing them with ones I do use. I especially loved the Quick Access Toolbar.


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19 Nov 2012   #12
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
I still find them basically awful in everything except Excel.
The only thing the "Ribbon" accomplished is the elimination of my ability to use menus.
It eliminated your ability to waste more time burrowing through menus finding an option, by bringing more of the options to you directly. If my 30 non-tech savvy users can use the ribbons and spot the benefits, they should be plainly obvious to all. Sitting at a computer with Office 2003 is painful now.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it will be plainly obvious to all (mayhap many to most) but I do feel it's not al that hard to learn, especially for someone who hasn't used a previous, non-ribbon version.
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19 Nov 2012   #13
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
I think ribbons are great - especially since they are somewhat similar across products. Make you feel immediately at home.
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19 Nov 2012   #14
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Yes, that's an excellent point by whs. That could also explain why my users had no issues with it. If they are used to working in Excel, then opening Word isn't going to be very different for them.
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19 Nov 2012   #15
Bertison

Windows 7/64 HPremium.
 
 

All the previous debate proves, is that there are individual Windows users with individual likes, dislikes and ways of working.

Hey, we're all different, right? Except maybe at a Chinese Communist Party Congress....

Personally, I don't like Win8 or the Ribbon, so I won't use them. But I respect the choice of those who do.
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19 Nov 2012   #16
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote:
But I respect the choice of those who do.
That's the right spirit.
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20 Nov 2012   #17
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
It eliminated your ability to waste more time burrowing through menus finding an option, by bringing more of the options to you directly.
Maybe you had to hunt through the menus, but I knew where the to look for the functions I used.
I had ALL of my heavily used functions on 2 toolbars, unlike the "Ribbon".

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
If my 30 non-tech savvy users can use the ribbons and spot the benefits, they should be plainly obvious to all.
That is exactly the same thing that Metro "fan boys" say about Metro.

Benefits like:
  • Automatically swapping from the selected "Ribbon" to the context triggered one (e.g. "Home" to "Header & Footer Tools") which doesn't have the tools you wanted to use (e.g. Font settings)?
  • Having to open the "obsolete" dialogue windows to actually access the tool you wanted (just like the old menus)?
  • The "Ribbon" that lets you import templates being turned OFF by default (I had to do an Internet search to discover that secret)?
The only thing I like about the Word "Ribbon" is the "Live Preview".

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
Sitting at a computer with Office 2003 is painful now.
I guess you missed the part where I wrote that:
  • The "Ribbon" wasn't awful in Excel (I actually find it useful in Excel).
  • I can't use menu-based Office any more either.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
That one briefly threw me for a loop when I installed Office 2010 the other day...for all of five seconds.
Since I use Office 2007 for 90% of my Word documents, those Office 2010 icons have no meaning to me.
I have to wait for the tooltip to come up (every time).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I can't speak for the others since I don't use them but in Office 2007, I disagree. I customized the snot out of my copy of Word 2007, removing "menus" I never used and replacing them with ones I do use. I especially loved the Quick Access Toolbar.
The Office 2007 "Ribbon" is far less customisable than toolbars.
With the old toolbars you could choose:
  • The tools you wanted
  • The toolbar icon size
  • The number of toolbars
How did you customise the Office 2007 "Ribbon"?
All of the articles I've read indicate that you have to edit XML files (apparently you can customise the Office 2010 "Ribbon").

The only "Ribbon" option I have is, "Show Developer tab in the Ribbon".
I can't even change the text or graphic size without resetting my Windows "Personalize" settings.

I assume that you actually mean the "Quick Access Toolbar" (since there are no menus in my Word 2007).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I wouldn't go so far as to say it will be plainly obvious to all (mayhap many to most) but I do feel it's not al that hard to learn, especially for someone who hasn't used a previous, non-ribbon version.
The "Ribbon" is designed for people who haven't used the previous GUIs (just like Metro).
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20 Nov 2012   #18
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Maybe you had to hunt through the menus, but I knew where the to look for the functions I used.
I had ALL of my heavily used functions on 2 toolbars, unlike the "Ribbon".
The ribbon made life easier and made common functions more readily available. There have been plenty of usability studies to prove this as the case. Finding specific options requires less mouse clicks in most cases. We can debate this back and forth all day, but just because you have a negative opinion of ribbons, doesn't mean that holds true for all. It's been received largely as a big positive, which is why it is being used more often. It's a god-send for SharePoint users.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
That is exactly the same thing that Metro "fan boys" say about Metro.
Except I'm not a Metro fanboy at all. On both of my Windows 8 machines, I'm using 3rd party apps to give me a standard desktop.
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20 Nov 2012   #19
lkgriffith

Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
I just don't understand all the hate for metro still.

If you don't like it - don't use it
I would really like not to use it but Microsoft appears to be determined to abolish the use of a rational mouse/keyboard desktop in favor of toy touch devices. The possibility of purchasing Windows 7 for new systems will vanish shortly after the so called extended life of October 2014. What then? Windows 8 is all we will have to be able to deliver both old and new Windows content. Windows 9 will simply be more of the same kind of crap assuming the current trend continues.

Touch devices are intended to be used for consuming content but can in no way be used create the finely detailed and complex content that it requires. What is worse, any content that manages to be created will have to have the approval of Microsoft who will have full access to and rights to use the source code as it wishes. For that, they get the lions share of any revenue received. The creator of content gets royally screwed in the deal as well as does the consumer of content at the whim of Microsoft. Choice? You will have only the choice that Microsoft allows. THAT is not a choice!

Now, Windows IS Microsoft's property and they can do with it as they choose. However, the consequences will not be good even for Microsoft. As a long term business model, it cannot succeed. Without content and especially without a stream of new and more capable content, Windows is all but worthless. OK. So you can continue to browse the web, send and receive email, use FaceBook, and tweet. Is that enough? Today, maybe. In three years when you have a real job rather than living off your parents? You have to be kidding.
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20 Nov 2012   #20
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
I wasn't issuing an edict

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
The ribbon made life easier and made common functions more readily available. There have been plenty of usability studies to prove this as the case. Finding specific options requires less mouse clicks in most cases.
That's true compared to a menu.
It's not true compared to a toolbar.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
We can debate this back and forth all day, but just because you have a negative opinion of ribbons, doesn't mean that holds true for all.
I wasn't issuing an edict.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
It's been received largely as a big positive, which is why it is being used more often. It's a god-send for SharePoint users.
Businesses and individuals can only buy products that MS is willing to sell.
As far as I'm aware, you haven't been able to buy Office 2003 for several years.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
That is exactly the same thing that Metro "fan boys" say about Metro.
Except I'm not a Metro fanboy at all. On both of my Windows 8 machines, I'm using 3rd party apps to give me a standard desktop.
I didn't say that you were.

"Classic Shell" is a Godsend.
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 Who is Julie Larson-Green? Meet the new head of Windows




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