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Windows 7: More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

07 Jul 2013   #1371
x BlueRobot

 

Does Windows 98 still require a purchased product key?


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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07 Jul 2013   #1372
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
@NightHawk: Sorry if I came across as 'teaching grandmother to suck eggs' re the Quick-launch, that was not my intention, and that part of my comment was aimed at readers in general, not you in particular. Again, my apologies. My comments here are also mainly for general consumption, except the points of yours I specifically address.

I couldn't agree more with your comment regarding those who 'rush in where angels fear to tread' by installing betas etc without taking a working system image first. Especially since there are warnings literally everywhere advising against doing so, including here and on MS' own site.

All my OSes from XP on have current images, and a new image is taken whenever I make major changes or once a month/six weeks, whichever happens first. Although I'm currently running 8.1 on this machine, both its Win 8 image and its Win 7 image are sitting there ready to go if required. Having a working system image also means I need never fear attempting upgrade installs, if the install fails or isn't satisfactory, I just bring an image over. Easy!

And yes, if 'you' don't want to do that, a VM is a perfectly acceptable alternative. As some of you may know, I collect operating systems, so a program like Virtual-Box is essential to me. Mine currently has 14 (yes, you read that right, 14) different OSes in it, and runs to nearly 45GB in size. I had intended to toss 8.1 in there as well, but I believe that the best way to test an OS (rather than just playing with it) is to use it under real-world, real-workload conditions. So, it's a standalone setup.

I'm also in agreement with you regarding the 'gimmicky' nature of much of Metro. Fortunately much of it can easily be disabled or ignored by experienced users, but, like you, I fear that the inexperienced, or those who simply 'don't care as long as it works and I can get Angry Birds' mob will be suckered.

Once again, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or behave like a fanboi, because a fanboi I'm most certainly not. There are aspects of both W8 and W8.1 that I dislike intensely (mainly related to their trying to drag me into 'cloud computing' in which I have less than no interest whatsoever), and indeed I have copped several blasts from real fanbois on EF, ZDnet and other places for voicing my concerns.

What I am trying to do is offer a balanced view of 8.1 without the FUD or the 'my mate says it suxors, so I won't be installing it' or the 'I tried it for ten minutes, it suxored, I've gone back to XP' attitude, but also without the 'Windows 8.1 is the duck's guts, it's flawless, and anyone who doesn't like it 110% is a dinosaur' rubbish either.

No, it's not perfect, and it will not satisfy the 'h8-ers'. But nor is it an unusable pile of poo that's no use to 'desktop' users either. I've found it to have no impact on my productivity, and if you've used W8 it's easy to learn. All the bogus net-centricity can be turned off, once this is done and the start menu of your choice is installed (if desired) 8.1 is certainly as good as either Win 7 or Win 8 in desktop mode (IMO, better than 8, almost on par with 7), and is way ahead of Win 8 when it comes to Metro. Which you never have to see unless you actually want to.

Cheers, all!


Wenda.
Wenda, There's a lot of helpful info here. I like your "imaging' practice too. I'm mainly a "cloner", always having a couple of cloned HDD's on the shelf in the event of intrusions (malware, etc, that's too time-consuming to clean up) or in the event of a "user" error... me . I haven't gotten into the imaging part much but I want to get proficient with that soon.

I've only had a little time with 8 at a demo setup in a store. As mainly a Desktop/Laptop guy, I may not have the need for 8 in the foreseeable future since I don't own any of the modern mobile devices but that may change down the road.

I've picked up a lot of useful info in this thread, in the event that I feel compelled to switch to 8(.1). It's good to know that a 3rd-party install may not be necessary (Classic Shell, etc) to get 8.1 to be useable on a Desktop but my plan is to stick with 7 as long as possible, since it's by far the best Windows OS that I've seen for my home Desktop/Laptop use.

That's probably a skewed pov though, since I went from XP to 7 without a Vista experience to compare that with 7.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1373
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lone Browncoat View Post
(look what happened with AnyDVD)
What was that?
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07 Jul 2013   #1374
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote:
the sheep have accepted activation for ten years now, lets' push the envelope and see if we can get them to pay by the year or month even
I don't see why activation is wrong.
It actually allows you to buy a license without any hardware. Otherwise you would have to buy a disk or a whole machine (for smartphones and similar where there is no proper OS, only ROM).

It's completely irrelevant in stopping piracy, but it's actually useful.

The issue is that they want to stop piracy, and subscriptions/cloud stuff are a good idea.
It's more or less the equivalent of those retarded game DRM that required constant online access to ensure they remained activated.
For a game that is still largely irrelevant, but for an OS it's harder to get away with pirating it if half of its stuff is cloud-based.
One of the reasonc for activation wasn't just to fight piracy in general as far as illegal dupes getting out but you could easily install each Legacy version on countless machines with only one product key that came with the floppy set or cd(s) at the time. PLUS! editions of 9x as well as ME and 2000/NT would see extra disks or floppies included. Those were for additional Windows components and network resource disks back then.

As far as must connect to account set up online to play game installed on local pc it gets a bit tiresome! If you put a retail disk with one Like STEAM the product key instantly activates to that one install of Windows before you can do anything to avert that part.(like needing to buy a second disk after that happened on the 7 RC). If you had already been running with one of their collection disks the duplicate key error would appear if Windows was reinstalled for any reason! You can't even perform a repair without that getting in the way! GGRRRRR... "take your ... and shove it!"

As you can see it can also be aggravating at times having spent out more then once for the exact same thing. You see that with other softwares as well where you have to be "connected online" or simply have an IE window open when going to uninstall first before performing any upgrade to repair or full clean install of Windows to prevent reaching the activation limit of 2 or 3 if the company allows for OS problems or hardware upgrades.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1375
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
All my OSes from XP on have current images, and a new image is taken whenever I make major changes or once a month/six weeks, whichever happens first. Although I'm currently running 8.1 on this machine, both its Win 8 image and its Win 7 image are sitting there ready to go if required. Having a working system image also means I need never fear attempting upgrade installs, if the install fails or isn't satisfactory, I just bring an image over. Easy!
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
There's a lot of helpful info here. I like your "imaging' practice too. I'm mainly a "cloner", always having a couple of cloned HDD's on the shelf in the event of intrusions (malware, etc, that's too time-consuming to clean up) or in the event of a "user" error... me . I haven't gotten into the imaging part much but I want to get proficient with that soon.
I always image my operating systems and important data partitions, before installing any Windows updates.
That means I only have to go back a month in the worst case scenario.

I often create an image when I install software that I'm not sure of, or that has proven to be troublesome in the past (e.g. graphics drivers ).

I have backup copies of my VMs on external HDDs.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Jul 2013   #1376
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
I always image my operating systems and important data partitions, before installing any Windows updates.
That means I only have to go back a month in the worst case scenario.

I often create an image when I install software that I'm not sure of, or that has proven to be troublesome in the past (e.g. graphics drivers ).

I have backup copies of my VMs on external HDDs.
That's a good practice. I'm doing it with cloning but it's not as flexible as imaging. I always have a cloned HDD that's 6 weeks old, cloning to that HDD every 6 weeks. I have another cloned HDD that I keep for emergency use.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Jul 2013   #1377
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
That's a good practice. I'm doing it with cloning but it's not as flexible as imaging. I always have a cloned HDD that's 6 weeks old, cloning to that HDD every 6 weeks. I have another cloned HDD that I keep for emergency use.
It's difficult for me to sound unbiased when I admit I am . I think cloning may lull people into the false belief that they have some better copy of their drive than what imaging can provide. It simply isn't true. To create a standby OS drive using imaging is really straightforward. With all due respect cloning every 6 weeks is not the way I would approach backups.
I have an image no older than 2 weeks old and will create a new one sooner if I install some new software or updates. I keep images spanning a number of months and use two 1TB ext USB3 HDDs and two imaging programs (Windows 7 native imaging and Macrium Reflect). Any one of these can be restoring to the existing drive or a brand new one in ~ 12minutes.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Jul 2013   #1378
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mjf View Post
It's difficult for me to sound unbiased when I admit I am . I think cloning may lull people into the false belief that they have some better copy of their drive than what imaging can provide. It simply isn't true. To create a standby OS drive using imaging is really straightforward. With all due respect cloning every 6 weeks is not the way I would approach backups.
I have an image no older than 2 weeks old and will create a new one sooner if I install some new software or updates. I keep images spanning a number of months and use two 1TB ext USB3 HDDs and two imaging programs (Windows 7 native imaging and Macrium Reflect). Any one of these can be restoring to the existing drive or a brand new one in ~ 12minutes.
Thanks for the input. I'm wanting to learn more about the imaging scene but haven't gotten into it much yet.

I started the cloning action back in October '11 as a way to have a plug-play HDD in the event of an intrusion. It's paid off for me a couple of times since then when I had a couple of annoying intrusions that didn't clean up with safe-mode scans from my previous AV, so I plugged in my clone HDD and was running in a few minutes.

I also run a twice-daily Acronis backup for some specific "must-have" folders & files. That's also copied over to my Laptop.

I tried using Acronis (2011 ver) Backup/Restore, which I believe is their imaging function to another HDD. The "backup" portion of the operation ran for about 5 hrs. I'm not sure if that's typical for a 1 Tb HDD that has about 40-45% used space.

I just haven't yet spent the time with imaging but I want to get up to speed with it as I can see the advantages of that approach.

Imo, there are pros & cons to both pov's, cloning, imaging. I guess it depends on what the user's goal is, with one or the other choice.

I'd like to do both as I have a couple of spare 500Gb HDD's that aren't currently in use.

I have heard of Macrium and have read some about that product at their site. I like what I'm reading there and may try that one as an alternative to Acronis.

The Acronis cloning is simple and fast for me and provides a fast replacement in the event of a Source HDD failure or intrusion. I've also used Clonezilla a couple of times.

I was running Raid 1 for a while on my Desktop but disabled that for a couple of reasons. One was that I had an intermittent RAM issue that was causing Raid array glitches. The other reason is that Raid 1 won't offer a fast recovery in the event of intrusions as both HDD's are mirrored and will get hit with the same bug.

All good info here, as I'm a compared to 99% of the posters here in Windows/PC knowledge. I can hold up better in an "Astronomy" thread vs a Windows/PC thread
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Jul 2013   #1379
gregrocker

 

You might find it easier to use one of the modern automated backup and sync methods such as this one to Sync, Backup and Store your Files to the Cloud with Skydrive - Windows 7 Forums.

I've been using it for over a year without lifting a finger, or any problems. My files are all sync'd across all PC's with the same file master set available on the web.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Jul 2013   #1380
Jacee
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by x BlueRobot View Post
Does Windows 98 still require a purchased product key?
My Window 98 2nd edition CD has a product key and a Certificate of Authenticity. The instructions say you have to "register" (not activate) your copy of 98.
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 More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8




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