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Windows 7: More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

07 Jul 2013   #1361
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
The entire purpose of metro is to get users into MS online services, ads and other monetising schemes.
And you could say the same for Apple, Google, Facebook, etc., as stated earlier; all of their services are monetizing schemes just as well. So, why is it a OK to do for one company but not the other?
None said that. The review in the article is about windows 8.1, so ignoring the other offenders is normal imho. I mean, everyone knows that Apple, Google and Factbook are doing this, but the news is that this seems to be the future for MS as well.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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07 Jul 2013   #1362
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
And you could say the same for Apple, Google, Facebook, etc., as stated earlier; all of their services are monetizing schemes just as well. So, why is it a OK to do for one company but not the other?
Those companies did not develop a desktop experience perfected in Win7 which is used for much of the productive work that drives the world economy, and suits consumer needs that are more productive than social. I can knock out a dozen Forums posts on a desktop or laptop in the time it takes to do one on an Ipad or IPhone.

Most of those companies actually created the Social media platforms and content that tempted MS so much to overreact to Ipad and rework their business model to monetize Apps and eventually the OS - completely abandoning it's strength with the productive desktop experience.

Go to any office store or Best Buy and ask them the effect of Win8 on PC sales. Even though they're now being subsidized by MS to take the loss, the fabled decline of the desktop is almost entirely a self-inflicted prophecy. That they think the world's productive work will end up on the Surface is almost pitiable. This is such an unmitigated disaster that it makes New Coke seem like a drop in the bucket.

Are we disloyal to MS when we are the home here to their only successful product, which saved them from Vista and may still save them from Ate? The quality support for the best OS ever has always been right here and we will not be moved to join any suicide pact.
By the time the RC was out back in 2009 I could easily say that whatever came afterwards would be a herd sell since 7 took off from the start as a working OS! Keeping that in mind you would at least expect MS would learn to follow the trend of success 7 brought in with it for seeing a long to live type desktop experience.

The Google jump on the IPxx band wagon with their own Android as well as seeing Google getting into the OS business along with the trend for phone apps growing as that market grew just wasn't something MS was going to pass up on however. The problem is however is that instead of simply staying with RT as the new OS for Surface as well as ARM they decided the next Windows version would be geared for mobile as well as getting all those online subscriptions sold.

The Pro? MS can jump in on the action producing Surface for less to slam dunk the other two by offering more. The Con? MS seems to have abandoned the working desktop needs when producting a Windows without windows! Instead of seeing a second OS develop and continue for Surface they dumped RT on the desktop by simply filling in the gap not having any new desktop ideas to put out there. End user stiffed while MS ponders on mobile gimics and Cloud.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Well by now you realize that "there is a sucker born every minute" that will chew into the "get you coming and going" crud that's being served up! Scroll down using the Apps button at the bottom of the 8.1 Preview to see what's in store for the guilable!

Let's see a look at some of those prepackaged tiles includes: Finance, Food & Drink, Health&Fitness, Music, News, People, replace the word Scan for "SCAM"? naaaa... Marketing gimic!, Sports, Store(MS Store obviously), Travel, and then use the slider to scroll over to the right for what is offscreen and find the things you should be seeing like Calc, NotePad, Paint, Remote, Snipping tool, WMP, etc. with Weather stuffed in between the two screens.

Obviously MS has some new angles being pursued at the same they promote their new Surface Tablet series.
Yes, Nighthawk, I agree that most of the apps should be re-named CRapps, but there are one or two that are OK. I use the weather app, and one game (Pinball FX2) and that's about it, app-wise.

But in 8.1, you need never even see the Start Screen, and you don't need 3rd-party stuff to do it. Simply right-click on the task-bar then go to Properties>Navigation. There, you can customise how Win 8.1 starts, and what it starts to. See pic 2 below.

The All Apps screen can be accessed directly now, without having to go through the Start Screen. All Apps is still somewhat shambolic, but new customising options do help. With a few more options (like being able to hide and move tiles more easily), it could become a viable Start menu. The potential is there. See pic 1 below.

There are at least two ways to get a replacement (of sorts) for the Win 7 Start menu without resorting to 3rd-party programs like Classic Shell or StartIsBack. Firstly, there's the old and all-but-forgotten Quick-Launch tool bar.

Enable Quick-Launch toolbar by first unlocking the taskbar. Then right-click on the task-bar and go Toolbars>New Toolbar. Then drill down to C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer. Highlight, but do not open, the Quick Launch Folder, then click on OK. Go back to the task-bar, and you'll see it is enabled. Configure it by moving the two vertical bars, then re-lock the task-bar. Done! See pic 3 below.

There's also a version of the old 'Win 95/98/XP classic' Start menu cleverly hidden in 8 and 8.1 as well. I used it on the Win 8 DP before I discovered 3rd-party fixes, and it works reasonably well.

Enable 'Classic' Start Menu by following Jimbo's tutorial here... More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8 - Page 18 - Windows 7 Support Forums See pic 4 below.

I do agree re the boiling-water syndrome, and I have come in for some flak on EF for my dislike of the always-online, pay-as-you-go direction MS is heading, and my dislike/distrust of the 'cloud' but I've found ways to avoid, both in 8 and 8.1 So long as I have the choice, it's fine. But I'll dump MS like a hot spud the day I no longer have the choice.

Sorry for such a long post, but I do hope some may find it useful or helpful. And no, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or being a fanboi for 8.1


Wenda.

All screenshots taken from Windows 8.1 preview.
I haven't gone over everything on the Preview quite yet simply having put it on a VM for the time being as a reference install more then anything. MS simply added the optional settings in the properties rather then any signaficant reverse direction as far as moving away from the desktop platform as it shows for itself.

As far as addon quick launch toolbars already done on 7 as well as having been done to supliement the Quick Launch section on the Vista taskbar previously in order to expand on what could be placed there prior to seeing the pin to taskbar option brought in with 7.(another plus for 7!)

To some extent I couldn't feel sorry for those who rushed to slam dunk 8 CP and RP builds on one drive laptops or desktops running 7 without first considering a full system image and not having any 7 installation media to put 7 back on with. The same could said for 8.1 as far as nor being in any rush to simply try and upgrade over or replace 7.

Options? If you only have one HD try the free version of VMware's VM Player or the Oracle VirtualBox to see 8.1 go on a VM to look it over there. Why trash what you have working now for something most simply won't want to be keeping?!

I think once people actually realize the gimic wares are now being thrown in their faces that will be a wake up call. Metro and now 8.1 are not gradual changes from desktop to subscription but a fast slam dunk being promoted by MS out of the clear "Blue"! Windows Blue that is! And MS sits back and says: "We have a totally new motivation just for you whether you like it or not! Isn't it wonderful?!"

blahhhhh... as the naive typical user is scratching his or her head wondering "What ever happened to Windows i wonder?" Other companies like SUN with their own OS also sit back and watch as they see their competitor dump the desktop platform and come out with an immediate fail just to get in on the mobile/online subscription ideas a bit late.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1363
Wenda

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 32-bit; Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (VM).
 
 

@NightHawk: Sorry if I came across as 'teaching grandmother to suck eggs' re the Quick-launch, that was not my intention, and that part of my comment was aimed at readers in general, not you in particular. Again, my apologies. My comments here are also mainly for general consumption, except the points of yours I specifically address.

I couldn't agree more with your comment regarding those who 'rush in where angels fear to tread' by installing betas etc without taking a working system image first. Especially since there are warnings literally everywhere advising against doing so, including here and on MS' own site.

All my OSes from XP on have current images, and a new image is taken whenever I make major changes or once a month/six weeks, whichever happens first. Although I'm currently running 8.1 on this machine, both its Win 8 image and its Win 7 image are sitting there ready to go if required. Having a working system image also means I need never fear attempting upgrade installs, if the install fails or isn't satisfactory, I just bring an image over. Easy!

And yes, if 'you' don't want to do that, a VM is a perfectly acceptable alternative. As some of you may know, I collect operating systems, so a program like Virtual-Box is essential to me. Mine currently has 14 (yes, you read that right, 14) different OSes in it, and runs to nearly 45GB in size. I had intended to toss 8.1 in there as well, but I believe that the best way to test an OS (rather than just playing with it) is to use it under real-world, real-workload conditions. So, it's a standalone setup.

I'm also in agreement with you regarding the 'gimmicky' nature of much of Metro. Fortunately much of it can easily be disabled or ignored by experienced users, but, like you, I fear that the inexperienced, or those who simply 'don't care as long as it works and I can get Angry Birds' mob will be suckered.

Once again, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or behave like a fanboi, because a fanboi I'm most certainly not. There are aspects of both W8 and W8.1 that I dislike intensely (mainly related to their trying to drag me into 'cloud computing' in which I have less than no interest whatsoever), and indeed I have copped several blasts from real fanbois on EF, ZDnet and other places for voicing my concerns.

What I am trying to do is offer a balanced view of 8.1 without the FUD or the 'my mate says it suxors, so I won't be installing it' or the 'I tried it for ten minutes, it suxored, I've gone back to XP' attitude, but also without the 'Windows 8.1 is the duck's guts, it's flawless, and anyone who doesn't like it 110% is a dinosaur' rubbish either.

No, it's not perfect, and it will not satisfy the 'h8-ers'. But nor is it an unusable pile of poo that's no use to 'desktop' users either. I've found it to have no impact on my productivity, and if you've used W8 it's easy to learn. All the bogus net-centricity can be turned off, once this is done and the start menu of your choice is installed (if desired) 8.1 is certainly as good as either Win 7 or Win 8 in desktop mode (IMO, better than 8, almost on par with 7), and is way ahead of Win 8 when it comes to Metro. Which you never have to see unless you actually want to.

Cheers, all!


Wenda.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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07 Jul 2013   #1364
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
The entire purpose of metro is to get users into MS online services, ads and other monetising schemes.
And you could say the same for Apple, Google, Facebook, etc., as stated earlier; all of their services are monetizing schemes just as well. So, why is it a OK to do for one company but not the other?...
I don't use anything from Apple, don't use Fakebook (sic), etc., and have cut my Google usage down to just Google maps (and I'm looking for a suitable replacement for Google maps).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1365
Wenda

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 32-bit; Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (VM).
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
The entire purpose of metro is to get users into MS online services, ads and other monetising schemes.
And you could say the same for Apple, Google, Facebook, etc., as stated earlier; all of their services are monetizing schemes just as well. So, why is it a OK to do for one company but not the other?...
I don't use anything from Apple, don't use Fakebook (sic), etc., and have cut my Google usage down to just Google maps (and I'm looking for a suitable replacement for Google maps).
Fakebook???

I like it. Good one.

I call it 'Farce-book', myself....


Wenda.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1366
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
And you could say the same for Apple, Google, Facebook, etc., as stated earlier; all of their services are monetizing schemes just as well. So, why is it a OK to do for one company but not the other?...
I don't use anything from Apple, don't use Fakebook (sic), etc., and have cut my Google usage down to just Google maps (and I'm looking for a suitable replacement for Google maps).
Fakebook???

I like it. Good one.

I call it 'Farce-book', myself....


Wenda.
Oooooh! Farcebook! Me likes it!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1367
Lone Browncoat

2000Pro,XP SP3 x86..W7 on next build
 
 

At the risk of incurring the ire of all you other users here, the foundation of what's happening, that is the push to cloud/subscriptions today harkens back to all your sheepish acceptance of this activation nonsense,starting with XP.
(look what happened with AnyDVD)

You gave Microslop this inch and now they want that proverbial mile [and that's a nautical mile, not a standard/imperial] they've said to themselves, "the sheep have accepted activation for ten years now, lets' push the envelope and see if we can get them to pay by the year or month even".

There was even the inside push to kill the previous non-activation Redmond OSs by moving to the use of Visual Studio 2010+ as the compiler as it contains no support for 2000 Pro or the 9x/Me series. Though those smarter than me have created the modified kernels and unofficial rollups/service packs to get around these obstacles. I have mentioned previously in earlier posts.

Which is why, and I admit, I've gone pirate, with XP and two copies of 7-in-waiting. I really don't care, to me that is the main weakness of having a disk-based operating system, other than the obvious viral attacks. It serves them right, from what's-his-name all the way back to Gates.

A page or two back, one poster indicated that in Europe/elsewhere, Linux, in many flavours, is accepted as a viable business alternative. So it was once with the Atari Mega, MegaSTE and TT series, from simple bookkeeping and databases to point-of-sale[complete with card readers] and CADD services and other third-party applications not heard of in N.America because of the *ahem* stigma of Atari being 'just' a game company and unfortunately that was the misfortune of the computer division. Plus the general lack of understanding of this continent's majority. However if those machines ever had disk failures, they could still boot as the ROM-Based OS was still there, loading into memory. Plus Apple, which was also rom-based (search "Gemulator" *under emulators) had a much larger ad campaign in the world's once largest market [us] at the time.

I guess that's all I want to say about cloud/subscription OSs/software and my fond wish that the future would have unfolded differently.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1368
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote:
the sheep have accepted activation for ten years now, lets' push the envelope and see if we can get them to pay by the year or month even
I don't see why activation is wrong.
It actually allows you to buy a license without any hardware. Otherwise you would have to buy a disk or a whole machine (for smartphones and similar where there is no proper OS, only ROM).

It's completely irrelevant in stopping piracy, but it's actually useful.

The issue is that they want to stop piracy, and subscriptions/cloud stuff are a good idea.
It's more or less the equivalent of those retarded game DRM that required constant online access to ensure they remained activated.
For a game that is still largely irrelevant, but for an OS it's harder to get away with pirating it if half of its stuff is cloud-based.

Quote:
Which is why, and I admit, I've gone pirate, with XP and two copies of 7-in-waiting.
This might cause an instant-ban. Generally bad idea to admit. Was a pleasure talking with you anyway.

Quote:
A page or two back, one poster indicated that in Europe/elsewhere, Linux, in many flavours, is accepted as a viable business alternative.
Yeah, here linux derivatives are second most common after pirated XPs. Although pirating stuff is much more prevalent than linux, at least 3 to 1 ratio. All non-pirated medium-sized servers I saw run some linux distro or hypervisor.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1369
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Lone Browncoat if you don't like or agree with a method to activate a legal copy of Windows what would you suggest?
Their has to be a way for a company to ascertain if their product was acquired in a legal fashion.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1370
Wenda

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 32-bit; Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (VM).
 
 

I've got heaps of OSes, some MS, many not. Some are open-source, others are not. Some are free, some are not.

But none of them are pirated. I have legitimate product-keys for all my MS stuff except for the really old MS products which don't require a product key. I still have the original disks for them, so I'm covered there as well.

So, if I can manage to run all those, legally, one would think someone would be able to manage one OS without needing to pirate it. It's not as if legal copies, especially of XP, are that hard or expensive to source.

It can't be that hard. Surely.


Wenda.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8




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