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Windows 7: Microsoft readies 'Mohoro' Windows desktop as a service

06 May 2013   #31
legacy7955

win 7 home premium 64 bit
 
 

I can't say things any better than jimbo45 has in this thread.

Well thought out, and logical posts.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
06 May 2013   #32
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Mozilla was the best and smartest move that Netscape could take in ivew of how M$$$$ has been able to manipulate things over the years. Recently they still managed to prevail over the EU's enforcement of offering a list of browsers in the EU releases where people were finding IE was all there was when going to buy 7 new. They slid past again!

Night Hawk

M$ worked a way around having IE as default, well maybe not default but still there, and you cannot remove it totally because it's needed for updates.....

Mozilla and open source was probably the only way to keep there code safe from M$
MS didn't have to steal any code from Mozilla. It actually went to the contrary with IE suddenly seeing tabbed browsing come in with IE 7-8 to get people more interested in using the default browser over opting for 3rd party alternatives which was often the case since IE 6 was nothing but a large security hole to begin with!

The idea of having a default browser included with the OS is actually the best move in many ways for the various OSs not just Windows alone. Afterall how do you get connected online and get out on the web if you don't have any browser to start with? FireFox was of course the common browser for most but not all distros. Ice Weasel and Konqueror are two other open source browsers most people don't even know are out there as well as the 64bit flavor of FF namely WaterFox which has proven itself far better then FF any day of the week.

The main difference and big hubla about IE coming included however is that Windows is a paid for OS while your typical ubuntu download is a freebie for home use. Ubuntu, Knoppix Live, Linux Mint are branch offs from Debian while Solaris, Mac, and certain Red Hat Enterprise distros see commercial application even while Mac is for home as well as office.

Netscape being the predacessor of course became outdated and eventually saw it's last Navagator 9 release which I had on here for a bit and actually found that a bit better then Chrome! I still wouldn't run that any longer for the two reasons of being too old as well as limited compared to WaterFox, Ice Weasel for Windows, Opera being another Mozilla success.

Besides all that the results of each browser will tend to vary while you know IE is MS compatible which is necessary for MS elements for their own products. Once you move into a web based MS desktop deal you end up back with IE again for things like Silverlight, Active x, Adobe, and the entire ancholatta automatically due to being directly under MS control factors. Just like the Silverlight OS or "Silver OS" Windows4All site you are limited by the concepts deployed into a working environment.

Unlike the stand alone type desktop you enjoy now however you will be restricted on choices to what is incorporated into that type of remote controlled web service that will have it's limitations as well as whatever positive factors one being "maintained by MS" eliminating the worry of the user as far as fixing anything that breaks. While that would become a subscription service and won't work for the advanced user obviously the green or less informed may adhere to something like this over worry about how to fix a broken Preinstall.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 May 2013   #33
Iforgot

Win7 64
 
 

Night Hawk

Just got home from work and thought "who did start the web browser? "

So found this..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

An interesting read.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

07 May 2013   #34
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Mozilla was the best and smartest move that Netscape could take in ivew of how M$$$$ has been able to manipulate things over the years. Recently they still managed to prevail over the EU's enforcement of offering a list of browsers in the EU releases where people were finding IE was all there was when going to buy 7 new. They slid past again!

Night Hawk

M$ worked a way around having IE as default, well maybe not default but still there, and you cannot remove it totally because it's needed for updates.....

Mozilla and open source was probably the only way to keep there code safe from M$
MS didn't have to steal any code from Mozilla. It actually went to the contrary with IE suddenly seeing tabbed browsing come in with IE 7-8 to get people more interested in using the default browser over opting for 3rd party alternatives which was often the case since IE 6 was nothing but a large security hole to begin with!

The idea of having a default browser included with the OS is actually the best move in many ways for the various OSs not just Windows alone. Afterall how do you get connected online and get out on the web if you don't have any browser to start with? FireFox was of course the common browser for most but not all distros. Ice Weasel and Konqueror are two other open source browsers most people don't even know are out there as well as the 64bit flavor of FF namely WaterFox which has proven itself far better then FF any day of the week.

The main difference and big hubla about IE coming included however is that Windows is a paid for OS while your typical ubuntu download is a freebie for home use. Ubuntu, Knoppix Live, Linux Mint are branch offs from Debian while Solaris, Mac, and certain Red Hat Enterprise distros see commercial application even while Mac is for home as well as office.

Netscape being the predacessor of course became outdated and eventually saw it's last Navagator 9 release which I had on here for a bit and actually found that a bit better then Chrome! I still wouldn't run that any longer for the two reasons of being too old as well as limited compared to WaterFox, Ice Weasel for Windows, Opera being another Mozilla success.

Besides all that the results of each browser will tend to vary while you know IE is MS compatible which is necessary for MS elements for their own products. Once you move into a web based MS desktop deal you end up back with IE again for things like Silverlight, Active x, Adobe, and the entire ancholatta automatically due to being directly under MS control factors. Just like the Silverlight OS or "Silver OS" Windows4All site you are limited by the concepts deployed into a working environment.

Unlike the stand alone type desktop you enjoy now however you will be restricted on choices to what is incorporated into that type of remote controlled web service that will have it's limitations as well as whatever positive factors one being "maintained by MS" eliminating the worry of the user as far as fixing anything that breaks. While that would become a subscription service and won't work for the advanced user obviously the green or less informed may adhere to something like this over worry about how to fix a broken Preinstall.
Hi there

If you BUY Windows then if you find your choices on the web are restricted (Ms Silverlight for example - although that will be phased out eventually) then that's YOUR choice -- I mean do you buy for example an Ipod music player and automatically expect it to play say the old Minidisc ATRAC3 codec or even (which I find strange) the well known FLAC codec. No - You've bought into that device because it does what you want at the time you bought it.

These days there are better choices available such as most music players on smart phones which can play all sorts of codecs (apart from the ATRAC3 one which is quite rare and only known to minidisc users if there are any left - great RECORDING device too in its day though)

If there are services / products available on the web that don't work decently with windows then its up to the 3rd party developers to engage with Ms to fix it.

A lot of the problems though are caused by totally UNREASONABLE DRM requirements from Hollywood etc. I mean for instance for years you could never get a functioning DVD player for Linux straight OOB -- you had to source some decryption software (usually libdvdcss ) from sites in places like Brazil / Russia etc and then go through uninstall and re-install multi-media content -- and why in 2013 are we STILL putting up with regional encoding on DVD's when everybody knows this just doesn't work at all now - most computers (and TV's) play NTSC / PAL / HD TV without any problems and things like VLC player have long eliminated the need for that type of garbage.

It's not all Windows fault -- Ms will go over BACKWARDS to make as many devices / functions usuable with Windows --why shouldn't it -- the more products that work with Windows the more copies will be sold - both of the 3rd party application and Windows itself.

There's no point from either a technical or Financial perspective to severely restrict what applications and devices windows can handle -- and if you aren't happy with Ms's products you can always switch --it's not as if there's NO alternative.

With Cloud services / web based services it's slightly different as its YOU who decide on the services on offer and can buy into it or not. Almost like buying a Car - If you want features that are only available in a BMW then you don't buy a Honda Civic. So if Ms only offer specific cloud service choose another provider otherwise write / create your own. could be some Big Bucks to be made there.

My only worry is that eventually Stand alone OS'es will be dead and we'll all have to look at subscription based services -- however with the software I currently have I'll probably be long dead and buried before I HAVE to use these services.

In a Workplace I couldn't be bothered -- that's the job of the work place bosses and it's the clients who pay you your money - but on MY OWN devices its MY CHOICE and will remain so.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 May 2013   #35
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
Night Hawk

Just got home from work and thought "who did start the web browser? "

So found this..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_web_browser

An interesting read.
You'll find quite a bit at wikipedia on just about anything! If you browse even further you will actually find several pages of links in the search results depending on which engine you use as well.

One site that links to wikipedia as well as other sites you may find interesting is the summation seen at W3C.org The history of the Web

You'll notice Opera was able to slip in there much earlier then FireFox and the rest during the browser war era. Here in 2013 you now would need to look at another wikipedia page to discover a good listing but still not all browsers out there. You won't find Flock for example included in the List of web browsers at
wiki.

As for subscription services jimbo45 that would seem to be the trend when you consider the offers by ISPs alone to watch media on your IPad or other device with some providing the hand helds namely the phone companies like Verizon and AT&T while the cable tv/internet companies with VoIP will provide their online options for using anything from laptop to "Kindle Dwindle" while on the go.

Look at this way! The noobs will go for the no fuss subcription when simply not wanting to move the mouse cursor around a few search engines to look up a solution for a problem they are having with the home pc. Many will like not having to lug the family Dell mini tower down to some local pc repair shop and the wait but would simply like to pay the one monthly and call it a day and let whoever else worry about fixing things. They subscribe for tv, phone, internet, and now they can subscribe for a self maintained desktop OS as well.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 May 2013   #36
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I'm thinking their might be another reason for so many cloud offerings. When one buys from a off shore cloud from company (A), company (A) may have a way of side stepping the taxes on the income of such sales from their native country. Companies like Microsoft or Apple would save billions on taxes.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 May 2013   #37
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

"Loopholes" are the commonly sought strategies didn't you know?! I thinkest most have heardest about the Cayman Islands and other offshore whatevers over the years when various interests have been caught trying to conceal assets of all types!

It wouldn't be billions so much but more like hundreds of millions which are mere drops in the bucket when looking at the estimated worth of just MS alone! When BG stepped down as CEO on 1/13/2000 he was estimated to be worth some $46billion back then! And speaking of Wikipedia here's something to show just how they can take in as well as lose in just one quarter noting online services tossed into the mix.

Quote:
Financial

Standard and Poor's and Moody's have both given a AAA rating to Microsoft, whose assets were valued at $41 billion as compared to only $8.5 billion in unsecured debt. Consequently, in February 2011 Microsoft released a corporate bond amounting to $2.25 billion with relatively low borrowing rates compared to government bonds.[95]

For the first time in 20 years Apple Inc. surpassed Microsoft in Q1 2011 quarterly profits and revenues due to a slowdown in PC sales and continuing huge losses in Microsoft's Online Services Division (which contains its search engine Bing). Microsoft profits were $5.2 billion, while Apple Inc. profits were $6 billion, on revenues of $14.5 billion and $24.7 billion respectively.[96]

Microsoft's Online Services Division has been continuously loss-making since 2006 and in Q1 2011 it lost $726 million. This follows a loss of $2.5 billion for the year 2010.[97]

On July 20, 2012, Microsoft posted its first quarterly loss ever, despite earning record revenues for the quarter and fiscal year. Microsoft reported a net loss of $492 million; the 2007 acquisition of advertising company aQuantive for $6.2 billion and problems associated with it have been cited as the cause.[98]
Microsoft
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2013   #38
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Hi there
Actually - at least here things like Internet / Phone / TV are bundled into cheap packages - and often if you take the phone package the Internet is Free (it isn't really - but often its a good deal).

People are used to paying for CONSUMPTION of services such as Phone, Utilities etc - because these are essentially "Streamed" services that you can't really own.

When it comes to Software or even hardware it's a different issue - these types of offerings are discrete entities which can quite easily be OWNED and quite rightly people want to Own them.

Anybody who thinks paying a subscription will make things cheaper should consider things like -would you rather pay a RENTAL amount per month for a Car or buy one. - I know what's much cheaper for me -- my 12 year old BMW still runs far better and is infinitely more comfortable than paying say 300 USD a month (or more) for a new rental cheap Honda or the like. Monthly rental of a BMW would be a total waste of money.

I don't have an issue with paying say a subscription for movies for example as that's almost equivalent to a visit to the cinema and essentially you are buying a SERVICE.

Distinctions between what should be a service and what you can own is a bit blurry - but I think you see the point of the post -- Software isn't essentially a Service so you should be able to buy it (or a perpetual license to use it).

Would you for example pay say 0.05 c every time you took a picture on a smart phone - or would you pay for the OS in addition to the phone service for your mobile.

If Ms get away with their model we could see this type of practice creeping in too.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2013   #39
Iforgot

Win7 64
 
 

another one on this is...
"Would you for example pay say 0.05 c every time you took a picture on a smart phone - or would you pay for the OS in addition to the phone service for your mobile."
and also as per FaceBook.. you find out that you don't have the rights to the pictures you took either

Another one is...
Maybe if "us dump users" focus on the usability of the Win8 Modern Gui, we want notice how DRM and Subscription has been integrated into the OS even more...

Dam I feel I getting paranoid
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2013   #40
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Did Al Gore invent Windows 8 like he did the Internet?
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 Microsoft readies 'Mohoro' Windows desktop as a service




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