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Windows 7: Coffee shops look to oust 'laptop hobos'

11 Jul 2013   #21
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Hi folks
All this stuff will probably be a moot point now 4G is being rolled out -- at least here in Europe -- the 4G service beats the cr@p out of the standard public 3G Wifi services -- and most phone contracts over here offer free Wi-Fi service (where available) . For instance in the UK some phone contracts offer BT's Wi-Fi service which has pretty good UK coverage while if you are a subscriber to things like Virgin or SKY you can also get access to their free Wifi services -- I think SKY's is called something like _CLOUD and it seems to be available almost anywhere I travel in the UK.

In France I think ORANGE has a pretty reliable national Wifi service too.

These services really make the reliance on Wifi outlets in stores etc a lot less necessary. (Note that these Wi-Fi services can be used with laptops and tablets as well as your phone and aren't riddled with commercials --that gets really annoying when I'm doing things --I HATE unsolicited commercials if I'm not WARNED that these are there to support the cost of the free service first ).

IMO if you want to "socialize" then I can't understand why one would go into an Internet café in the first place so I don't think that's the reason people go there for hours at a time without purchasing anything.

Anyway when you can get access to 4G --try it -- it's amazing.

Cheers
jimbo


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
11 Jul 2013   #22
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PeaB4YouGo View Post
I had a neighbor who noticed for weeks about a guy who parked in front of her bldg., day after day, to the point where she called the cops. They couldn't do much about someone parking legally on the street, but they promised to keep a look out while on patrol. After a couple days, they spotted him and questioned him. The cops told her that he was tapping the wi-fi of someone who hadn't secured their signal, and there was little they could do other than to warn him that he was spooking the residents.

So, she called me a couple of days later and asked me to come by to help her set up her new router. When the time came to set up the wi-fi section, I asked her what kind of passkey she wanted, she (inevitably) said she'd never had to set that up with her old router. Oddly enough, after setting this all up, and getting her laptop configured to connect to her new router, the guy stopped showing up, and several of her neighbors began to ask if they could use her wi-fi because they'd recently lost their connections.

Your police are either lazy or ignorant. Unauthorized internet access is a Federal violation. Loitering is also illegal in most jurisdictions.
Hi there
While US Federal Law isn't my strong point (why should it be as I'm not a US resident) I think any competent Lawyer would run rings around "Unauthorized Internet Access". The only way this would get anywhere near any sort of Court (in decent civilized democratic countries) would be if a message appeared as soon as you logged on to the service saying something like "This is a private Computer system and only specifically authorized people are entitled to access it. If you are not one of these you are committing a violation so please log off now".

However it's probably a lot easier to just set up a decent passkey on your router than create a logon message. However if you do get Hackers on your system having this type of logon message would make prosecution a lot easier (assuming the hacker was in your jurisdiction).

Anyway glad problem seemed solved. !!!

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2013   #23
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PeaB4YouGo View Post
I had a neighbor who noticed for weeks about a guy who parked in front of her bldg., day after day, to the point where she called the cops. They couldn't do much about someone parking legally on the street, but they promised to keep a look out while on patrol. After a couple days, they spotted him and questioned him. The cops told her that he was tapping the wi-fi of someone who hadn't secured their signal, and there was little they could do other than to warn him that he was spooking the residents.

So, she called me a couple of days later and asked me to come by to help her set up her new router. When the time came to set up the wi-fi section, I asked her what kind of passkey she wanted, she (inevitably) said she'd never had to set that up with her old router. Oddly enough, after setting this all up, and getting her laptop configured to connect to her new router, the guy stopped showing up, and several of her neighbors began to ask if they could use her wi-fi because they'd recently lost their connections.

Your police are either lazy or ignorant. Unauthorized internet access is a Federal violation. Loitering is also illegal in most jurisdictions.
Hi there
While US Federal Law isn't my strong point (why should it be as I'm not a US resident) I think any competent Lawyer would run rings around "Unauthorized Internet Access". The only way this would get anywhere near any sort of Court (in decent civilized democratic countries) would be if a message appeared as soon as you logged on to the service saying something like "This is a private Computer system and only specifically authorized people are entitled to access it. If you are not one of these you are committing a violation so please log off now".

However it's probably a lot easier to just set up a decent passkey on your router than create a logon message. However if you do get Hackers on your system having this type of logon message would make prosecution a lot easier (assuming the hacker was in your jurisdiction).

Anyway glad problem seemed solved. !!!

Cheers
jimbo
Any halfway competent DA would have no trouble making the charge stick and get a conviction. Every now and then, I see a news report about it happening. Plus there is the loitering charge; that one is even easier to make stick.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

11 Jul 2013   #24
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Your police are either lazy or ignorant. Unauthorized internet access is a Federal violation. Loitering is also illegal in most jurisdictions.
Hi there
While US Federal Law isn't my strong point (why should it be as I'm not a US resident) I think any competent Lawyer would run rings around "Unauthorized Internet Access". The only way this would get anywhere near any sort of Court (in decent civilized democratic countries) would be if a message appeared as soon as you logged on to the service saying something like "This is a private Computer system and only specifically authorized people are entitled to access it. If you are not one of these you are committing a violation so please log off now".

However it's probably a lot easier to just set up a decent passkey on your router than create a logon message. However if you do get Hackers on your system having this type of logon message would make prosecution a lot easier (assuming the hacker was in your jurisdiction).

Anyway glad problem seemed solved. !!!

Cheers
jimbo
Any halfway competent DA would have no trouble making the charge stick and get a conviction. Every now and then, I see a news report about it happening. Plus there is the loitering charge; that one is even easier to make stick.

Hi there
While not turning this into a "Lawyers Fest" I don't think your DA would have a snowballs chance in hell of winning on this one.

Just imagine if I were to use a laptop say in a coffee shop / restaurant on say St. Monica Boulevard in West Hollywood CA which is also a large residential neighbourhood as well as having loads of Bars etc where large numbers of people congregate and is one of LA's most popular tourist areas situated roughly half way between downtown LA and the great beaches of Santa Monica with Beverly Hills just a stones throw away and the very pleasant UCLA campus just nearby.

I switch on my computer and see a whole slew of Wifi networks available -- some of which say Unsecured. How in the world would I as an "Innocent Tourist" be expected to have ANY IDEA whatsoever of what is a FREE public Wifi service and what is private without a logon warning message on a private service. Some of the names assigned to the networks would also not offer ANY indication that they were private networks either.

Of course people should always secure their networks -- even FREE ones in public areas should have some sort of password / other credentials required before enabling logon access.

Maybe I should take up another career before I finally "hang up my boots" -- as a Lawyer in the US. !!!

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2013   #25
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post

Hi there
While US Federal Law isn't my strong point (why should it be as I'm not a US resident) I think any competent Lawyer would run rings around "Unauthorized Internet Access". The only way this would get anywhere near any sort of Court (in decent civilized democratic countries) would be if a message appeared as soon as you logged on to the service saying something like "This is a private Computer system and only specifically authorized people are entitled to access it. If you are not one of these you are committing a violation so please log off now".

However it's probably a lot easier to just set up a decent passkey on your router than create a logon message. However if you do get Hackers on your system having this type of logon message would make prosecution a lot easier (assuming the hacker was in your jurisdiction).

Anyway glad problem seemed solved. !!!

Cheers
jimbo
Any halfway competent DA would have no trouble making the charge stick and get a conviction. Every now and then, I see a news report about it happening. Plus there is the loitering charge; that one is even easier to make stick.

Hi there
While not turning this into a "Lawyers Fest" I don't think your DA would have a snowballs chance in hell of winning on this one.

Just imagine if I were to use a laptop say in a coffee shop / restaurant on say St. Monica Boulevard in West Hollywood CA which is also a large residential neighbourhood as well as having loads of Bars etc where large numbers of people congregate and is one of LA's most popular tourist areas situated roughly half way between downtown LA and the great beaches of Santa Monica with Beverly Hills just a stones throw away and the very pleasant UCLA campus just nearby.

I switch on my computer and see a whole slew of Wifi networks available -- some of which say Unsecured. How in the world would I as an "Innocent Tourist" be expected to have ANY IDEA whatsoever of what is a FREE public Wifi service and what is private without a logon warning message on a private service. Some of the names assigned to the networks would also not offer ANY indication that they were private networks either.

Of course people should always secure their networks -- even FREE ones in public areas should have some sort of password / other credentials required before enabling logon access.

Maybe I should take up another career before I finally "hang up my boots" -- as a Lawyer in the US. !!!

Cheers
jimbo
Your scenario is completely different from the one PeaB4YouGo described of a guy parking for long periods over several days in a residential area for the purpose of stealing internet access. He even admitted it to the police. As I said, I've read of instances where people were convicted for stealing internet access. I even saw an episode of Cops where a guy was charged with loitering and stealing internet access from his car in a residential neighborhood. The police later were able to determine he had been doing something illegal on his computer (I don't remember what) and was using unsecured networks to try to hide his tracks.

Keep in mind laws vary from country to country.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2013   #26
PeaB4YouGo

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PeaB4YouGo View Post
I had a neighbor who noticed for weeks about a guy who parked in front of her bldg., day after day, to the point where she called the cops. They couldn't do much about someone parking legally on the street, but they promised to keep a look out while on patrol. After a couple days, they spotted him and questioned him. The cops told her that he was tapping the wi-fi of someone who hadn't secured their signal, and there was little they could do other than to warn him that he was spooking the residents.

So, she called me a couple of days later and asked me to come by to help her set up her new router. When the time came to set up the wi-fi section, I asked her what kind of passkey she wanted, she (inevitably) said she'd never had to set that up with her old router. Oddly enough, after setting this all up, and getting her laptop configured to connect to her new router, the guy stopped showing up, and several of her neighbors began to ask if they could use her wi-fi because they'd recently lost their connections.

Your police are either lazy or ignorant. Unauthorized internet access is a Federal violation. Loitering is also illegal in most jurisdictions.
First, I'm not the legal expert or anything, but it is implied that if you haven't secured your wi-fi, you've authorized anyone who can receive the signal to use it as they may. The law may not look at it that way, but it should. It's like turning the volume up on your speaker phone and getting pissed when people eavesdrop on your conversation. Secondly, he was parked legally and sitting in his car. That's not loitering. At least, not in most towns/cities. I've sat in the car waiting for the wifey for more than an hour while she "shopped" and that's not "loitering", that's "loving patience". Just my opinion...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2013   #27
MilesAhead

Windows 7 32 bit
 
 

Another thing that nettles about the homeless access is being lumped in with the "undesirables" and blamed for their transgressions. When court decisions caused some mental institutions to release patients onto the street, this added to the problem as those who may not be taking their medication act unruly along with those who are taking their "medication"(e.g. crack.) I don't drink booze, do drugs, smoke, or gamble, but when some other guy leaves big puddles on the floor from spashing himself for 20 minutes in the rest room, I get the dirty look just because I have no permanent address. I'm sure there's some similar thing going on with some of the WiFi squatters.

I'm not up on election laws. Can people without a permanent address vote? If not, then they'll become a scape gpat since politicians won't incur much cost(they're not gonna' vote for me anyway.)

Complex issue. Unfortunately the "solutions" will likely have large negative side-effects.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2013   #28
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PeaB4YouGo View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PeaB4YouGo View Post
I had a neighbor who noticed for weeks about a guy who parked in front of her bldg., day after day, to the point where she called the cops. They couldn't do much about someone parking legally on the street, but they promised to keep a look out while on patrol. After a couple days, they spotted him and questioned him. The cops told her that he was tapping the wi-fi of someone who hadn't secured their signal, and there was little they could do other than to warn him that he was spooking the residents.

So, she called me a couple of days later and asked me to come by to help her set up her new router. When the time came to set up the wi-fi section, I asked her what kind of passkey she wanted, she (inevitably) said she'd never had to set that up with her old router. Oddly enough, after setting this all up, and getting her laptop configured to connect to her new router, the guy stopped showing up, and several of her neighbors began to ask if they could use her wi-fi because they'd recently lost their connections.

Your police are either lazy or ignorant. Unauthorized internet access is a Federal violation. Loitering is also illegal in most jurisdictions.
First, I'm not the legal expert or anything, but it is implied that if you haven't secured your wi-fi, you've authorized anyone who can receive the signal to use it as they may. The law may not look at it that way, but it should. It's like turning the volume up on your speaker phone and getting pissed when people eavesdrop on your conversation. Secondly, he was parked legally and sitting in his car. That's not loitering. At least, not in most towns/cities. I've sat in the car waiting for the wifey for more than an hour while she "shopped" and that's not "loitering", that's "loving patience". Just my opinion...
You are comparing apples and kumquats. Waiting for your wife is not considered loitering in most cases. Hanging round somewhere to commit a crime is. Read more here.

What should be law and what is law are two different things. Also, with your logic, accidentally leaving your car unlocked with the keys in the ignition gives someone the right to just take the car.

Several references here on stealing internet access. It's a somewhat gray area and enforcement is based on the seriousness of the situation. The fact the guy admitted what he was doing (and it wouldn't have been hard to prove it anyway unless he was smart enough to erase his tracks) should have made prosecution and conviction easy (unless he was doing illegal downloading, etc., he would probably get off with a slap on the wrist and a warning).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2013   #29
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

It's very simple man. Deny any access to wall sockets. Battery technology will ensure usage won't go beyond a few hours.

On a tangent, some time ago a guy that said he was using 4 different free wifi (connecting from 4 different adapters mounted on DIY longish-range antennas and using a software from the developers of Connectify) and was boasting about how fast his torrenting/FTP download was going.

Quote:
First, I'm not the legal expert or anything, but it is implied that if you haven't secured your wi-fi, you've authorized anyone who can receive the signal to use it as they may.
As a general rule of thumb, unless someone gave you explicit permission to use something, you are stealing it as far as law is concerned ("i was going to bring it back" is a common justification you can hear from low-life thieves, but they are jailed if caught).

Most developed countries do have some kind of law about this stuff, the point is that cops are rarely smart enough to actually understand it. I mean, most can't tell the difference between wardriving (mapping the wifi hotspots in an area, legal) from guys cracking and stealing wifi bandwith (not legal duh!).

The same goes for cellphone/GPS/Radio jamming. It's illegal but it's hard to get caught doing it as no police force has ever encountered the issue on any real scale so they are totally oblivious to what could be the cause and unprepared to track you down (which is actually a piece of cake if you have the right equipment).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2013   #30
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Back to the Coffee Shop.
Turn the Wifi off.
If the coffee, food and service doesn't give a good customer base the Coffee Shop has more problems than Wifi.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Coffee shops look to oust 'laptop hobos'




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