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Windows 7: Five operating system alternatives to Windows 8 and XP

13 Apr 2013   #31
Iforgot

Win7 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Saving space and not wanting to itemize responses

?).
Night Hawk
The distributions are pre-configured, self installing setups, for to suit preconceived ideas of what a distro maker believes there market to be, or what a user may want.
Some of them provide printed manual with the disc's, and some of these manuals are very good.
Others provide the pre-configured disc's alone, preprinted or burn't disc's for a few dollars, these are usually available as downloads too.
The source(binary) code is freely available in Tar packages.
RedHat started the package management idea, with RPM's, a predefined way of packaging source code with it's dependencies.
Debian (open source, no proprietary code) uses Deb packages.

M$ uses there own package management for the source code, There source code there way only.(proprietary). So theres only one way.

If you want a large number of disc's,,,,,, Debian, 8 DVD's, you could download them free or just buy the DVD's.

As for books, yes, I have a few, for Linux and for M$.
You always pay for knowledge, either OS or for the apps.

Same for training ie MCP's etc

Even for M$, I've seen the admins call in M$ to sort out quirks in the system..
If your servers are RedHat based then you can always ask RedHat, same with Sun or IBM etc.

And of course, always at a price, just depends on your admin staff's ability.

As for normal users, how many people come to sevenforums looking for advise, how many call a friend(resident geek) or call in the local shop.
A few clicks here and there and your a guru............. same with any software.


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13 Apr 2013   #32
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Hi there
I still maintain that for the average business going to Linux isn't really an option -- of course an IT dept can handle the actual computer upgrades / installs but the fact that there are so many different distros makes this not really a viable choice unless you are a large corporate who can afford to pay Red Hat huge amounts of money to maintain the whole kybosh.

What happens if you decide on distribution "X" and after a few years its not available or doesn't work very well any more.

(Note here I'm specifically talking about DESKTOPS and WORKSTATIONS - as servers are a very different ball game -- probably a lot of people at work accessing their applications / data via LANS probably don't realize that they are actually accessing some type of Virtual Server on a remote server farm anyway).

Then if you do employ a service organisation like Red Hat to maintain all this stuff it's likely to cost you just as much as your Windows agreements with Ms anyway plus of course you have the added complexity when hiring staff -- nearly everybody has experience with Windows - how many have experience with Linux apps. The Back end office production software might also need to be totally re-written -- not a cheap task by any manner of means and often can only be done in the Real World if you are either developing a totally new application or re-designing from scratch an existing application - and in a large organisation this can take many years to do.

For Home users the situation is entirely different -- most Linux users I know pride themselves on the number of different distros they've tried and are always switching after a few weeks / months from one to another one for no other reason often than "Im bored with "X" - I'm going to try "Y". Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing but most typical non technical users won't want to be any part of this scenario -- they just want to take the computer home, plug in various peripherals and forget it. I'll bet over 50% of this group probably wouldn't even apply updates if Windows didn't automatically do it for them.

Cheers
jimbo
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13 Apr 2013   #33
King Arthur

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Rolling distros aside, some Linux distros like Linux Mint also encourage complete fresh reinstalls as the preferred form of upgrading. Now, I'm an enthusiast, but even I have some reservations about effectively wiping my system every couple to several months when there's a new version out.
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13 Apr 2013   #34
Sarris

Windows 7 Professional x64
 
 

I use AutoCad daily, there are no alternatives to it. Windoze it all that it runs on.

Win 7 x64 is going to be my long term OS.
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13 Apr 2013   #35
Iforgot

Win7 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there
I still maintain that for the average business going to Linux isn't really an option -- of course an IT dept can handle the actual computer upgrades / installs but the fact that there are so many different distros makes this not really a viable choice unless you are a large corporate who can afford to pay Red Hat huge amounts of money to maintain the whole kybosh.

Cheers
jimbo
jimbo
Distro's????
Why would they worry about distro's?
They can make there own version for there own purpose and practices..
Just depends on how good the admin's are.

As for small business,
Most distro's have config's out of the box.
Most info is in the included manuals, just needs a new way of thinking.
It depends on how good the admins are.
There is help available on the net too.
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13 Apr 2013   #36
Iforgot

Win7 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
Rolling distros aside, some Linux distros like Linux Mint also encourage complete fresh reinstalls as the preferred form of upgrading. Now, I'm an enthusiast, but even I have some reservations about effectively wiping my system every couple to several months when there's a new version out.
It takes time to get used to a different way.
The last Linux I used was Caldera 2.something, years ago, but needed experience with MS$ again, for work.
Strange thing is, once you've played with it, it not so hard to get back into.

Why wipe a system for the new?????
Just upgrade "download on load" the new packages you need.

You need to get out of the M$ way of upgrades, In Linux you upgrade the packages as needed, most of the time, and I mean most,,,,,, you "do not" need to reboot the computer for this.
Just restart a process, or app.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Sarris View Post
I use AutoCad daily, there are no alternatives to it. Windoze it all that it runs on.

Win 7 x64 is going to be my long term OS.
I've been using win7 for a while now too, is a very good OS.
Just been using with Mint Mate for the last few days.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Apr 2013   #37
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
Rolling distros aside, some Linux distros like Linux Mint also encourage complete fresh reinstalls as the preferred form of upgrading. Now, I'm an enthusiast, but even I have some reservations about effectively wiping my system every couple to several months when there's a new version out.
Linux Mint is a relatively recently new distro there mostly ubuntu compatible only larger coming with preloaded options to install various things as well as the nicer gui. The Linux Mint Debian isn't ubuntu compatible while ubuntu is a Debian based flavor as well as LM and Knoppix live. The LMDebian release has only seen two releases one being the updated core to the initial one time release where you update the gui and packages as you go along while keeping the same one time install going.

That's quite a bit different then nuking the ubuntu xx.04 to install the xx.10 release 6 months later since ubuntu sees a fast turnover! I think that is why LM is having a good response over ubuntu since you get more out of each install without being hurried to get involved with the next build a few months later!

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there
I still maintain that for the average business going to Linux isn't really an option -- of course an IT dept can handle the actual computer upgrades / installs but the fact that there are so many different distros makes this not really a viable choice unless you are a large corporate who can afford to pay Red Hat huge amounts of money to maintain the whole kybosh.

Cheers
jimbo
jimbo
Distro's????
Why would they worry about distro's?
They can make there own version for there own purpose and practices..
Just depends on how good the admin's are.

As for small business,
Most distro's have config's out of the box.
Most info is in the included manuals, just needs a new way of thinking.
It depends on how good the admins are.
There is help available on the net too.
As I was saying before with select iT dept.s for larger companies not small business interests that maintain 100 or more workstations the servers will often see a Red Hat distribution that may be reworked to the particular needs for that one business. Colleges maintain their own Linux based servers as well such as the major universities. You will notice a good number of the US download sites for distros are some of those universities or prestigious colleges. One of the main reasons of course has to do with the curriculums each college or university offers.

And it's not only schools that tend to see a Linux platformed IT dept. while the typical home server wouldn't. Linux is still based on the UNIX platform which has been in use in the business community for too long to say they wouldn't use a Red Hat like Mandriva(previously Mandrake) or Fedora since those are two most commonly seen in use. The flexibility in a non prioritized open source OS is what makes that a viable option for special circumstances where a programmer then steps in to make the necessity modifications.

Now for seeing manuals and distros on optical media the price tags are generally there to cover costs of manufacture not for any profitable venture gains. For consultations that is something totally different being a service provided rather then any item being put out for sale like your local retail store's shelves. But to get some of these releases they are only available by media ordered for a price and not simply found available for download.
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13 Apr 2013   #38
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
Fully Customisable Installation

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
The distributions are pre-configured, self installing setups, for to suit preconceived ideas of what a distro maker believes there market to be, or what a user may want.
Last time I installed Fedora and OpenSUSE, the OS installers provided a fully customisable installation experience.

This ranged from "Terminal only (no Man pages)" to "All items (GUI and software packages) on the install disc".

Obviously, the average Smart Phone, or Tablet user, would have problems taking advantage of this feature.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
That's quite a bit different then nuking the ubuntu xx.04 to install the xx.10 release 6 months later since ubuntu sees a fast turnover! I think that is why LM is having a good response over ubuntu since you get more out of each install without being hurried to get involved with the next build a few months later!
Don't overlook the fact that Linux Mint comes with a traditional desktop GUI (not Unity or GNOME3).
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14 Apr 2013   #39
FuturDreamz

Windows 8 Pro (32-bit)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Golden View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Whether we like it or not there ISN'T any alternative to Windows and there really isn't likely to be any either.
I disagree....there are several excellent distributions around, and its far easier than it used to be, or is made out to be.

Try LinuxMint14 or Zorin....it has almost everything the home user needs.
If I tried every single distro that people told me to try because it "has *almost* everything the home user needs" or some other line, my hard drive platters would look like this:


and while it is possible for a business to develop their own unique distro of linux, now they have to employ a workforce to maintain and debug, and user's application support will be hit-and-miss.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Apr 2013   #40
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
The distributions are pre-configured, self installing setups, for to suit preconceived ideas of what a distro maker believes there market to be, or what a user may want.
Last time I installed Fedora and OpenSUSE, the OS installers provided a fully customisable installation experience.

This ranged from "Terminal only (no Man pages)" to "All items (GUI and software packages) on the install disc".

Obviously, the average Smart Phone, or Tablet user, would have problems taking advantage of this feature.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
That's quite a bit different then nuking the ubuntu xx.04 to install the xx.10 release 6 months later since ubuntu sees a fast turnover! I think that is why LM is having a good response over ubuntu since you get more out of each install without being hurried to get involved with the next build a few months later!
Don't overlook the fact that Linux Mint comes with a traditional desktop GUI (not Unity or GNOME3).
Well that just happens to be another bonus instead of looking at ubuntu LTS and Unity. I didn't care for Unity when that was stuffed into Opera and went back to the 9.64 flavor when having that browser on either. The LMDebian variation however is made to simplify things even further for Linux newbies by including some 200 options to install various programs and utilities rather then downloading them individually and then trying to make sense of any manual installation methods when not finding an automatic install option.

Most who try a distro jump on a live disk first and never fully learn Bash commands and console with that OS. That would like telling a long time Windows XP user who upgraded to Vista and 7 or just to 7 and never having worked with Dos to go backwards in that sense. The LMD is the one time Easy as Pie type release you only need to see the desktop and apps updated without ever having to wipe a drive or partition for the next number version.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by FuturDreamz View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Golden View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Whether we like it or not there ISN'T any alternative to Windows and there really isn't likely to be any either.
I disagree....there are several excellent distributions around, and its far easier than it used to be, or is made out to be.

Try LinuxMint14 or Zorin....it has almost everything the home user needs.
If I tried every single distro that people told me to try because it "has *almost* everything the home user needs" or some other line, my hard drive platters would look like this:


and while it is possible for a business to develop their own unique distro of linux, now they have to employ a workforce to maintain and debug, and user's application support will be hit-and-miss.
Gee I ran into someone once who had every distro it seemed installed and being run. Of course he also had a switch box he used when instantly changing to another OS without ever needing to reboot his workstation. Of course he also works for a dictionary company and has to be familiar with every OS not just every distro someone says is good! He must have some serious drive wear in that situation!
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 Five operating system alternatives to Windows 8 and XP




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