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Windows 7: Start8 and ModernMix -- Windows 8's last, best hope for normality


30 Mar 2013   #71

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by boohbah View Post
im not the 8 fan club, i have 8 and i like it ,i decided to post in this thread as it is becoming tiresome reading the same old crap being spouted on a daily basis.
8 is here. why do people feel the need to harp on and on about it, those who dont like 8 dont use it,simple.
its not that you are being forced to use it, 7 will continue to be supported for some time.
the amusing thing is the loudest bitching about it is coming from people who dont/wont use it ,
before you start rattling your cages with claims that 8 is pre loaded on OEM's so it is forced.
then the alternative is to force a different OS (presuambly 7, and presumably you would approve of that
xp users didnt like that.)
or allow people a range of OS's to choose from which is obviously impractical from a business sense.

Would you use tablets and phones designed for a mouse? No?
Then why would we use a desktop OS designed for a touchscreen?

Touchscreens for a desktop are as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
Of course we don't use it, we don't like it! Why would we use it if we don't like it?

I agree boohbah, It'd be great if MS offered OS choices, but they didn't.
That's the problem, they offer a screen door on a submarine and tell us to take it or leave it. No choices, no options, no preferences. And now Blue is offering even more of the same.

The problem is not just W8, it's that they're systematically throwing the desktop under the bus!

My System SpecsSystem Spec
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30 Mar 2013   #72

Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8.1 Preview VM - 7 Pro x64 second remote tower
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by FerchogtX View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
It kind of reminds me of going back to 3.1 where you certainly couldn't do much of anything! You had some items on a still in development desktop gui without options!
Just what I thought when I tested CP... a backwards step... Heck... even the titles for windows are centered, just like old 3.11 days...
I have to take a look from an objective postition when saying that seeing how thiese types of changes MS is making with their main desktop product can leave you stumped! It was one thing to see the MinWin kernel introduced with 7 as a wey to refine the desktop OS even further as a form of progress to continue with each newer version to come.

But to trash the gui for that particular platform as well as strip out the features people were accustomed to? makes it less of an OS. One example is comparing 8 to how the embedded CE 6.0 edition of 7 is found on a smartbook. You immediately notice how limited the embedded OS can be fast! While 8 isn't that far downhill yet you can see the trend MS could be pursuing.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by boohbah View Post
im not the 8 fan club, i have 8 and i like it ,i decided to post in this thread as it is becoming tiresome reading the same old crap being spouted on a daily basis.
8 is here. why do people feel the need to harp on and on about it, those who dont like 8 dont use it,simple.
its not that you are being forced to use it, 7 will continue to be supported for some time.
the amusing thing is the loudest bitching about it is coming from people who dont/wont use it ,
before you start rattling your cages with claims that 8 is pre loaded on OEM's so it is forced.
then the alternative is to force a different OS (presuambly 7, and presumably you would approve of that
xp users didnt like that.)
or allow people a range of OS's to choose from which is obviously impractical from a business sense.

Would you use tablets and phones designed for a mouse? No?
Then why would we use a desktop OS designed for a touchscreen?

Touchscreens for a desktop are as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
Of course we don't use it, we don't like it! Why would we use it if we don't like it?

I agree boohbah, It'd be great if MS offered OS choices, but they didn't.
That's the problem, they offer a screen door on a submarine and tell us to take it or leave it. No choices, no options, no preferences. And now Blue is offering even more of the same.

The problem is not just W8, it's that they're systematically throwing the desktop under the bus!
Touchscreen for tablet still doesn't work out for the desktop platform being the number #1 issue! Simply stating fact isn't bashing the OS but the decision makers at MS who trashed the OS as well as Not Providing options for the user! Hindsight seems to be prevailing following the hugh success 7 saw and then seeing the working form of desktop OS turned into something else.

As far as the loudest complaints it comes from those "Who Have" tried 8 and found it wasn't something they want! There are other reasons besides just Metro or "Modern" to look at as well.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Apr 2013   #73

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
As far as the loudest complaints it comes from those "Who Have" tried 8 and found it wasn't something they want! There are other reasons besides just Metro or "Modern" to look at as well.
No, the loudest and most argumentative are from the ones who haven't actually used it, or decided within 5 minutes they weren't going to use it. There have been many threads on here, some probably deleted by name, due to the flaming by such people...only to later admit they didn't have much experience with it.

I'm sure there are some who have tried it...legitimately tried it, and decided not to use it. So be it. But I still have to ask why those people feel the need to bash the product and those who do use it? My four systems are split between two Windows 7 and two Windows 8 systems. I can see pros and cons to both. Why in the hell does anyone need to be bashed for using one or the other?

Fact is, Windows 8 is actually a very good OS. It runs well, it tests faster than 7, and it has some great features. There is no need or valid reason to bash it, aside from saying that the default desktop should have been offered as a choice...so you can choose Metro or Start Menu. Not a big deal, as it can be fixed easily, but that's about the only valid complaint. Windows 7 is also a very good OS...so people have choices.

The summary of my point is...it's perfectly fine to choose 7 over 8. What crosses the line to illogical and unnecessary is bashing Windows 8 or those who decide to use it.
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02 Apr 2013   #74

Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8.1 Preview VM - 7 Pro x64 second remote tower
 
 

I think the main concern by most right off the top is simple to understand! That is MS suddenly deciding to take the RT gu designed for touch and swipe tablet and slapping on the next desktop release which made little sense other then to promote their own new Surface Tablet line by making all new systems look the same! That was a marketing decision that will end up with some repercussions.

Upon looking at one graphic chart for the trends being seen for different versions as well as a few other OSs 8 is down along side OS X while XP is seeing a constant nose dive and 7 sales leveling off after 3yrs. time which would be the norm for any version. XP simply saw more sales this long due to the large gap of time between versions.

Now as for simply criticizing any new version doesn't automatically label someone as an "8 Basher"! With the way MS has gone about upturning the desktop platform as far as the loss of the desktop gui for a new tablet look simply isn't going to go over well no matter how good things are at the core level. You can have a 100% flawless OS still be seen as unusable when tampering with the things people "expect" to find and then get "something else" instead?

It's nice to see that MS had made progress with the MinWin kernel while at the same time not too inviting at how they just went ahead and stripped other things out of the OS they expect you to pay for! And the findings here with both the CP and RP builds was that 8 wasn't "so much faster" then 7 simply from saving a few seconds at startup! Overall 8 was lightweight due more to seeing less in it! That also made it less of an OS considering how well 7 worked out.

With the 32bit 7 if I had stayed with the 32bit OS and not moved into the 64bit as I had planned on doing back long before the 7 beta builds came along I would be running everything going back to Legacy where there would be some you just couldn't run anyways! On the 64bit 7 I gave up on some in favor of the 64bit OS. With 8 however some more plus less features and a new Tablet gui requiring a 3rd party solution despite whatever core improvements were seen made 8 a no go! It wasn't going to be worth the time especially trying to justify replacing a working OS(7) with it!

Obviously for the 8 fan club the software environment as well as other things are different there where 8 will work out for them just like any other version. For simply checking the mail and browsing the web I don't even need any Windows version for that! A simple live disk or live usb stick with a browser will take care of that if not having a smarty or I something or other.

The chioces as well as adivces I have to give others however has to be based on "What Does" and "What Doesn't" work! When asked about 7 and told about by a friend he would be buying a slightly used 8 laptop and was wondering about 7 instead never having run more then a passing look at the 7 RC I had to explain that would depend mainly on if the OEM had originally seen the same model where 7 came preinstalled in order to see if it had 7 drivers and updates available for it.

It's not a touch and swipe laptop and the touch pad is crazy likely from a defect where a separate mouse has to be plugged in in order to even use it! Now is that the "8 blame game" too? What gets you however is the original buyer had the option of returning the problematic laptop for one with 7 on it instead and didn't bother simply selling if off for a discount. Check the mail and social networking is the skill level there.
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03 Apr 2013   #75

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7600
 
 

you lost me at "i think".
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03 Apr 2013   #76

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
.....Fact is, Windows 8 is actually a very good OS......

Whether W8 is a good OS isn't exactly the issue. W8 is good for what it was designed for, touchscreens and mobile units, not desktops, and there's a reason for that. M$ wants to kill the desktop. Many in the industry are already predicting that they're planning to totally ditch the desktop for W9.

W8 was the 1st real step in that direction, and Blue is the second step.
Microsoft's not doing that because the market wants it, they're doing it because Microsoft wants it!
So are you ultimately in favor of ditching the desktop like Microsoft is?
Are you ready to give up your desktop for a tablet? I'm not!

IMO a vote for W8 is a vote to kill the desktop and I cannot agree to that.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Apr 2013   #77

Windows 7 Ultimate x64, XP Mode, W8.1 Preview VM - 7 Pro x64 second remote tower
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by boohbah View Post
you lost me at "i think".
Hope you got your rest when going to reread that again! You'll need it!

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
.....Fact is, Windows 8 is actually a very good OS......

Whether W8 is a good OS isn't exactly the issue. W8 is good for what it was designed for, touchscreens and mobile units, not desktops, and there's a reason for that. M$ wants to kill the desktop. Many in the industry are already predicting that they're planning to totally ditch the desktop for W9.

W8 was the 1st real step in that direction, and Blue is the second step.
Microsoft's not doing that because the market wants it, they're doing it because Microsoft wants it!
So are you ultimately in favor of ditching the desktop like Microsoft is?
Are you ready to give up your desktop for a tablet? I'm not!

IMO a vote for W8 is a vote to kill the desktop, and I cannot agree to that.
Blue will prove to be much like 98SE was to 98 with more of the same that people are up in arms about! While the core elements besides stripping away at features and bringing the price tags down and no longer seeing the high end editions sold on retail shelves which also makes no sense and can explain another type of slump the RT gui designed for tablet and not working up a desktop touch and swipe type gui instead is where MS is goofing with the desktop users in order to promote their new tablets.

The entire thing is obvious as a marketing decision to see 8 made to look just like RT but on desktops and laptops like a big promo for Surface rather then an actual new desktop release. The strategy is still to have a new desktop version out while promoting Surface at the user expense and inconvenience! MS doesn't seem to be worried if the desktop 8 flops like ME since they are invested in Surface not necessarily intent on doing away with the desktop but stalling on coming up with something worth looking at that won't need any 3rd party apps!

A VLC pseudo version not the actual VLC is found at the Metro apps store since WMP13 lacks codecs for dvd playback and MS slapping a freebie dvd player. One More VLC for Windows 8 Clone Shows Up in the Store - Softpedia
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Apr 2013   #78

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Whether W8 is a good OS isn't exactly the issue. W8 is good for what it was designed for, touchscreens and mobile units, not desktops.
That's absolutely the issue...whether or not it is a good OS or junk that so many feel the need to preach about how awful it is. It is most definitely for desktops...and that's the part that kills me...that so many people are getting hung up on the Metro interface. As I said above, the only real issue is that the choice of UI should have been given to the user. But it really is a non-issue, since so many 3rd party apps restore the Start Menu functionality. Once you do that, Windows 8 is every bit as capable as a desktop OS as Windows 7, and in many cases, it outperforms Windows 7. Maximum PC and CPU mag have both confirmed that in most games, the performance edge, while slight, goes to Windows 8.

Saying it's not a good OS just shows how narrow-focused people are when evaluating it. Yes, it sucks that it needs a 3rd-party app....but those are often free and plentiful in choice. It's a simple fix for the only real speedbump the OS has.

Microsoft is simply trying to streamline their UI across all devices. No one complains when Apple tries to do this. No one seems to be complaining that Ubuntu is doing this as well, including their mobile OS. Yet many people complain that Android doesn't have a standard UI.
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04 Apr 2013   #79

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Windows XP SP3, Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
Microsoft is simply trying to streamline their UI across all devices. No one complains when Apple tries to do this. No one seems to be complaining that Ubuntu is doing this as well, including their mobile OS. Yet many people complain that Android doesn't have a standard UI.
Based on market share, very few people use OS X anyway (compared to Windows).
Lots of people are forced to use Windows at work, but not many are forced to use OS X.

I have read comments from people complaining about how the new versions of various Mac programs have had features stripped out.
Presumably that is to "soften up" users for the eventual porting to iOS.

A lot of "old timers" abandoned Ubuntu, because of Unity and GNOME 3.
I swapped to Linux Mint MATE because of Unity and GNOME 3.

The only good thing I've got to say about Unity, is that (IMO) it's less annoying than Metro.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Apr 2013   #80

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dallas 7 View Post
Whether W8 is a good OS isn't exactly the issue. W8 is good for what it was designed for, touchscreens and mobile units, not desktops.
.......It is most definitely for desktops...and that's the part that kills me...that so many people are getting hung up on the Metro interface. As I said above, the only real issue is that the choice of UI should have been given to the user......

You're right, "the choice should've been given to the user", but it WASN'T! And why not?
Do you think they just forgot? Or maybe they meant to give us some options in BLUE but they just forgot again? What does that say for the future of the desktop?

How hard would it have been to just add an X in the top right of the screen as an option to close a program rather than require the user to swipe the screen from top to bottom like you'd do with a PHONE?
Oh wait, swipe like a phone? I thought 8 was "definitely for desktops"?

Deacon this is a legitimate question, please help me with this.....
Would you favor a desktop interface for your phone/tablet that was optimised for a mouse?
If not, why is it OK to stick desktop users with a phone/tablet interface optimised for touchscreen/swipe?

You said it "kills" you "that so many people are getting hung up on the Metro interface".
Since you already admitted that "the choice should've been given to the user", then shouldn't you be upset at Microsoft instead of your fellow desktop users?

We didn't screw up, Microsoft did, by your own admission.
Give us a break Deacon. Instead of expecting us to fix MS's screwups with 3rd party software that only fixes part of the mess, why not expect MS to clean up their own screw ups?
Then we can ALL be happy, and not just some of us.
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 Start8 and ModernMix -- Windows 8's last, best hope for normality




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