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Windows 7: More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

27 Feb 2013   #181
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

@ Lady Fitzgerald

Great post, and one I agree with; except this....

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I'll be long dead before tablets can store and quickly access terabytes of data, even when no internet is available.
Don't sell yourself short, I'm thinking we'll be there before that. The technology is moving too fast

Anyway great post


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27 Feb 2013   #182
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
@ Lady Fitzgerald

Great post, and one I agree with; except this....

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I'll be long dead before tablets can store and quickly access terabytes of data, even when no internet is available.
Don't sell yourself short, I'm thinking we'll be there before that. The technology is moving too fast

Anyway great post
Thanks! Apparently, you don't know that I'm pushing 64.
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27 Feb 2013   #183
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

LF, I wish I was your age. Things would be a lot easier. 12 years make a big difference.
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27 Feb 2013   #184
SIW2

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Vista x64 / 7 X64
 
 

@Jimbo,

The stock prices do not reflect what you imply.

If times are uncertain , companies that have guaranteed income - irrespective of current or near future sales, look attractive.

MS has that from it's existing tie ins. The price does not reflect any expectation that win8 or anything else MS is doing now will be a winner.

Apple does not have that level of lock ins which will continue to pay for years to come.

They rely mostly on sales. Uncle Tim needs to come up with another winner and the price will then reflect that.

It does not mean MS is doing better than Apple.
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27 Feb 2013   #185
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
@ Lady Fitzgerald

Great post, and one I agree with; except this....

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
I'll be long dead before tablets can store and quickly access terabytes of data, even when no internet is available.
Don't sell yourself short, I'm thinking we'll be there before that. The technology is moving too fast

Anyway great post
Thanks! Apparently, you don't know that I'm pushing 64.
Well, I'm thinking in about ten years we'll be saying how we can't believe we have this and that. Who would have imagined the processing power and storage device we have today from just 2000

Anyway moving right along...

Both sides have merit, and honestly companies should be using both mobile and desktop devices. In fact, I can't see how any company in business today wouldn't be using tablets and other mobile devices. Heck even the military uses both.

The point is, the decision Microsoft took with the OS in forcing the tablet/mobile side on desktop users. The sign in for this and that, the tile look, and the missing start menu (no matter how trivial), is just a bit much. Then there's the "we won't be moving DX11.1 to Windows 7 so move to 8 if you want it" has people and developers saying go FYS. In short, it's the entire attitude Microsoft has taken with this "forced" approach.

And if the answer is no one is forcing you to use the OS, you're right.... and Microsoft is seeing this in slumped stale sales. We don't want it, and we ain't using it... no matter how many bells and whistles you try to keep from us.

Will that change on both sides... maybe, we'll see.
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27 Feb 2013   #186
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
LF, I wish I was your age. Things would be a lot easier. 12 years make a big difference.
I wouldn't mind being 12 years younger and still know what I know now.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Feb 2013   #187
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
Agreed

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
I can only recommend to start looking at Linux distros. Ubuntu Unity is a dog, but Mint Mate and Zorin are very good options for people that are used to Windows. Build up Linux skills now - it may come in handy soon.
I agree with your assessment of Unity and Linux Mint MATE (I haven't tried Zorin).

Linux is as easy to use as Windows, if all you do on your PC is surf the internet, use GIMP to edit pictures or type a document (click on a program icon).

About half the programs I have installed in Windows were originally written for Linux operating systems.
Apart from Office 2007, most of the Windows only programs I have installed are for backup or security purposes.
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27 Feb 2013   #188
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

The Linux program library (in Mint) contains over 60.000 programs. There is something for everybody. I have done video editing, Impress (like PowerPoint) presentations, etc. These programs are just as good as the Windows equivalents. You just have to get used to them.

Even the system oriented programs are similar. E.g. Bleachbit is very similar to CCleaner. Installing and uninstalling programs is even easier than in Windows. So there is very little to complain about - if anything, it is the complex Terminal (command prompt). That takes some time to fathom.

I run my Linux distros in virtual. So backup is simple - I just copy the VMware folder to a backup disk. Right now my host system is still Windows 7. But a Linux host is also supported by VMware Player.
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27 Feb 2013   #189
FerchogtX

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit Build 7600 / Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP3
 
 

Well... let's save some time

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there
Businesses operate differently to private consumers - I'll bet these days in the few cases where old fashioned desktops are still used the hardware is LIGHT YEARS behind what people have at home.
I guess lot of people is aware of this, unfortunately, the great part of the market is fullfiled with unexperienced users that do minimal stuff on PC... "Light Years" by the other hand sounds a bit exaggerated, here I know poeple with more than 8 GB (the least) of RAM and Phenoms with 6 or more cores (if not Core i7 from Intel...), but average user has a standard 2 GB PC with a dual cored CPU... in most cases that is not too far from what bussines could have... A tablet can NEVER (at least by now) enter this contest, if you are talking about hardware power, just because they are relatevely new and their hardware need to be worked out more to support what a desktop does.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
-- Upgrades etc are planned a long time in advance -- they just don't go out --buy a new OS and if it's no good just downgrade again.

W7 upgrades were in place long before W8 was "even thought of" -- and no business is going to go through TWO OS upgrades in a short time - so I don't think the XP===>W7 vs XP===>W8 was a valid point.
True, that's the reason why they refuse to install W8, not only of the short period between 7 and 8, but also about productivity, they need to think about new features tthat need to be learned, if the change is too radical, they need more time to teach users. W7 Incorporated inpressive tools and enhacements for the interface, when Vista came out, Aero was only an eye candy (very pretty but useless and resouce hog), when Windows 7 came, then Aero was tweaked, was faster, reliabe and incorporated neat features that enhaced productivity (Aero Snap, Aero Shake, Aero Peek, Live Clickable Previews...)
Windows 8 goes backwards, you can stay on desktop as long as you want, but needing to add a toolbar to get back Start Menu is silly, even worse, Start Menu in W7 has a search bar so you can even find control panel items without EVEN oing into it. W8 instead forces you to look for the start screen everytime, loosing time, adding more clicks and just being tile showoff instead of organizationaly better... Start menu sorts programs, yes, you need one more click in case of subfolders/subcategories, but is organized, Start Screen is just a mess, even with grouping tiles... Search bar is no longer there unless you click for it... there is more, but is just...

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I still maintain that for a lot of people a tablet makes a better option IN THE NEW WORKPLACE - provided the tablet is a DECENT ONE, you have an external decent size monitor and you can connect it to a docking station --with a keyboard and / or mouse as well.
This defeats the entire purpose of buying one of those things... Laptops and netbooks don't need docking stations, and is not about hardware architecture, if it was so easy to use a single tiny screen with serius stuff like offimatic programs or digital painting, those devices would become useless...

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Nobody says --least of all me -- that touch for some applications can replace a keyboard -- even with a "Stylus" people can type on a keyboard much faster than they can write and certainly enter via touch.

I don't think people understood what I'm saying here --- IMO a lot of the so called "Traditional" office apps don't really need a "Classical computer" any more -- and with more companies adopting a "BYOD" policy all the company will have to do is provide an infrastructure that a myriad of appropriate devices can connect to.

If 90% of your computer tasks at work are in using word, powerpoint, excel spread sheets, email, or working in such areas as HR, A/P, A/R, Purchasing, Procurement, Customer service etc all these tasks can be accomplished really easily with pretty well ANY front end device attached to a monitor keyboard and mouse.
But is not... you forget people that use specialized input devices (like a digital painting tablet or finger scanners...) The screen simply does not replace them, and having a touch screen along with this is just silly, its cheaper and reasonable that you get a Laptop or PC for this...

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
A corporate server will provide a decent RDP experience -- and a lot of "Production applications" are essentially "Logon to say an ERP system and choose the application". For example if you are running a SAP system then so long as you can connect to the SAPGUI it doesn't really matter what the front end OS is -- whether it's via an HTTP Portal, Linux or any flavour of Windows.

Developers etc have different needs as well as those administering servers and that type of work -- but I say it again --the basic "Stand alone" Workstation is essentially dead or certainly dying --even in the workplace.
True again, but this doesn't mean that tablets will ever replace this kind of harware... probably I'm just too old fashioned, but standalone servers are still and will be still needed, just because of backups and critical info storage... even the cloud needs this concept... hell... even the Matrix does... XD

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I can probably say that in the last 3 years even I haven't actually SEEN anything other than Laptops in the large companies I've worked at -- and more recently plenty of Ipads / Samsung tablets as well -- and these type of devices are just brilliant when making presentations or or demos -- much easier than disconnecting a laptop, finding a LAN, connecting up again to the server, loading up Office from the network --then Bang the network goes down etc etc.
Laptops are portable in a reasonable way, also, allow users to take work at home.
I've also seen a growing usage of tablets for presentations, but never seen someone doing one on it...
And trying not to sound harsh, laptops don't need a LAN, all of them are equiped with a Wi-Fi Antenna device, you don't need cables to connect to the network...

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I know the desktop won't disappear 100% -- but even today I'll bet it's around 80% GONE in workplaces and in fact the whole BYOD concept makes the whole procurement and installation of corporate OS'es much more simple -- so long as the server(s) provide the relevant GUI the I.T staff just have to fix the server(s) -- they don't have to deploy 2500 copies of Windows etc any more.
Then, Windows is useless here, even worse, Windows 8 is... they got their own corporative enviornment and this kind of companies hardly will ever make it into buying a copy of any version of Windows, unless they need it to run they layer software, which returns again to no Windows 8 here...

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Small offices may even find it easier as there's usually no "established I.T dept --usually a GURU who messes around with a small server -- so providing a single GUI on the server should be a doddle also.
Even corporates need at least one server to get backups at least... it's not that easy to have data floating around without taking some precautions...

Final Note:
Not that I'm trying to defend the "W8 is s***" plot or something, but here are facts that really pissed off the community about this OS:
  1. Unnessesary change of the GUI for traditional computing. Traditional PC DOESN'T need tiles floating around, hidden options and improductive ways of working, instead you need a clear desktop experience, with all you need at hand and clearly easy to find.
  2. Forcing users to the new GUI, knowing is just a mere stetical change (for the worse) raher than a true improvement. And by this, I mean not having the option to choose from Traditional desktop experience, or the new Modern UI, Intermediates and advanced users could be pleased because all options are available just like it was on past. Newbies or not experiences got the option to use a simpler UI wich will let them to do ligh stuff (check emails, facebook, chatting...)
  3. Trying to fool experienced users with a marketing argument (Modern, new, changes...) and even taking Windows 95 into account, when is clearly not the same case. Windows 95 was a vast improvement, not just because the enhacement of 16 bit computing and start of 32 bit, but also Start Menu and task bar, programs organized and easily accesed by just one click ahead...
Personally, I liked Windows 8, Start Screen looks nice (until you install all you need and you discover is a whole sea of tiles) and Modern UI looks new enough... but trying to do serius bussiness on it is like assisting suicide...

Most people has the same issue, that's all, there is more than just complaining about an appereance, this is about workload and efficiency at it...

So, in short, Tablets and Smartphones = Windows 8, PC's = Windows 7, make your choice, be happy. MS forcing users to Windows 8 because is clearly not an improvement = Fail for them...

Just my two cents, and with all my respect and politeness, I don't mean to effend anybody.

See ya!!
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27 Feb 2013   #190
Dallas 7

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post

Hi there
As Windows 7 is still current then why not just keep it -- by reading the various Forums however it does seem that some people want W8 to be a "Clone" of W7" - which wasn't what the wretched thing was designed for........


Cheers
jimbo


"As Windows 7 is still current then why not just keep it"

I intend to. I have a brand new build with W7 for that very purpose.


"it does seem that some people want W8 to be a "Clone" of W7"

Wrong again! We weren't expecting a "clone", we were expecting an upgrade, but we didn't get it.
Instead we got a downgrade for desktops!


"which wasn't what the wretched thing was designed for"

You got one right. Yes it's a "wretched thing", and no it was not designed to be a W7 clone, we weren't expecting a clone.
It was designed and optimized for phones and tablets with a touch interface.
NOT FOR DESKTOPS.

All desktop users got out of W8 was a backseat on the bus.
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 More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8




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