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Windows 7: Five operating system alternatives to Windows 8 and XP

16 Apr 2013   #51
Iforgot

Win7 64
 
 

Maybe the speed is relevant to how used to the OS you are...

ps
posted this booted from mint usb stick while loading mint on another partition.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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16 Apr 2013   #52
Cr00zng

Windows 7 64-bit, Windows 8.1 64-bit, OSX El Capitan, Windows 10 (VMware)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Linux has stacks of programs.

I think what you actually mean, is it needs Windows commercial packages (e.g. Adobe CS, MS Office, AutoCAD, etc.).

If you don't need those specific programs, you can create files using FOSS programs (e.g. AviDemux, GIMP, Libre or Open Office, etc.).
Yes, that is what I meant...

While Linux has stack of programs, the majority of them are not needed for most people who install Linux, other than the FOSS programs. Most of the FOSS programs will also run on Windows and there's no incentive for Windows users to switch OS, if they don't want to spend money on commercial packages. At the time when one can get a Windows box for 300-400 bucks, the hardware cost is pretty much even between Linux and Windows.

For business desktop, where commercial packages with support, central management, widely available support personnel, etc., available, there's even less incentive to switch.

I am not against FOSS programs and do use Audacity and AviDemux on Windows 7.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Apr 2013   #53
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Pretty much all of my programs are FOSS.
MS Office and VMware Workstation are the only exceptions I can think.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Took me around 30 mins to install W7 Enterprise from scratch together most of the software Nighthawk lists in the previous post -- and in fact some of that time was used in hunting down serial numbers for Photoshop and Office (I know I should have stored the serial numbers with the install disks !!!). That also included all the updates too.
Looking at your system specs, I assume that you must have a RAID setup.

On my PC , it takes at least:
  • 1 to 5 minutes (each) for the hardware drivers
  • 30 minutes to install SP1 (from a DVD) and probably that long again for all the updates since SP1
  • 5 -10 minutes to install an AV program + updates
  • 15 minutes to install Office 2007 (from an ISO)
  • 1 to 5 minutes (each) for the other 55+ programs
That doesn't include the time spent:
  • Rebooting
  • Configuring the Windows GUI and Services
  • Setting up the programs themselves (e.g. configuring Firefox, GIMP, MS Office, etc.)
  • Disabling the unnecessary services that programs like to install
I also create at least 2 backup HDD images after installing:
  • Windows + SP1 + updates
  • The programs
It's so much quicker to re-image my PC, than it is to reinstall Windows by itself.

It took at least 15 minutes to install Adobe CS6 on my friend's $3K gaming laptop, which has a 512GB SSD and super expensive i7 CPU.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Almost ANY version of Linux would take me considerably longer than that --
I don't see how (unless you include the time required to download the Linux distro ISO).

Given the time required to install Windows + Updates + Office installs on your PC, Linux Mint would install in under 10 minutes including all programs (obviously not MS Office or Photoshop).
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16 Apr 2013   #54
Cr00zng

Windows 7 64-bit, Windows 8.1 64-bit, OSX El Capitan, Windows 10 (VMware)
 
 

The licensing cost for VMware, MS Windows, and Office must be some pretty penny; the FOSS running on a cheap Windows box would probably cost less than running Linux, etc., for most people.

Installing Windows 7 really doesn't take that long on a newer system with SSD drive and slip-streamed OS, applications on a USB3.0 stick. For that matter, I even use USB 2.0 sticks for the Linux based rescue disks and they load a lot faster than from CD/DVD. I really don't use much the CD/DVD drives...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Apr 2013   #55
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Here I make up data recovery sticks using 2.0 flash drives while the 3.0 flash drives are still fetching the $100 for 16gb 3.0 and I order a 32gb 2.0 for now less then half of that price by the same brand? Plus the usb hub and other older machines are what? 2.0 only! I go with the capacity and still see a 4gb root on it separate from the large data partition first on the drive so Windows can find it!

Between dvd(original 7 media) and usb keys being 2.0 still as I was saying due to the high prices I still seem to average the 20min. norm for the first completed installing Windows first desktop load. Others go by the first restart as soon as the setup files have finished unpacking to the drive for a 12min. time which isn't a completed 7 install there just the copy process while the installation still has to continue on until it finishes.

Now the initial sweep for MS drivers is delayed while the first driver sets go on for board, video, sound, tv tuner card, immediately following activation. Then goes the initial update sweep from MS before then putting SP1 on. Times are about 5-10min. or so for drver installs and reboots required, plan another 15 for the MS updates and another pair of restarts, and then you have a good 20min. for SP1. In between all that somewhere I also install the full stand alone distribution unpacked for DX9c since that is required for a few old game titles.

If I get down to installing "everything" literally from scratch which includes all additional desktop shortcuts created and dragged into new addon toolbars that will take over a day! So within the first 3-5hrs. depending on what I am gearing for all at once or in a day so all the basics av and other programs are done in about 3-4hrs. time. Even that a good list of programs and utilities compiled over time.

With Linux on the other hand the Linux Mint Debian distro is a lot better then the regular Linix Mint releases since it will install to a flash drive with ease while the regular LM Mate and Cinnamon releases failed! Those seem to lack the options needed for some reason while they are smaller in size then the 200+ preloaded apps in the LMDebain release

Convenience of operation between both OSs using 7 as the example for Windows places places both Linux Mint and 7 close when compared as to finding your way around to get to things like the Control center and administrator in Linux and the Control Panel in Windows as well as display settings and Personalization once you have already tried out a few ubuntu releases for example not being a first time look at any distro which would be confusing somewhat on the other hand.

Geek's OS label still applies to an extent with Linux until getting familar with how to manually install programs on the other OS there. There is no double click on set.exe single executable file in the same manner as Windows works. Instead you have to download "each piece" of the pie with any Linux app if not compiled into a self contained packaged with installer included making it the Geek's OS there.

The "New, Latest and Brightest" as well as the more recent flavors have helped in simplifying things while still not being the ideal "User Friendly" OS for the novice user! Things have been made easier for the "New to Linux" crowd over the years while the OS still lacks in many ways for the simple fact of being headed in too many directions all at the same time! You might find that simply being "too many flavors to choose from" in that sense!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Apr 2013   #56
Cr00zng

Windows 7 64-bit, Windows 8.1 64-bit, OSX El Capitan, Windows 10 (VMware)
 
 

To install Linux Mint Debian on a flash drive, one would need the ISO and Universal USB Installer or UUI. Any reason why the two cannot be integrated into a single Windows executable that runs UUI, the user select the USB drive, and off it goes? After all, the UUI is just a little over 1MBs...

The UUI installed Linux Mint quickly on my Voyager 64GBs USB 3.0 stick, but wouldn't let me create greater than 4GBs persistent partition. Unfortunately, it wouldn't boot in my system. I was just curious, but don't have time to find the reason for not booting...

The 64GBs USB 3.0 was around 80 bucks...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Apr 2013   #57
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
To install Linux Mint Debian on a flash drive, one would need the ISO and Universal USB Installer or UUI. Any reason why the two cannot be integrated into a single Windows executable that runs UUI, the user select the USB drive, and off it goes? After all, the UUI is just a little over 1MBs...

The UUI installed Linux Mint quickly on my Voyager 64GBs USB 3.0 stick, but wouldn't let me create greater than 4GBs persistent partition. Unfortunately, it wouldn't boot in my system. I was just curious, but don't have time to find the reason for not booting...

The 64GBs USB 3.0 was around 80 bucks...
We made a bad investment - I bought an expensive fast USB3 stick too. And it is not all that good for running a Linux distro (I run Fedora right now from that stick).

A much better solution is to run from an external SSD. I bought a 60GB SSD for $59.95 plus a few bucks for the USB3 enclosure and I run Mint Mate, Zorin (and Windows 8) from there under VMware Player (free). Works beautifully and very fast with the added advantage that you can run it side by side with the host OS and need not reboot all the time. Plus, you can run those systems on any machine that have VMware Player installed (a 3 minute affair).

If you want to try it, here is some tutorial material I put together.

Portable OS - Carry your OS on an External Drive

And here is a whole series of tutorials I made regarding Mint Mate. If you double click on it in Chrome, you can read and control it in your browser. Else just download it (2 PDF pages).

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=475a0...A6D4035%211856
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Apr 2013   #58
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
The licensing cost for VMware, MS Windows, and Office must be some pretty penny; the FOSS running on a cheap Windows box would probably cost less than running Linux, etc., for most people.
Depends on whether you qualify for a discount (e.g. student) or not (~$300 to >$1000 depending on software versions).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
Installing Windows 7 really doesn't take that long on a newer system with SSD drive and slip-streamed OS, applications on a USB3.0 stick. For that matter, I even use USB 2.0 sticks for the Linux based rescue disks and they load a lot faster than from CD/DVD. I really don't use much the CD/DVD drives...
Last time I tried to create a slipstreamed W7 +SP1 install disc, using RT7Lite, the installer failed during the final stage.

That seems to depends on the brand and model.
I installed Ubuntu 10 on a SanDisk USB stick, thinking it would be more convenient than the Live CD.
The Live CD version was faster. The USB version got to the splash screen faster, but then it spent literally 5 minutes doing nothing.

The USB version could be easily updated though.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Here I make up data recovery sticks using 2.0 flash drives while the 3.0 flash drives are still fetching the $100 for 16gb 3.0 and I order a 32gb 2.0 for now less then half of that price by the same brand? Plus the usb hub and other older machines are what? 2.0 only! I go with the capacity and still see a 4gb root on it separate from the large data partition first on the drive so Windows can find it!
Ouch!
My supplier has USB 3 Flash sticks for ~$1/GB.
Five operating system alternatives to Windows 8 and XP-usb-prices-msy-12-04-03-.png
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Between dvd(original 7 media) and usb keys being 2.0 still as I was saying due to the high prices I still seem to average the 20min. norm for the first completed installing Windows first desktop load. Others go by the first restart as soon as the setup files have finished unpacking to the drive for a 12min. time which isn't a completed 7 install there just the copy process while the installation still has to continue on until it finishes.
I use your "frame of reference".
It's installed, when you can open the desktop and start doing stuff (i.e. customising, installing, updating, etc.).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Now the initial sweep for MS drivers is delayed while the first driver sets go on for board, video, sound, tv tuner card, immediately following activation. Then goes the initial update sweep from MS before then putting SP1 on. Times are about 5-10min. or so for drver installs and reboots required, plan another 15 for the MS updates and another pair of restarts, and then you have a good 20min. for SP1. In between all that somewhere I also install the full stand alone distribution unpacked for DX9c since that is required for a few old game titles.

If I get down to installing "everything" literally from scratch which includes all additional desktop shortcuts created and dragged into new addon toolbars that will take over a day! So within the first 3-5hrs. depending on what I am gearing for all at once or in a day so all the basics av and other programs are done in about 3-4hrs. time. Even that a good list of programs and utilities compiled over time.
Agreed.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
With Linux on the other hand the Linux Mint Debian distro is a lot better then the regular Linix Mint releases since it will install to a flash drive with ease while the regular LM Mate and Cinnamon releases failed! Those seem to lack the options needed for some reason while they are smaller in size then the 200+ preloaded apps in the LMDebain release
Installation or Live?
I read that Linux Mint uses a different system to Ubuntu for their Live versions (boot? or unpack?).

I managed to create a Live version of my physical install (requires my user name and password).
I haven't been able to figure out how to create a generic version (i.e. I can just modify the user name and password, but I can't create a "superuser, no password" version).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Geek's OS label still applies to an extent with Linux until getting familar with how to manually install programs on the other OS there. There is no double click on set.exe single executable file in the same manner as Windows works. Instead you have to download "each piece" of the pie with any Linux app if not compiled into a self contained packaged with installer included making it the Geek's OS there.
Agreed.

Manual software installation is a:
  • "No-no" for basic users
  • "PITA" for intermediate users (like me)
  • "Doddle" for expert users ("Command Line Jockeys")
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
The "New, Latest and Brightest" as well as the more recent flavors have helped in simplifying things while still not being the ideal "User Friendly" OS for the novice user! Things have been made easier for the "New to Linux" crowd over the years while the OS still lacks in many ways for the simple fact of being headed in too many directions all at the same time! You might find that simply being "too many flavors to choose from" in that sense!
Whilst some choice is good, too much choice is bad.
I have read articles that indicate, that customers start to become alienated, if the number of choices exceeds a certain value.
Obviously that value depends on the product/service involved.

Arguably, the fact that Linux is free means that "Market Forces" don't apply (e.g. Vista vs W7).
An awful Linux distro has as much chance of success, as an excellent Linux distro.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Apr 2013   #59
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
To install Linux Mint Debian on a flash drive, one would need the ISO and Universal USB Installer or UUI. Any reason why the two cannot be integrated into a single Windows executable that runs UUI, the user select the USB drive, and off it goes? After all, the UUI is just a little over 1MBs...

The UUI installed Linux Mint quickly on my Voyager 64GBs USB 3.0 stick, but wouldn't let me create greater than 4GBs persistent partition. Unfortunately, it wouldn't boot in my system. I was just curious, but don't have time to find the reason for not booting...

The 64GBs USB 3.0 was around 80 bucks...
The regular LMint seems to serve best live rather then custom installing it. As for the Debian release that does not require any usb installer! From any live source like a dvd you simply partition and format the flash drive as you go along assigning the second root partition as the mount point "/" and making sure you select the flash drive itself not any partition to see Grub installed. The release has been quite reliable and is carried on a 32gb Kingston in a key chainer holder for two flash drives.

As for flash drive prices I shop around for a specific size by a select brand to see what comes up and 64gb models by the better brands tend to run over $100! based on 2012 prices however! Upon looking at newegg now for a 64gb 2.0 drive they have it listed now for $40 which is less then what I had paid out for the 32gb model found elsewhere showing 2.0 prices have dropped sharply! A kingston HyperX(preferred here but usually much higher priced then Data Traveler series) fetches $90 for a 64gb 3.0 model.

Now for a custom install to the second OS drive(internal) here the LMD second release(updated build from Sept. 2011 original) went right on without fuss. I took about 110gb off the top of the drive and created a second main volume for system images there to have a dedicated spot freeing up the second storage drive to be used to back up the first.

The end result as a slightly faster 15min. working install and then going in and selecting to install from the long list of app options. Personal selection is something you can't measure time on while figure I had several selected and installed within an hour's time. What each install option does is actually download the actual app for you and then proceeds to install them in one slightly longer process then the separate download by user and then clicking the setup. Some downloads while not any larger still tend to take a bit longer then others while the method makes installing several things go easier being a plus seen there.

Now for the RT7 Lite there's one biggie problem you apparently ran into. If you bought 7 when first out or at least prior to the SP1 release slipsteaming the service pack in poses another problem of not being able to activate Windows! The same goes for downloading from Digital Rivers any iso with SP1 included. You have to have a post SP1 key to start with if not having any paid MSDN or TechNet subscription where a key per download is provided. So that left seeing SP1 wrapped up with all those updates out!

By the way the 32gb flash found at buy.com for $50 was about $70 at newegg apparently seeing a large mark down can be seen at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA1050NV7947

Other DT model have the push out type slider button while these flip out to plug in. The small 2gb version isn't too reliable however while the other larger 4gb, 8gb, and 16gb have worked out each time.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Apr 2013   #60
FuturDreamz

Windows 8 Pro (32-bit)
 
 

Wow. At this point you can use my lacrimal to glaze a ham.
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 Five operating system alternatives to Windows 8 and XP




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