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Windows 7: More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

16 Jun 2013   #1201
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

A Toolbar is the way to go: Toolbars - How to Use in Windows 7 and Vista


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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16 Jun 2013   #1202
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Why bother when Win 7 has a perfectly good system already? The start menu accomplishes the same thing.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jun 2013   #1203
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Whenever I finish downloading that as an mp4 I'll try it out.
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16 Jun 2013   #1204
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Why bother when Win 7 has a perfectly good system already? The start menu accomplishes the same thing.
Try to put 100 entries into the start menu - shortcuts for programs, websites and folders. I am waiting for your suggestions especially for the websites and folders.

Btw - Toolbars are part of the perfect Win7 system.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jun 2013   #1205
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Why bother when Win 7 has a perfectly good system already? The start menu accomplishes the same thing.
Try to put 100 entries into the start menu - shortcuts for programs, websites and folders. I am waiting for your suggestions especially for the websites and folders.

Btw - Toolbars are part of the perfect Win7 system.
True, toolbars are part of Windows (and I never said Win 7 was perfect). I should have worded what I said a bit differently, such as Win 7 already has other perfectly good systems.

I don't need 100 entries in a single menu. Not only that, the more that are in a single list, the harder it is for me to find what I'm looking for. Digging through 100 entries all the time would be a nightmare for me. That is why I have only 26 programs pinned to my start menu and have room for 10 more (even more than that since there are a few I have already pinned that I could do without; I'll probably unpin them some day when I have nothing else to do to make going through the pinned list a bit easier). Access to All Programs is only a click away. My 18 most frequently used programs are on the taskbar. Those are duplicated by being pinned on the start menu (actually, they started there and I added them to task bar later). I could eliminate those duplications and gain room for another 18 more programs on the start menu.

The notification area has eight programs pinned to it (and several more are only a click away). Coretemp has all six core temperature readings there as well. I also put a shortcut to the Recycle Bin there so I can drag stuff there instead of right clicking to delete or reducing a window size to get to the default recycle bin icon; the icon is also bigger which helps with my aim (although most of the time, now, I just select and hit Shift/Delete to avoid unnecessary writes to my SSD; when scanning illustration rich books, such as color comics, I generate a huge number of temporary files).

The task bar is locked and is set to "Combine when the taskbar is full." It's located on the left side of my desktop so it's not in the way and is always visible for quick access. If I have enough Word docs open, for example, to overflow the task bars, they will combine into one entry. All I have to do is hover over the Word icon and Aeropeek will pop open previews of each document. To select one, all I have to do is click on its preview. Easy peasy.

Same for folders and files. I use the default libraries in the start menu as shortcuts to the associated data folder (example: Documents in the start menu takes me just to My Documents). It may require a few more clicks to get where I'm going but it's still one "heckuvalot" faster than running down a long list trying to find what I want.

Many files, such as my e-books and music files (the majority of my files, btw) are accessed from within the programs that use them. I use Media Monkey to organize, access and play my music. I rarely go directly to the folders where my music is stored. I use calibre to manage my e-books. It organizes my e-books, can do searches using more criteria than can be put into a folder/file structure (and the searches can be saved), converts them from one format to another, loads them onto an SD card to use in my e-book reader, etc. Once I add books to calibre, I never even go to the folder where my e-books get stored again (in fact, doing so is highly discouraged). While I will use a library to give me a single listing of video files spread over several HDDs once I start ripping my video collection, I will probably access them most of the time from whatever player I decide on.

Of course, if I know exactly what I am looking for, I can just hit the Windows key (or click on the orb) and start typing in the name.

Websites I access from within my browser (IE10) using either the favorites bar (I have 28 there) or the drop down Favorites menu (which is organized by folders; I'm too lazy to go through and count how many are there). I use AM Deadlink every few months to see if any sites have gone down or have new addresses. I see no need to link a website anywhere else other than within a Word doc or PDF.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jun 2013   #1206
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

We have all for a long time head much about the Start Orb.

I keep scratching my head wondering how before Windows 8 came out I missed all the complaints about the Start Orb in previous operating systems.

You would think their should of been millions of complaints to convince Microsoft to do without the Start Orb in Windows 8.
Did anybody else miss all those complaints like I did.

The tool bar is built into Windows 7 just the way it should be. It's a option to use or not to use. You choose. I like things that way.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jun 2013   #1207
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I really wonder also how many current W7 users actually use the start button or even the menu once they've organised their systems - most people I know either run stuff from the Desktop or from the quick launch bar and only use the menu if they want to find something -- and even the current W8's search IMO is superior once you get used to it.
I hate having icons on my desktop.
I only drop things there temporarily (I move them to the appropriate folders later).

My friend drops everything on his desktop and he can never find anything without a lengthy search.
His full HD screen is 50% covered with program icons (he also has a couple of gadgets and a bunch of Sticky Notes on it).

I use the Start Menu regularly (especially if I've had to reboot).

On my PC:
  • My "Primary" programs are on the Taskbar (+ Customised Computer Management and Control Panel).
  • My "Secondary" programs are in the pinned area.
  • I use a combination of the Search box and "All Programs" (depending on my mood).
This is my Start Menu from last year (it is still basically the same).
I have my "All Programs" section categorised to eliminate sprawl.
Click picture for animation
Attachment 272814
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
-- and even the current W8's search IMO is superior once you get used to it.
That's debatable.

The W7 search leaves you on the Desktop (where your work is) and doesn't require the entire screen.
I don't even have the Indexing service running and yet it always finds the programs I search for (I don't use it to search for files).

Maybe they've fixed search in the W8 release version, but when I was using the previews (DP, CP, RP and Ent) it wouldn't show any results (for the searches I tried) unless I clicked on one of the categories (at the top right).
I couldn't have the shortcuts for everything I generally have on covering the "two desktops" on the dual display set up here. That's one reason why I usually keep 5 Quick Launch type addon tool bars on the main task bar itself and simply open a folder used for one to drag the shortcut into from each new program with some going onto the Rocketdock bar set on the second display for a quick access while running something full screen on the primary.

The Start menu still has it's use for Search, Run, Admin Tools, the Control Panel when the pinned shortcut has a problem while the CP can be made available in any explorer window. At the same time the desktop remains completely free of anything eliminating the need to worry about clutter which would be all you would see with 5 tool bars of icons plastered on it!

Now as for Start orbs in versions that proceeded Vista none had orbs but Start buttons. They would be using the Classic Windows themes not Aero with or without transparency and orbs. For XP you could get some 3rd party tweakers to make XP look like Vista sometime back but as for the Aero and pinning things on the task bar that more or less was the convenient improvement over the Quick Launch area with limited amount of space. Now you can cover the entire task bar except for Start orb and System notifications.

The main beef about 8 is the fact that MS wasn't worried any about the desktop users who decided to try 8 out or were soon stuck royally with 8 on a new machine but were putting all the efforts into Surface and tabletizing things to start with. With the desktop market in a slump this apparently was their time to jump in the mobile market since they still have 7 to offer at the present moment. MS isn't worried too much about any home users who hate 8! MS is too large to begin with but would satisfy the blog writer bad mouthing MS by 8.1 seeing some form of familiarity brought into the "mess"!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2013   #1208
Dallas 7

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
From all I have seen of 8.1 it is not good enough for the traditional desktop user. The 'Start button' is a joke and all the other functions are still geared to tablet users.

I don't want tiles nor a cloud nor any of those new apps on my desktop. And for my tablet I am well served with Android.......

My sentiments exactly whs! My computer has W7 and my tablet is an IPad. I did the same thing to W8
that M$ did to the desktop.....threw it under the bus.
Hi there

Wait and see until 8.1 is actually OUT-- the Boot directly to desktop seems like a good feature for starters and is OFICIALLY BACK in 8.1.

In any case even on the current W8 there's no need whatsoever to have ANY of those "New fangled apps" on your desktop either. They can stay on the Start screen (which in W8.1 you never have to even SEE) and in any case they can all be uninstalled / removed..............

Cheers
jimbo

Jimbo some of that sounds like an improvement...........
BUT; 8.1 is still unquestionably designed and optimized for a touchscreen, like having to drag or swipe the top edge of the screen all the way to the bottom of the screen to close a program, instead of simply adding an "X" at the top of the screen as an option. That's fine for a tablet, but it's just awkward on a desktop.
Like playing basketball in a pair of black leather wingtips instead of athletic shoes.

When MS stops treating the desktop like a touchscreen tablet, I'll start taking their OS seriously.
Till then, IMO 8 is out of place on a non-touchscreen desktop PC.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2013   #1209
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Why bother when Win 7 has a perfectly good system already? The start menu accomplishes the same thing.
Try to put 100 entries into the start menu - shortcuts for programs, websites and folders. I am waiting for your suggestions especially for the websites and folders.

Btw - Toolbars are part of the perfect Win7 system.
Hi there
For Windows 8 a custom toolbar makes perfect sense -- especially you can have several different ones. For Windows 7 as people have said you already have a menu. Windows 8 as we all know DOESN'T have a menu so in this case toolbars make perfect sense if you need to replicate some type of "menuing" system without using a 3rd party add on.

Enc screenshot (W8) with custom toolbar functioning as a menu

I agree if you have 100 entries in a menu with loads of sub entries etc - then a Menu system gets just as horrible as the Tiles in Win8 so the toolbar idea in W7 IMO is only worth while if you have a menu with a very large number of entries. I'd suspect that the average user wouldn't need to go to the trouble of creating custom toolbars for W7 though. For W8 it's a different ballgame.

@Dallas7 in W8 desktop applications operate just like they do in W7 -- you close them with the 'X' just like previously. Starting applications from the desktop just opens other desktop sessions too --again like W7.

The full screen horror stuff is only for the "Metro" apps - which you never have to see or use if you don't want -- especially in W 8.1 where you can boot to the desktop - and I don't find it a bother say if I want to get into the control panel just to slide my mouse to the extreme bottom right of the screen to get the charms bar --in W7 you have to go to the menu anyway so the actions are roughly similar.

(In W8.1 these Metro apps are now windowable so could be a lot more useful - I agree in W8 they are just a NIGHTMARE).

Besides for a lot of System functions simply press Windows +X key to get a lot of useful system functions. (This might be available on W7 too-- I'm on W8 at the moment so I can't check if that combination of keys works in W7).

Screenshot showing W8 custom toolbar labelled Programs.


Cheers
jimbo


Attached Thumbnails
More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8-menu8.png  
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17 Jun 2013   #1210
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I really wonder also how many current W7 users actually use the start button or even the menu........

Cheers
jimbo

I use the start button/start menu all the time.
Hi there

Some will use it just because it's there but if you have a large number of entries > 100 for example using a menu gets quite convoluted too.

When I'm on W7 I have to say I really don't use the menu a lot and I actually quite like the SEARCH on W8 which will be improved on W8.1.

As for Menu complexity -- just look even on Windows 98 with a small number of options a menu system can start to get unwieldy. Imagine if you had say 100 main rows and 15 columns on a typical laptop screen -- I'd say also a menu was barely useable.

Screen shot W98 menu enc (Running as a VM BTW).

Cheers
jimbo


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