More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

Night Hawk · 14 Jul 2013

Iforgot said:

But
Who does backups on a Tablet??????

Gosh don't you know:

(1) You can a 32gb SD memory card on many models?

(2) How about that usb port for flash drive backups?

(3) All the wonders of convenience and any??? worries about viruses, malwares on a hand held with an embedded OS are automatically put aside

It does kind of make you wonder why anyone would even consider any need there. Students doing term papers or some other task that requires only a small amount of drive space to begin with like customer orders for a salesman on the go would be about the size of it there.

But that's also where MS is leaning at the tablet side of life foresaking the things that made the pc a desirable item in the home environment now being stripped away courtesy of MS. What? MS foresake all of it's new 3d party backers for those fantastic tiles?

Never! Since MS improved the security by actually putting in something that catches malwares it sought out 3rd party help for all those tiles! At least Google-litis already has it's own bots and other gimic wares simply being brought out in Android.

Is it a harsh crticism? Well simply look back at what was in and now out of Windows to see the commotion is all about.

Well one example many never use the Media Center that was an option tossed in following XP MCE in 2005. That was in but wouldn't be missed much by the many who never use it. I have a PCIe tuner card with it's own form of MC provided by the card manufacturer and still couldn't use it without a paid subscription to a service not even needed.

WMP dvd playback won't be missed by many since many could say who cares about WMPlayer to begin with preferring other players free and retail. VLC works as a good sub for both audio and video being a freebie. Cyberlink has some great paid for players. And MS figured who needs support in what they added into WMP 10 since 9 included in XP lacked that entirely. Now 8 and 8.1 come along and no loss?!

But the all time original hate at first sight goober award obviously can only be given for TABLET RT gui on what they call Windows a supposedly desktop OS??? Most that wouldn't even take the time to find a 3rd party option that should never have been needed in the first place won't go looking for an app like Classic Shell but simply want to get an older version to replace 8 for certain and with the preview you get to boot to the desktop directly as an option but.... "And the Goober Award goes to... "MS"!!!" grand stands the...

Iforgot · 14 Jul 2013

Did I hit a nerve there?
ooops

Exactly, No one really keeps data on the tablet, It's always saved onto or worked off a usb/SD.

Maybe the students realize to do there real wok on a doc, you need a desktop pc.

I wonder if the programmers in M$ are doing their codeing on the actual tablet or on a desktop, then transfer to tablet for testing?

"Media Center" was in Vista and Win7 premium, was quite good too.
Don't need it in Win8.... no tuner cards for a tablet..

"MS improved the security by actually putting in something that catches malwares"
M$ tried the basic form of security with Vista, but got slammed for it.
All the little geniuses complaining about putting a password in.
They wanted to log in with admin accounts like XP did standard.

jimbo45 · 14 Jul 2013

lehnerus2000 said:

Night Hawk said:

Well MS wants everybody to start buying 3rd party options for just about anything if not everything you once saw included. You may find a new tile some time for a 3rd party imaging ware offer.

That would be the apparent direction they are going.

Seems believable to me.

Hi there
Don't forget it wasn't Ms but people like the EU commission who said that Ms need to allow 3rd part developers to compete (Anti-Competition legislation or things like that).

IBM when it was a serious computer manufacturer had a HUGE lawsuit against it for similar alleged "Offences" and if any of you can remember the old IBM mainframe systems the OS (things like OS-MVS370) were supplied with Compiler utilites (FORTRAN, COBOL, PL/1 etc) and other utilities such as SORT, a security package - RACF, TSO (time sharing option -- the online Foreground processes like terminal services) etc. They were then forced to UNBUNDLE a lot of these so you can't blame Ms on this one.

In any case what's wrong with people developing something BETTER than the original manufacturer has designed or finding a GAP in the market and filling it.

What is wrong is artificial competition just for competition's sake -- for example in the UK you used to have one PAY TV sport service showing all the Football matches (soccer) which was SKY. Competition legislation required some of the matches were made available to ANOTHER provider - which used to be SATANTA, then ESPN, and now BT as a competitor.

So is it better for the consumer -- Not really since instead of a monthly subscription which gave you ALL the games you now have to pay TWO sets of subscriptions (i.e MORE) to receive the same service.

So again I would suggest "Be very careful what you ask for".

From what I've seen of W8.1 though I'm getting less and less impressed as there seems this inevitable push to cloud services, subscription services and pay pay pay for everything (the current terminology is that DREADFUL word "Monetisation" - the person who invented that term should be taken to the nearest public town square and publicly flogged within an inch of his / her life !!!!).

Cheers
jimbo

Iforgot · 14 Jul 2013

Jimbo
Maybe not the person who invented the term, just the people who put it to practice.

And the excuse is always " for the shareholders"

jimbo45 · 14 Jul 2013

Iforgot said:

Jimbo
Maybe not the person who invented the term, just the people who put it to practice.

And the excuse is always " for the shareholders"

Hi there
We can't always condemn shareholders -- sometimes businesses only get started if you find people who are prepared to take a risk and put up some of the money --they should deserve some sort of "reward".

I'm also not sure what the typical retirement pension is in the USA or in 'OZ but without some of the pension companies (also shareholders) being able to make profits people's retirement income would be really poor. -- Might not seem much to people who are say in their mid 20's or younger -- but remember with decent living and health care standards you could find you live as long AFTER retirement as you are working -- where I am it's quite common for people to live well into their 80's and 90's and are still very healthy. Say you start work (full time) at 21 and work till 65 that's 34 years. You could easily live another 34 years after retirement. !!!

Where I disagree with some of the commercial practices is people making a short term "quick buck" regardless of what the future good of the company is and above all sheer corporate Greed. Decent long term investment shouldn't be a problem really.

@Iforgot -- The Aussies seem to be closing in on a Ist test match victory currently -- even I am getting interested in this and I really know next to nothing about cricket. Watching on an Internet feed -- must admit some of my colleagues in the Bar I'm having my breakfast in haven't a clue what I'm watching !!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

bobafetthotmail · 14 Jul 2013

Night Hawk said:

Iforgot said:

But
Who does backups on a Tablet??????

Gosh don't you know:

(1) You can a 32gb SD memory card on many models?

(2) How about that usb port for flash drive backups?

(3) All the wonders of convenience and any??? worries about viruses, malwares on a hand held with an embedded OS are automatically put aside

Android is basically immune to virus by how it is made. The system partition is mounted as read-only, and there is no way of changing that without flashing stuff from outside to root the phone first (rooting= gaining admin privileges, or SuperUser as linux calls it).

This does not mean that your privacy is intact though. Especially because it's a Google's pet project.

Besides, doing backups of data is just making a copy. No need for fancy words or imaging software.

Night Hawk said:

Well MS wants everybody to start buying 3rd party options for just about anything if not everything you once saw included. You may find a new tile some time for a 3rd party imaging ware offer.

That would be the apparent direction they are going.

It's a very basic cost-gain assessment. Doing like that allows them to pay less developers (as there are less features so less coding time used) while getting paid by third party companies to add their stuff on the tile ads.

Add piracy to the scheme, and what happens? they still get payed from the ads even if the OS is pirated!
You know how big is the userbase using pirated windows?

I smell amazing profits in this scheme. Besides, I mildly agree. I'm tired of MS pushing its software for the sake of it even if there are better and cheaper alternatives.

Don't forget it wasn't Ms but people like the EU commission who said that Ms need to allow 3rd part developers to compete (Anti-Competition legislation or things like that).

I didn't see a EU court ruling that. They bashed a bit on Interent Explorer and browser choice, but that's it. Or am I missing something?

jimbo45 · 14 Jul 2013

bobafetthotmail said:

Night Hawk said:

Iforgot said:

But
Who does backups on a Tablet??????

Gosh don't you know:

(1) You can a 32gb SD memory card on many models?

(2) How about that usb port for flash drive backups?

(3) All the wonders of convenience and any??? worries about viruses, malwares on a hand held with an embedded OS are automatically put aside

Android is basically immune to virus by how it is made. The system partition is mounted as read-only, and there is no way of changing that without flashing stuff from outside to root the phone first (rooting= gaining admin privileges, or SuperUser as linux calls it).

This does not mean that your privacy is intact though. Especially because it's a Google's pet project.

Besides, doing backups of data is just making a copy. No need for fancy words or imaging software.

Night Hawk said:

Well MS wants everybody to start buying 3rd party options for just about anything if not everything you once saw included. You may find a new tile some time for a 3rd party imaging ware offer.

That would be the apparent direction they are going.

It's a very basic cost-gain assessment. Doing like that allows them to pay less developers (as there are less features so less coding time used) while getting paid by third party companies to add their stuff on the tile ads.

Add piracy to the scheme, and what happens? they still get payed from the ads even if the OS is pirated!
You know how big is the userbase using pirated windows?

I smell amazing profits in this scheme. Besides, I mildly agree. I'm tired of MS pushing its software for the sake of it even if there are better and cheaper alternatives.

Don't forget it wasn't Ms but people like the EU commission who said that Ms need to allow 3rd part developers to compete (Anti-Competition legislation or things like that).

I didn't see a EU court ruling that. They bashed a bit on Interent Explorer and browser choice, but that's it. Or am I missing something?

Hi there
It was the EU --that's why you get that ridiculous Browser Choice screen thrust up when you install a European version of Windows or the first time you start IE.

Note also Android is only a variation of Linux so it's not 100% immune to Viruses. If you are running from a READ ONLY device then of course it can't be attacked however that doesn't mean to say that user installable applications can't contain viruses that can do unpredictable things - and on a phone where people tend to give out far more information than they would when they are at a Computer Terminal you could be very much more at risk.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen any decent AV software for Android applications yet -- mind you most phone apps IMO are pretty junk anyway - except for a few travel ones and a SATNAV app.

Cheers
jimbo

bobafetthotmail · 14 Jul 2013

Yes, EU courts ruled that specific thing (that I personally approve). But I don't see any EU court ruling that MS must stop doing anything else. I mean, there is no monopoly in imaging tools so it makes no sense to rule over that.

If you are running from a READ ONLY device then of course it can't be attacked however that doesn't mean to say that user installable applications can't contain viruses that can do unpredictable things

The only reason I say it's immune to virus itself is that the system partition is read-only. Even a windows 98 is immune to virus if it's read-only. Apps are run in their own VM space with no contact with other apps (they only talk with the system).

The only malware that can run on Android is scamware, that is an app disguising as another app, stealing info you input into it (or asking payments from the credit card you linked to the Google Play account).
Or stuff that runs on a rooted phone with some kind of consent from the user, as that removes any restriction.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen any decent AV software for Android applications yet

That's because you just need a good firewall and a rooted phone to give it SU permission (and an app like SuperUser or similar to keep other apps without admin power). Then you lockdown access to internet to any app that does not need it. Also does wonders to in-app ads and to your mobile Internet bandwith.

jimbo45 · 14 Jul 2013

Hi there
If I'm out in a Bar and using a phone what sort of Firewall should I be using -- what on earth is a Firewall on a public 4G system anyway -- the dangerous stuff is APPS passing out private data to person(s) / site(s) unknown. Any of these fairly poorly written apps are easily hackable -- Google has almost ZERO QC on the play store. Apple (if I'm allowed to say something good about Apple on these Forums) at least keeps a reasonable control over what gets loaded to an iPhone.

At home if your phone is going through your own Wifi system then you can keep a modicum of control but out in public you are 100% dependent on the service providers unless you have something on your phone - and with the OS in read only mode it's not really possible to install an AV into the kernel (without routing and modifying the OS).

However ANY application program can be fiddled to do extra stuff that wasn't what the downloaders were buying into.

Cheers
jimbo

bobafetthotmail · 14 Jul 2013

A firewall is just something that denies access to whatever according to its settings. How you connect to the internet is irrelevant. Windows Firewall anyone?

Good Android firewalls deny access to the internet to specific apps, using linux inbuilt firewall system. This prevents them from telling anyone whatever they may have gathered. To do so it needs root access (for obvious reasons).
This is the app I use and would recommend (as it has two settings per app, Wifi and 3G/mobile internet). Just try to lockdown the Google market app with it. It will no more connect to the store until you unblock it from the firewall.
There are firewalls that work even without root access, like this, but I rooted the device I own for the sake of it anyway.

However ANY application program can be fiddled to do extra stuff that wasn't what the downloaders were buying into.

Lying to customers into using scamware is the only thing that works on an unrooted phone, but if you get a firewall and lock it down, the app won't be able to relay data outside the device.

with the OS in read only mode it's not really possible to install an AV into the kernel

But with system in read-only and apps locked in their own VMs there is no need for an AV.
The only thing left is scams, and AV software cannot detect scams, as they work by tricking the user, not doing shady things like malware.