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Windows 7: More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

27 Jun 2013   #1281
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Hi all,

New to this thread, long one but great read so far. I took a break at Pg 117, starting from the current page and working back as time permits.

I've been running Win 7 since May '10 which was, I think, about 7 months after it had been released for general use.

My OS history has been Win 95, 98, XP, and then 7.

As a Desktop user with a Laptop nearly identical to my Desktop PC, 7 has easily been my favorite Windows OS. The improvements in the Control Panel, with the "search" field, along with the overall search modes were a significant improvement from XP.

I read a brief AV discussion a few pages back on the thread. I'm currently running Norton 360 for about 5 months with no issues as yet. I've used 2 previous AV's, Trend Micro back in the Win '98 days, and then ESET in '10, when I first began running Win 7. ESET was disappointing, failing to block all effects of an intrusion.

I have a friend that's been running MacAfee for years without any intrusions on his PC. He's been running Win 7 for about the same time as me. I did read some posts about MacAfee being less than satisfactory. From what I've read around 'net forums. AV performances vary widely among users.

I have Defender activated but have been considering disabling it after reading similar posts at the Norton forum as what I've read here about Defender.

I also run MBAM Pro along with Norton 360. I haven't seen any issues with conflicts as yet. I feel better running a 2nd-opinion scanner live but I realize that (I think) conventional wisdom says that's not recommended.

I had a chance to play with Win 8 a few months ago at a computer store. My take on it was "so-so" but I much prefer Win 7 based on what I'd seen that day.

I'm a "keyboard shortcut" geek so one of the main questions that I'd have about Win 8 is with regards to the "metro" icons, fields, etc. If the traditional Windows shortcuts work in Win 8 (ie, Ctrl W closing most windows, or the old "alt-spacebar" keystroke showing the "file" menu) all work in Win 8 as with past Win OS'es, then that would be one important point I'd consider if or when I feel compelled to install Win 8.

With regards to the "Start button" discussion Win 8 vs 7, I'm in the camp where I think Win 8 should have included that in their release although it appears that 8.1 will be including that in the upcoming release.

I use the Start menu occasionally but am not a frequent user of the menu. I'm running "Autohotkey", a script tool that I use to map hotkeys so that's how I launch my daily programs, 'net sites, etc.

I rarely use the mouse on my Desktop PC. If I'm able to do that with Win 8.1, then I guess I could live with that OS but I think I'll be using Win 7 for a long time, or as long as my Desktop PC lives.

The other question that I have, when comparing Win 7 to 8, is regarding the Registry in general.

Is Win 8 radically different than Win 7 in the Registry? I rarely have reasons to edit it, but there are 2 registry values that are important to me in Win 7, where I modified them.

The first registry is the "alt-tab" order value, where I edited the Win 7 value to revert to "XP" behavior with the "alt-tab" action. Since Win 7 installed with the default "Desktop" icon within alt-tab, along with the "aero" style icon appearances in alt-tab, I added a registry value to revert to XP.

The other registry value that's important to me is the "unattended wakeup timeout" value, where the user can change the default 120-second timeout to any value as required:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\238C9FA8-0AAD-41ED-83F4-97BE242C8F20\7bc4a2f9-d8fc-4469-b07b-33eb785aaca0\DefaultPowerSchemeValues

Registry Key Power Plan
381b4222-f694-41f0-9685-ff5bb260df2e Balanced
8c5e7fda-e8bf-4a96-9a85-a6e23a8c635c High performance
a1841308-3541-4fab-bc81-f71556f20b4a Power saver

Are the Power Plan/timeout values the same with Win 8 vs Win 7?


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
27 Jun 2013   #1282
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

These days I run with the GFI no longer Sunbelt form of VIPRE which has proved itself to be a top notch av antimalware "finder" as well as active protection when compared next to anything else. But I still would need to run a trial on 8 while 8 and now 8.1 available has a much better form of Windows Defender for work in it. (MS Security Essentials that actually finds things!)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jun 2013   #1283
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mjf View Post
Doesn't the take up of alternate Linux OSs also depend on what the software developers (eg Adobe Photoshop) will support? I also think MS Office still has a stranglehold in the business world. Businesses also using special accounting, inventory etc software running on Windows platforms (+ Macs).
Most of those programs tend to work fine with Wine (a program that emulates the Win environment for some programs only), and there are free versions that are just as good Here for photoshop on Wine on ubuntu + alternatives. Office works, and since they dropped Outlook, it does not matter that it works (with some limitations).

For Office I have seen a lot of smallish companies that switch to LibreOffice for cost reasons (and idiotic licensing restrictions), but yeah big ones don't care simply because the costs of that are irrelevant to them.
Not that there is a lot of people making serious database work with Access (or if it was ever the case).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

28 Jun 2013   #1284
Gary

Win 10 Pro 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
Hi all,

New to this thread, long one but great read so far. I took a break at Pg 117, starting from the current page and working back as time permits.

I've been running Win 7 since May '10 which was, I think, about 7 months after it had been released for general use.

My OS history has been Win 95, 98, XP, and then 7.

As a Desktop user with a Laptop nearly identical to my Desktop PC, 7 has easily been my favorite Windows OS. The improvements in the Control Panel, with the "search" field, along with the overall search modes were a significant improvement from XP.

I read a brief AV discussion a few pages back on the thread. I'm currently running Norton 360 for about 5 months with no issues as yet. I've used 2 previous AV's, Trend Micro back in the Win '98 days, and then ESET in '10, when I first began running Win 7. ESET was disappointing, failing to block all effects of an intrusion.

I have a friend that's been running MacAfee for years without any intrusions on his PC. He's been running Win 7 for about the same time as me. I did read some posts about MacAfee being less than satisfactory. From what I've read around 'net forums. AV performances vary widely among users.

I have Defender activated but have been considering disabling it after reading similar posts at the Norton forum as what I've read here about Defender.

I also run MBAM Pro along with Norton 360. I haven't seen any issues with conflicts as yet. I feel better running a 2nd-opinion scanner live but I realize that (I think) conventional wisdom says that's not recommended.

I had a chance to play with Win 8 a few months ago at a computer store. My take on it was "so-so" but I much prefer Win 7 based on what I'd seen that day.

I'm a "keyboard shortcut" geek so one of the main questions that I'd have about Win 8 is with regards to the "metro" icons, fields, etc. If the traditional Windows shortcuts work in Win 8 (ie, Ctrl W closing most windows, or the old "alt-spacebar" keystroke showing the "file" menu) all work in Win 8 as with past Win OS'es, then that would be one important point I'd consider if or when I feel compelled to install Win 8.

With regards to the "Start button" discussion Win 8 vs 7, I'm in the camp where I think Win 8 should have included that in their release although it appears that 8.1 will be including that in the upcoming release.

I use the Start menu occasionally but am not a frequent user of the menu. I'm running "Autohotkey", a script tool that I use to map hotkeys so that's how I launch my daily programs, 'net sites, etc.

I rarely use the mouse on my Desktop PC. If I'm able to do that with Win 8.1, then I guess I could live with that OS but I think I'll be using Win 7 for a long time, or as long as my Desktop PC lives.

The other question that I have, when comparing Win 7 to 8, is regarding the Registry in general.

Is Win 8 radically different than Win 7 in the Registry? I rarely have reasons to edit it, but there are 2 registry values that are important to me in Win 7, where I modified them.

The first registry is the "alt-tab" order value, where I edited the Win 7 value to revert to "XP" behavior with the "alt-tab" action. Since Win 7 installed with the default "Desktop" icon within alt-tab, along with the "aero" style icon appearances in alt-tab, I added a registry value to revert to XP.

The other registry value that's important to me is the "unattended wakeup timeout" value, where the user can change the default 120-second timeout to any value as required:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\238C9FA8-0AAD-41ED-83F4-97BE242C8F20\7bc4a2f9-d8fc-4469-b07b-33eb785aaca0\DefaultPowerSchemeValues

Registry Key Power Plan
381b4222-f694-41f0-9685-ff5bb260df2e Balanced
8c5e7fda-e8bf-4a96-9a85-a6e23a8c635c High performance
a1841308-3541-4fab-bc81-f71556f20b4a Power saver

Are the Power Plan/timeout values the same with Win 8 vs Win 7?
I do not use Defender and never have. I also do not use Norton or MBAM. I use Avast Internet Security. AS for your question on the Win 8 registry, I don't know. I see that MS has a Public Preview. I will pas on that as I like 7 and for the reason below:

Quote:
Important
If you decide that you want to install Windows 8.1 Preview using the ISO, you won't be able to uninstall it. If you decide to go back to your previous operating system, you'll need to reinstall it using the recovery or installation media that came with your PC, which is typically DVD media. If you're running Windows 8 and you don't have recovery media, you might be able to create a USB recovery drive. If you're running Windows 7, Windows Vista, or Windows XP and you don’t have recovery media, you might be able to create it from a recovery partition on your PC using software provided by your PC manufacturer. Check the support section of your PC manufacturer’s website for more information. After you install Windows 8.1 Preview, you won’t be able to use the recovery partition on your PC to go back to your previous version of Windows.
Source
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jun 2013   #1285
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

You cannot uninstall any OS afaik. As long as you install it into a partition or another drive, you can always dual-boot and if you dislike it you simply format the other drive/partition.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jun 2013   #1286
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I was actually impressed with some of the improvements but they are too little too late. The UI is still too clunky for desktops. Even though one can now list all their programs, it's still harder to read than the simple lists available in Win7 and earlier. The search feature, even though it is much better than Win 7's, is clunkier than menus and not of much use if you can't remember what it is you are looking for, something easy to have happen if one has a lot of files. When I built my present desktop back in February, I bought two retail copies of Win 7 Ultimate and one of Home Premium. Had Win 8 started out with what it will have now, I might have considered it instead but, after that initial disaster, I've made the commitment to stay with Win 7 until its last dying gasp, same as I decided to stay with XP when Vista was thrust upon us. For the same reason, I upgraded to Office 2010 from 2007 to ensure I would have an office suite that would be usable through the lifespan of Win 7. I don't really care now how good Win 8 may become because I'm not wasting time and money replacing an OS, software, and hardware that are presently meeting my desktop needs.
Same here, declined Vista & stayed with XP until I bought a custom-built PC with 7.

I'm still running Office '03 since it's all I need but I know the support will expire next year at the same time as XP.

I'm not sure if I'd be more vulnerable if I kept running Office '03 after next April.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Strange. I never had problems with XP.
I don't recall having many problems with XP either. It seemed to be a fairly stable OS but I'm not an advanced PC user, no gaming, etc. I'm a basic user, 'net, Office, and a few programs.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
It is a bit more then just the Start orb and menu alone while that is a centralized point you work out from no longer seen in W8. From the Start menu, Windows Explorer if set to show at the bottom of any explorer window, or pinning the CP icon to the taskbar you can always get to everything in the Control Panel. In 8 instead you have to find the hidden right click menu right where the Start screen popup appears covering up that little tid bit. The CP link is hdden away in the menu there. The Crawler Toolbar that appears on the right side of the screen only reveals a limited number in the Apps and Settings but no Control Panel access. You are being bounced around looking for this or that hidden in this or that adding extra steps to each task! And now for the latest news about 8 continuing to fail regardless here's.... Windows 8 continues to fail | ZDNet
If I'm understanding this right, it's not good news for me as a "keyboard/shortcut" geek. It sounds like 8 is less "keyboard-shortcut" friendly but perhaps I have the wrong impression about that.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
I never used Vista because of all the bad reports by users.
Vista did do one great thing. It opened the door for Windows 7. Many good things from Vista went into Window7. Microsoft picked up the ball and ran with it and now we have a great system, Windows 7.
That's a good point. I never used Vista but hadn't considered this point. As a big 7 proponent, I'll Vista for that.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
And now you wonder why he is now the "former gui chief"?! He got out of the ring before the lions were released making himself a nice patsy to pass the blame on but now gone for MS to cover their.... ??? Let's say Win 8.1 won't be what saves their bacon in the long run! A closer look at what's new in Windows 8.1 | ZDNet So what's new? "Improved Apps"! and we know where that is going! Metro for Tablet while the desktop gets the toilet! IE 11 will allow unlimited number of tabbed windows for tabbed browsing.
IE10 has a limit on the number of tabs?

I haven't tried it, but the article said IE11 is not limited to 10 tabs. I've never tried to use that many tabs. I may use several at times, but not that many.

I'm still running IE9.
I'm also still running IE9 on my Desktop and I had 15 tabs opened a moment ago. I did that to test it after reading this post. I rarely have more than 4-5 tabs opened at the same time in IE9 .

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote:
“People need to realize Microsoft isn’t just going back to the way Windows 7 was.”

And Microsoft has to realize that people are just not going to buy their stuff any more. There are plenty of better alternatives.
I'd never have thought about this before Win 8, being a Win OS buyer since way back, but I may be forced to go this route if MS tries to accelerate a Win 7 phase-out with regards to support/security updates.

I don't require tablet technology for my lifestyle and don't forsee that on the horizon, having a Laptop for mobility when I travel. All of my data is in my hand, along with optical media capability.

Cloud strategy hasn't hooked me yet . I guess if one doesn't have a reliable backup scheme for their Desktops or Laptops, I can see a Cloud setup being useful.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post

Why ...Why does Microsoft have to be so stubborn about this, and just give their customers what they want - a Windows 7 style start menu! They just can't admit their idea of what customers want is misguided.
I've read this thought for years and I agree, arguably the "question of the home PC era". I wonder what a fly on the wall in top-level MS meetings would say to that question?

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
It's marketing! Remember to look at what would be the want for apps on a tablet sometime to see where MS wants to take people! Oh gosh golly Windows 8.1 Blue unveiled, will it...??? Windows 8.1 unveiled: will it change your mind about Windows 8? | ZDNet Sorry no go here! 7 to stay for the time being at least! I run desktops not tablets.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there
What exactly am I missing --and I'm a lowly Engineer so the hotshots at Ms who actually DESIGN and WRITE windows should be able to understand far better than me.

A DESKTOP OS is totally different in operation and conception from a MOBILE PHONE / TABLET OS -- so why on earth have Ms apparently given up on the desktop - desktops (probably in the form of laptops) aren't going away any time soon - there are 100,000's of scenarios where a tablet or phone isn't suitable.

It's just SO obvious that I really fail to understand what exactly Ms's problem is. Make the OS capable in of running in TWO user selectable modes. Can't be that difficult - after all people have added 3rd party stuff like Start 8 etc.

I have to surmise that it's really case of egos and politics.

Let's hope somebody starts teaching "Real world situations" to these guys.

Cheers
jimbo
I've had discussions with some that are telling me "The Desktop/Laptop is going away. It's the Tablet/Cloud time in history now."

I'm not convinced of this though.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jun 2013   #1287
gregrocker

 

Just ask yourself: How is the great mass of the world's productive work - that which drives the world economy - done on a tablet?

It is done on a desktop utilizing an optimal Desktop Experience which Windows perfected in Win7 and inexplicably abandoned in Win8 chasing some faddish apps to monetize - apps that no one wants.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jun 2013   #1288
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

@ bobafetthotmail
Of course there are alternative software packages. However, the professional world uses MS Office and sending a Libre office document would send a negative message IMO and wouldn't work if the document (eg Excel) contained macros. I doubt a serious professional photographer would be using GIMP. Then we could go on to specialist CAD packages etc etc.
It would be nice if these constraints did not exist but I believe until a strong unified linux OS is accepted, linux will be a fringe range of OSs that none of the professional software houses will support. Just my opinion of course.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jun 2013   #1289
SIW2

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Vista x64 / 7 X64
 
 

You can't get more pro software than lightworks. Tarantino uses it to edit his movies. Now the Linux version is available to all. It is getting better. In the meantime, one can if needed use an online version of MS Office. As MS becomes less dominant, so too will the other MS programs they used their dominance to push.

Photographers will continue to use Macs exclusively whatever happens.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jun 2013   #1290
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

SIW2,
you highlight that the software business; OS through to applications are in a high state of flux. I wouldn't want to be an MS executive at this stage unless I had a good severance package in place.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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