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Windows 7: More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

21 Jul 2013   #1541
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
Steve Ballmer is a wonderful person. Just keep him with phones and tablets and the hell away from PC's and Laptops.
I don't believe that would be good.... I like my Windows phone, keep him away from the phones too... Maybe Microsoft would be better off without him...

and when he goes, he can take W8 with him.
Nothing wrong with Win 8...for phones, tablets, and netbooks with touchscreens. The big mistake was trying to use it as a laptop (the larger ones, at least) and desktop OS.

What I would love to see is development continue on Win 8, concentrating on phones and tablets, and an SP2 come out for Win 7 (even if it's only a compilation of previous updates). Win 9 could be geared for desktops, Win 10 for phones and tablets, Win 11, desktops, and so on.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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21 Jul 2013   #1542
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Nothing wrong with Win 8...for phones, tablets, and netbooks with touchscreens. The big mistake was trying to use it as a laptop (the larger ones, at least) and desktop OS.

What I would love to see is development continue on Win 8, concentrating on phones and tablets, and an SP2 come out for Win 7 (even if it's only a compilation of previous updates). Win 9 could be geared for desktops, Win 10 for phones and tablets, Win 11, desktops, and so on.
Wish MS would take your advice.

As for Win 8 and suggestions that some of us haven't tried it long enough, or may be concluding a bit prematurely that 8 isn't our preference on a Desktop or Laptop, I understand that pov but it didn't take a lot of time for me to get familiar with the basic functionality of 8 in a local PC store with comparisons to 7.

7 fits my needs by a substantial margin vs 8 but I've yet to join the tablet/smart phone generation so am not in need of a touch-screen platform.

7 is still cruising along on my Desktop & Laptop since around May '10 with no as yet BSOD's or other major issues encountered. The last time I saw one of those "Stack Overflow" screens, was with XP.

The only thing that I see is an intermittent issue with 7 loading to the Desktop, (explorer.exe or iexplore.exe ?). Occasionally my Desktop PC seems to struggle completing launching to the Desktop screen, sometimes not launching the Taskbar, or not completing Desktop Icon associations.

However once it completes the Desktop load, I'm cruising with no issues until the next Restart or startup after Shutdown but it's intermittent and seems to have a 50-50 chance of loading to the Desktop perfectly vs having issues.

The only thing that I can think of that may be a factor in this issue, is that I clone frequently but the Target HDD always boots up without issue. Occasionally the Source HDD will struggle but runs perfectly once it completes the Desktop screen launch, after any Restart or Startup after a Shutdown.

I rarely shut down (power off) the Desktop PC. I just put into Standby (Sleep) mode when I walk away from the PC.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jul 2013   #1543
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
...I rarely shut down (power off) the Desktop PC. I just put into Standby (Sleep) mode when I walk away from the PC.
I never put desktop PC to sleep; it takes as long to wake up as I do and I'm impatient. I just kill the monitor (poor monitor). I also have some processes that run at night (mostly uploads to Carbonite if I've added a lot of data and updates). I have put my notebook to sleep on occasion (I have it set to do that when I close the lid) but usually just power it down (I have the power button set for that).
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21 Jul 2013   #1544
gregrocker

 

Scoop, I'd go over your install closely with Troubleshooting Steps for Windows 7 making sure to keep a Clean Boot, checking for infection, logs, System Resources, etc.

If you'll post back a screenshot of Disk Management - Post a Screen Capture Image we can also look it over for anything obvious.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jul 2013   #1545
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
This is what happened to the MS tablet which was intended to show the way for Windows 8:

Quote:
In some unknown warehouse presumably sits a pile of millions of beautiful, unused Surface RTs, the tablet computer that was supposed to resurrect Microsoft. Late Thursday, the company revealed for the first time that it has failed to entice many people to buy the product, and the software maker made an unexpected, $900 million writeoff on its unsold Surface inventory. The losses don't end there: On Friday morning, Microsoft shed $30 billion in value after its stock tumbled 10 percent.

According to one calculation, that loss translates to nearly 6 million sleek and rather stunning machines that consumers have decided they don't care to own. No matter how the math works out -- the company would not provide exact sales numbers -- that heap of Surfaces just burned a nearly $1 billion hole in Microsoft's pocket.

The irony of the Surface debacle is that Microsoft actually managed to design a product that many reviewers admired, but it failed anyway -- underscoring the degree to which this once-dominant technology company appears to be past its moment. Good, bad or mediocre, the Surface was apparently doomed on arrival because that arrival was way too late, with the market already claimed by Apple’s wildly popular iPad.

How did such a powerful company manage to engineer such a colossal loser?
Microsoft's Surface RT Didn't Have To Be A $900 Million Disaster
And now those will simply sit there in some big warehouse and collect dust! MS decided to get into the tablet game a bit too late and "with the wrong approach" not looking before leaping! This will cost the hard way.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
I don't believe that would be good.... I like my Windows phone, keep him away from the phones too... Maybe Microsoft would be better off without him...

and when he goes, he can take W8 with him.
Nothing wrong with Win 8...for phones, tablets, and netbooks with touchscreens. The big mistake was trying to use it as a laptop (the larger ones, at least) and desktop OS.

What I would love to see is development continue on Win 8, concentrating on phones and tablets, and an SP2 come out for Win 7 (even if it's only a compilation of previous updates). Win 9 could be geared for desktops, Win 10 for phones and tablets, Win 11, desktops, and so on.
A truly innovative company would have worked on RT and Surface totally separate from their main cash cow desktop OS to begin with. But someone at MS was asleep at the switch again not taking a serious look at what 7 was doing for computing in general with a guaranteed win to expand on further after Vista was labeled ME II.

Continued work with the MinWin still seen while still seen in as well as other working ideas 7 brought in elightened on further would put MS over the top as far as desktop OSs."Oh no we can't have that now! We bash the Fruit company and others like Google getting into the OS business by focusing our efforts there." is now proving itself to many as hindsight.

According to the info on the old 90s action being taken against MS with BG trying to jam IE on everyone as a mandate that lead to him leaving and instead someone comes in lacking ideas in too many ways. BG was still an innovator despite his drive to monopolize the browser war that was seen then. Presently MS is now seemingly lacking the things BG started off with by ignoring the success story 7 became in a moment's notice!

EVERYONE wanted to get their hands on 7 when first new! People had enthusiasm for an OS they realized was a new positive for MS which unfortunately wasn't followed up. I have to wonder if BG was still CEO if he would simply trashed 8 or expand operations to see a totally separate development team work out things for tablet and phone and not effect the actual desktop OS? A totally separate tablet OS(RT is supposedly) wouldn't necessarily need to look exactly the same as the "Windows" desktop users have on their machines! But I guess having a separate branch for tablet and phone would have meant hiring more people as MS expanded a little to fill the needs?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jul 2013   #1546
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I never put desktop PC to sleep; it takes as long to wake up as I do and I'm impatient. I just kill the monitor (poor monitor). I also have some processes that run at night (mostly uploads to Carbonite if I've added a lot of data and updates). I have put my notebook to sleep on occasion (I have it set to do that when I close the lid) but usually just power it down (I have the power button set for that).
I became a "sleep" guy for a specific reason although I have a workaround in the event that I encounter wakeup issues. So far, I haven't seen any problems waking the Desktop. It usually wakes up within ~8-10 seconds, with the Win login screen appearing after that.

I close all apps before putting the PC to sleep though, and that may contribute to the faster "wakeup" action on my Desktop. I usually call the Standby dll with a <win> s hotkey, similar to locking the PC with <win> L, etc, or I go to "Desktop Active" and use the built-in Windows shutdown menu (alt F4 remapped to <win> x on my PC).

The other reason that I do a manual "Sleep" command, is that with my PC's (both Desktop and Laptop), I found that they will not always go into Sleep mode after my specified timeout setting in Control Panel/Power Optons.

After reading some things about this, the best explanation that intermittently prevents my PC's from going to Sleep in timeout mode, is possibly related to "powercfg", receiving a power request, either from my Homegroup network or possibly an outside 'net request.

I looked at Powercfg at the CMD prompt and found a request that appeared to originate from an external USB device. I have a USB hub in my gear, so rather than digging further into the issue, I just went with the habit of putting my PC's to Sleep with my hotkey before I leave my workstation.

I also have a KVM switch and an HDMI switcher in my gear, since I'm hopelessly hooked on an old Dell "Quietkey' Win 104 keyBd and Kensington Trackball so I rarely use my Laptop keyBd. These devices may be contributing to the Power Request that can prevent the PC from going into Sleep mode via the Control Panel timeout value.

I also have a couple of scans that run overnight, my AV and an MBAM (MalwareBytes) scan. I use the Windows Task Scheduler to wake the PC about 1 minute before my MBAM scan begins. Then the AV (Norton) scan runs and Norton has a pull-down option to put the PC back to sleep after that scan completes.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Scoop, I'd go over your install closely with Troubleshooting Steps for Windows 7 making sure to keep a Clean Boot, checking for infection, logs, System Resources, etc.

If you'll post back a screenshot of Disk Management - Post a Screen Capture Image we can also look it over for anything obvious.
Greg, thanks for the info. I haven't checked into the Troubleshooting Steps yet but included is my Disk Mgmt screencap at the end of the post.

I also included a recent Defrag data screencap from my Norton AV.

Drive C is my everyday HDD, 1 Tb Seagate Barracuda. HDD product info:

3.5” INTERNAL 1Tb 16 MB SATA ST1000DM003-9YN162
7200RPM, 64MB, SATA III 6Gb/s

My shelf clone HDD's (2) are identical product-line 1 Tb HDD's.

Drive E is another Seagate 500Gb HDD, same product line. It's mainly an additional-storage HDD for video files.

Both HDD's are installed in the tower with Kingwin hot-swap racks.

Drive I is a Seagate "Goflex" portable USB (2.0) HDD. I use this HDD for twice-daily incremental backups for specific items with Acronis 2011.

Fyi note about my Desktop system: I had this system built at a local store. Dallas-area residents may be familiar with the store... "Micro Center". They are a reputable dealer with good support/associates in the store.

I originally had Raid 1 installed with 2 HDD's but I had intermittent issues with the array halting, which turned out to be an intermittent RAM stick which I replaced, but I disabled my Raid 1 in my BIOS after doing some research into Raid operation.

I'm not an experienced PC guy, so I'm not certain that I disabled the original Raid 1 config properly and perhaps that's contributing to the struggling Windows startup issues. That's just a novice's guess here though. I'm wondering if Windows is searching for a Raid array at startup and is getting a little confused when it's not detecting the working array.

I mention this since I see a couple Raid drivers that are included in my Windows Startup actions with my "Process Explorer" (Sysinternals utility). I also see Raid 1 Intel Event Monitor checked in the Msconfig "Startup" tab. I haven't unchecked it yet since I didn't want to render my HDD unbootable, if that's a possibility.

Since my primary reason for initially going with a Raid 1 install was not to protect against a HDD failure but to have a plug-and-play complete HDD in the event of intrusions (virus, malware), my reason was flawed due to my inexperience regarding Raid 1. Since they mirror, any hit will affect both HDD's.

So I became a "cloner". It's worked out good but I'm slowly catching up with the Imaging ideas for having another option for backing up my complete C drive.

Thanks to all here for the Imaging info. As a "baby" PC user compared to other members here, it'll take time to absorb that info and begin an Imaging/backup routine.


Attached Thumbnails
More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8-disk-mgmt.png   More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8-norton-degrag.png  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jul 2013   #1547
gregrocker

 

I'll have more time later but for now the things that jump out are there should be no Active flag on DISK1, and I would run for awhile without Norton after using Norton Removal Tool - try MS Security Essentials.

Try also plugging in directly to mobo without rack.

Establish a Clean Boot now with only MSE starting w Win7. Check in BIOS setup that AHCI mode is chosen. Did you wipe the HD's before install and install with other unplugged?

I am at the Cambridge MicroCenter now.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jul 2013   #1548
Dallas 7

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
I don't believe that would be good.... I like my Windows phone, keep him away from the phones too... Maybe Microsoft would be better off without him...

and when he goes, he can take W8 with him.
Nothing wrong with Win 8...for phones, tablets, and netbooks with touchscreens. The big mistake was trying to use it as a laptop (the larger ones, at least) and desktop OS.

What I would love to see is development continue on Win 8, concentrating on phones and tablets, and an SP2 come out for Win 7 (even if it's only a compilation of previous updates). Win 9 could be geared for desktops, Win 10 for phones and tablets, Win 11, desktops, and so on.

I certainly agree with that. MS's "One size fits all" brainstorm was the deal killer for me. It's fine for tablet's/phones because that's what it was designed for, but it'll never reside on my desktop.

I don't have much hope for W9 unless MS changes their direction. They seem to be sold on their tablet style "One size fit's all" philosophy and shoving it down the public's throat.
If the public continues to shove it right back at 'em, maybe M$ will come to their senses.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jul 2013   #1549
Scoop

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
I'll have more time later but for now the things that jump out are there should be no Active flag on DISK1, and I would run for awhile without Norton after using Norton Removal Tool - try MS Security Essentials.

Try also plugging in directly to mobo without rack.

Establish a Clean Boot now with only MSE starting w Win7. Check in BIOS setup that AHCI mode is chosen. Did you wipe the HD's before install and install with other unplugged?

I am at the Cambridge MicroCenter now.

Greg,

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that Micro Center is a nation-wide chain. Cool. I've always found that store to be the best place to shop in the Dallas area.

I'll need help with a lot of this stuff.

- I don't know how to make the "E" drive inactive. I clicked on the drive's Properties in Disk Mgmt but I don't see an option for disabling the "active" flag. If I need to format E Drive to clear the 'active' flag, it's not a problem since I have the E-Drive data backed up elsewhere.

- I'll look into uninstalling Norton. It'll take me a little time to get that part done as I'm short on time at present.

fyi on my timeline regarding Norton: I was running ESET (installed at Micro Center at the time of the initial 7 OS install on the new PC) until 12/07/12, when I removed ESET and installed Norton. After installing Norton, I've had several restarts/reboots that booted up ok, no Windows startup issues. However since the Startup issue is intermittent, I guess Norton's not eliminated as a possible source of the issue.

- Mobo, I had to google that one , learned that one today. I'll give that a try. Do you think the Kingwin racks are an issue with the Windows startup issues that I'm seeing? The reason I'm curious is that I installed the racks on 10/13/11 and after looking at my Excel file, (my event tracking info) I don't seem to see a tie-in to the startup issues and the Kingwin Rack installs.

- I'll need help with the "clean boot" part of your list. I'm not sure how to go about that part.

- If I recall, my BIOS isn't set to AHCI. I looked at that a couple of years ago when I was reading about Sata hot-swap enablement. I believe my BIOS is set to IDE. I will verify that before I post here tomorrow. After reading about it, I haven't changed the BIOS to AHCI, since, according to what I've been able to google, I'd have to do a clean OS install since Windows won't boot if the BIOS has been changed to AHCI after the initial OS install. Is that urban legend or accurate info? I've read that, if the BIOS is changed to AHCI, the BSOD will appear when booting up afterward.

- I'm not sure about the question regarding wiping the drives prior to install but here's what I do when I clone:

I shut down the PC, then install both Source & Target HDD's. I then boot up on my "Gparted" CD to format the Target HDD. I do that since, as far as I can tell, the Acronis bootable CD doesn't have a standalone 'format' option prior to starting the cloning operation.

I format the Target HDD before cloning, mainly to more easily differentiate between the Source & Target HDD's in Acronis, or Clonezilla, to prevent a "face-palm" moment (accidentally cloning in reverse).

After receiving advice at the Acronis forum, I always clone from outside of Windows, with the Acronis CD (or Clonezilla with a CD).

I boot up on the Acronis CD, clone, and then shut down the PC.

I then boot up on the newly-cloned Target HDD, to verify its operation, ie, launch a few programs, IE, etc.

I shut down the PC, removing the Target HDD and putting it away as my emergency backup HDD.

I boot up on the Source HDD.

I always clone with the Target HDD in my 1st Kingwin slot, the one where I'm running the Source HDD daily.

I was initially cloning within Windows and would encounter what I believe is a Windows "don't do", allowing Windows to see 2 identical cloned HDD's. However, since November of last year, I always clone outside of Windows with a bootable media, Arconis, Clonezilla.

I formatted E Drive prior to installing it a couple of weeks ago.

I'm able to install the E Drive hot but Windows doesn't see it until I either restart or wake up the PC from Sleep mode. Once the PC wakes and I log into Windows, it sees the E Drive. I assume the reason that Windows doesn't recognize a hot-installed HDD is that my BIOS isn't set to AHCI mode.

I've only recently added E Drive to my tower so I'm guessing that it's not related to my intermittent Windows startup symptoms.

As an fyi note about my typical HDD user modes, I rarely install or remove my HDD's hot since I don't usually have a need for that on my PC. I installed the Kingwin racks primarily for ease of periodic cloning, to prevent the need to remove my tower covers to install/remove my HDD's.

I never hot-remove or hot-install my Source/OS HDD.

I can provide a timeline with symptoms/actions, etc, since I keep that info on an Excel file to help me see trends and frequencies of issues.

The weird part of this Startup issue is that it's only an intermittent problem at that time. Once past the Desktop build/launch, 7 sails along like a champ surfer

That's why I've not looked into it a lot as yet since I'm not a frequent "restart/bootup" PC guy.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jul 2013   #1550
PaulGo

Windows 10 (64 bit)
 
 

Quote:
Microsoft financial results take a beating

But what Ballmer didn’t really address is something much more important in the long run, and that’s finding out what customers actually want in terms of products from Microsoft and how they want those products delivered. It’s here that big technology companies are finding that opportunities are rife for missteps. How else can you explain the debacle that was Windows 8?

Microsoft was well aware that customers like Windows and Windows-like operating systems. Other people know this: many of the user interfaces for Linux look like they came straight from Redmond, for example.

Windows 8 probably tested very well with people using mobile devices where it makes sense.

But how could Microsoft’s product managers release a touch-based operating system interface on a customer base that is equipped in large part with a keyboard and mouse hardware? Clearly Microsoft was trying to drive innovation by encouraging a touch interface.

Few people in the real world are going to drop a thousand or so dollars just so they can
use a new OS.

That’s especially true in the business world where hardware replacement budgets have suffered greatly at the hands of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
Microsoft financial results take a beating | TG Daily
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