More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

Hi there
Some of the gripes here with W8 are really IMO so trivial as not really to merit serious discussion -- especially on a Forum where (I assume) most people usually have a decent knowledge about computers in general and Windows in particular.

For those that really find a lack of start menu in W8 such a big problem -- well even WITHOUT using 3rd party tools you can make a feature that performs almost identically to W7 start menu.

1) on the bottom taskbar right mouse click ==> toolbars===>create new toolbar
2) enter %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs in the select folder
3) press the select folder button

Now in the bottom taskbar you'll see Programs with a >> sign

click on the >> and you'll see a list of your pgms in classical menu style -- what's difficult about that --you don't even have to go near the start screen / charms etc once you've booted.

Screenshots enc.

(you can make say 2 or 3 individual customized toolbars like that if you want --and I actually find it FAR MORE FLEXIBLE than the basic traditional start menu).

Again I say W8 has its faults but some of them are not nearly so bad as people seem to make out -- most people who HATE W8 seem to have tried it for about 3 seconds and then given up saying "I hate it". Try out some of the decent bits of it before rubbishing it entirely.

Cheers
jimbo

^ I actually have one of those filled with my often-used software and other such files and shortcuts. The start menu for me functions as a go-to "has everything everytime" menu where mostly anything I have on the computer, software-wise, will be present.

jimbo45 said:

Hi there
Some of the gripes here with W8 are really IMO so trivial as not really to merit serious discussion -- especially on a Forum where (I assume) most people usually have a decent knowledge about computers in general and Windows in particular.

For those that really find a lack of start menu in W8 such a big problem -- well even WITHOUT using 3rd party tools you can make a feature that performs almost identically to W7 start menu.......


Cheers
jimbo

Surely you must work for Microsoft the way you keep trying to sell that touch screen interface to desktop users.
WHY should anybody have to "Make a feature" to make it more like W7???
Would you buy a Ford so you could make it more like a Chevrolet?

W7 didn't need salesmen to tell us how to make it more like Vista, it was good enough to sell itself!
There's NO REASON for people to have to buy W8 if they don't like.
If you think we're being "trivial" for disagreeing with you, that's your problem.

Make a product people like and it'll sell. Otherwise you'll have to eat it. That's capitalism, and it works.

Dallas 7 said:

jimbo45 said:

Hi there
Some of the gripes here with W8 are really IMO so trivial as not really to merit serious discussion -- especially on a Forum where (I assume) most people usually have a decent knowledge about computers in general and Windows in particular.

For those that really find a lack of start menu in W8 such a big problem -- well even WITHOUT using 3rd party tools you can make a feature that performs almost identically to W7 start menu.......


Cheers
jimbo

Surely you must work for Microsoft the way you keep trying to sell that touch screen interface to desktop users.
WHY should anybody have to "Make a feature" to make it more like W7???
Would you buy a Ford so you could make it more like a Chevrolet?

W7 didn't need salesmen to tell us how to make it more like Vista, it was good enough to sell itself!
There's NO REASON for people to have to buy W8 if they don't like.
If you think we're being "trivial" for disagreeing with you, that's your problem.

Make a product people like and it'll sell. Otherwise you'll have to eat it. That's capitalism, and it works.

Hi there
As Windows 7 is still current then why not just keep it -- by reading the various Forums however it does seem that some people want W8 to be a "Clone" of W7" - which wasn't what the wretched thing was designed for.

By making it "Look like W7" in a way is almost tantamount to saying -- I'll buy a Ferrari but I want it to "look and feel" just like a Chevy or a pick up.

For some purposes there are loads of short cuts that make desktop work similar to W7 but people should remember that W8 was designed for NEWER devices - particularly mobile applications with Touch while remaining reasonably compatible with previous desktop applications. - Not perfect I agree but it's only the first iteration and the idea of having a unified interface across all sorts of devices isn't actually a bad idea.

The whole Desktop idea of working is actually diminishing quite rapidly-- there are of course exceptions but for great swathes of "bog standard office workers" a lot of their daily work could probably be accomplished quite easily on a DECENT (and I stress the word DECENT) tablet with a large monitor attached to it.

In a few years Desktop type of working will largely be "Niche", hobbyists, or extreme gamers.
Whether Windows 8 or something else will drive the next generation of hardware we'll have to wait and see.

So far actually given the general economic situation and the fact that W8 can run on quite old hardware so people aren't rushing around in droves buying new kit W8 sales have not been particularly disappointing - and for things like the new Windows 8 Phones (Nokia Lumia series) they are FLYING off the shelves in Europe -- very popular indeed.

Finally the point about "Trivial" was to say that for a small amount of work you really can make W8 to look and behave almost exactly how you want it to - but it is NOT W7.

People are free to install it or not as they wish -- there are still loads of XP, VISTA, W2000 and even some W98 systems still running out there and good luck to those who for one reason or another continue to want to run these systems -- however remember also that when W7 was introduced there were all sorts of people complaining "It wasn't XP" and there were all sorts of posts and suggestions on how to make W7 "look and feel like XP".

MSFT (Ms) stock is also doing FAR better than "The Fruit Company's" which has dropped significantly. Considering "The Fiscal cliff", and various Eurozone and Chinese shenanigans with "Debt" and economic slow downs generally the outlook for Ms is surprisingly good.

Enc recent stock charts of AAPL ("The Fruit Company") and MSFT.

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

Hi there
Some of the gripes here with W8 are really IMO so trivial as not really to merit serious discussion -- especially on a Forum where (I assume) most people usually have a decent knowledge about computers in general and Windows in particular.

What may be "trivial" to you may be serious to others. What may be serious to you may trivial to others.

Just something to think about.

The idea of UI that will work on all devices is as practical as one size fits all clothing (one of the worst myths ever concocted). A Ferrari is not able to do the work a pickup can do and neither can a tablet do the work of a desktop machine.

While it is true that tablets are increasing in poularity, that does not mean desktops are going away anytime soon. A real keyboard is far more productive than what tablets have been offering (adding a keyboard to a tablet just makes it an overpriced netbook). Try serious multitasking on a tablet; the screen size alone makes that impractical (connecting a tablet to a monitor negates the portability advantage of a tablet). I'll be long dead before tablets can store and quickly access terabytes of data, even when no internet is available. Try doing some serious photo editing on a tablet; touch screens just won't cut it. Don't even think of doing video editing on a tablet. Tablets are very useful for many people but they just can't do everything a desktop can and, what they can do, they can't do as well except for limited data display. The business market alone will keep desktops alive.

Touch screens are ideal for tablets and, to a lesser degree, smaller laptops. As screen size increases, they become less practical. I can move a mouse a couple of inches to traverse the width of a large monitor. Doing so with a touch screen would be tiring and, eventually, painful. I can just see the workers' comp. claims pouring in. Win8 was designed for touchscreens. Any other input became cumbersome. Sure one can tweak Win8 to restore some of the features lost from Win7 (but not all) but why bother? Just continue to use Win7.

The reason tablets have become so popular is the people flocking to them were using only a tiny fraction of what desktops are capable of doing: emails (most people have gone to text messaging on cell phone for that anyway), simple web surfing, etc. For them, tablets are better because because they are smaller and almost infinitely more portable. Even desktop users will find them useful as portable, remote terminals (although they would never replace the desktop itself). For those applications, Win 8 is ideal. But expecting win 8 to be as useful on a desktop is like expecting the tiny shifter of a Ferrari to shift the gears on a Road Ranger transmission, a five speed main with a four speed Brownie, or a main with a three speed axle. In no way will the Ferrari be replacing an 18 wheeler, either, so those shifting controls will be necessary for quite some time to come. Same for a UI on a desktop; a tablet UI just isn't going to cut it on a desktop used for serious productivity, not just playing around like the song and dance commercials have been showing.

I never expected Win 8 to look like Win 7. I expected it to be able to do the same as Win 7 better and do more. Instead, more features were taken away than were gained. Finding occasionally used programs was considerable faster using a start menu instead of the clunky tiles Win8 uses. Heck, I don't even like program icons but, at least, Win 7 give me options to use instead without needing add on programs.

If Win8 is so great and the complaints against it so trivial, why are the vast majority of businesses replacing their aging XP systems with Win 7 instead of Win 8? You may be tired of people complaining about Win8 but I'm tired of people putting down people with valid reasons for not liking Win8.

Hi there
Businesses operate differently to private consumers - I'll bet these days in the few cases where old fashioned desktops are still used the hardware is LIGHT YEARS behind what people have at home.

-- Upgrades etc are planned a long time in advance -- they just don't go out --buy a new OS and if it's no good just downgrade again.

W7 upgrades were in place long before W8 was "even thought of" -- and no business is going to go through TWO OS upgrades in a short time - so I don't think the XP===>W7 vs XP===>W8 was a valid point.

I still maintain that for a lot of people a tablet makes a better option IN THE NEW WORKPLACE - provided the tablet is a DECENT ONE, you have an external decent size monitor and you can connect it to a docking station --with a keyboard and / or mouse as well.

Nobody says --least of all me -- that touch for some applications can replace a keyboard -- even with a "Stylus" people can type on a keyboard much faster than they can write and certainly enter via touch.

I don't think people understood what I'm saying here --- IMO a lot of the so called "Traditional" office apps don't really need a "Classical computer" any more -- and with more companies adopting a "BYOD" policy all the company will have to do is provide an infrastructure that a myriad of appropriate devices can connect to.

If 90% of your computer tasks at work are in using word, powerpoint, excel spread sheets, email, or working in such areas as HR, A/P, A/R, Purchasing, Procurement, Customer service etc all these tasks can be accomplished really easily with pretty well ANY front end device attached to a monitor keyboard and mouse.

A corporate server will provide a decent RDP experience -- and a lot of "Production applications" are essentially "Logon to say an ERP system and choose the application". For example if you are running a SAP system then so long as you can connect to the SAPGUI it doesn't really matter what the front end OS is -- whether it's via an HTTP Portal, Linux or any flavour of Windows.

Developers etc have different needs as well as those administering servers and that type of work -- but I say it again --the basic "Stand alone" Workstation is essentially dead or certainly dying --even in the workplace.

I can probably say that in the last 3 years even I haven't actually SEEN anything other than Laptops in the large companies I've worked at -- and more recently plenty of Ipads / Samsung tablets as well -- and these type of devices are just brilliant when making presentations or or demos -- much easier than disconnecting a laptop, finding a LAN, connecting up again to the server, loading up Office from the network --then Bang the network goes down etc etc.

I know the desktop won't disappear 100% -- but even today I'll bet it's around 80% GONE in workplaces and in fact the whole BYOD concept makes the whole procurement and installation of corporate OS'es much more simple -- so long as the server(s) provide the relevant GUI the I.T staff just have to fix the server(s) -- they don't have to deploy 2500 copies of Windows etc any more.

Small offices may even find it easier as there's usually no "established I.T dept --usually a GURU who messes around with a small server -- so providing a single GUI on the server should be a doddle also.

Cheers
jimbo

HammerHead said:

Zzzz.....zzzzzz........zzzzzz

Why bother to use a tablet for a front end device attached to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse when a desktop can do it better for less.

I don't know how big businesses in Iceland work but here in the U.S., tablets are still the exception rather than the rule at most big businesses (including the last two I worked for; the ones I worked for before computers were so common don't count). Many big businesses frown on the use of laptops for security reasons, preferring desktops nobody will be taking home with them. Laptops are subject to getting lost or stolen; imagine how easy it would be for a tablet to grow legs or wings. Desktops are also far less likely to get dropped than laptops and desktops.

I'm not saying that tablets have no place in businesses. As you said, they can be brilliant for demos and presentations most of the time. But, in no way can they completely replace desktops and an OS that is so heavily geared to tablets just isn't going to cut it.