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Windows 7: Sony and Panasonic team up to create 300GB discs of the future

04 Aug 2013   #11
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
If they are "burn once" discs (ROM) they have a big advantage over Flash and HDDs, malware can't install itself to the media (after they have been burned).
Linux does not allow that to happen anyway. Which is why I use linux distros on my USB PC recovery "toolkit" I made with YUMI.

Besides, there are USB drives that can be write-protected with the flip of a switch like the bulk of SD cards, and that technology isn't going to disappear while they are developing this new optical standard.
Linux allows things to run with the User's Privilege Level.
I have received patches for RPE and RCE (not as many as for Windows though).

I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).
I have seen Internet forum comments stating that say they exist.

I don't use SD cards, but you are right (my friend has a couple lying around).

Why don't external HDDs come with "Write Protection" switches?

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
That will work only on a select few PCs (the ones with the reader, that will be a minority for a loong while, given how even old stuff is still good enough today). Unless you get an external reader.
That is true enough.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
The point was that there are better ways than another new optical drive standard to move data without an internet connection. (namely flash-based storage devices)

I mean, the same situation did not make Blu Ray disks particularly appealing, and adding a new standard will only make it worse.
As it's a new technology all over again, and you cannot simply assume that everyone has a 300GB optical disk reader at home (unless you are Microsoft) the same way you can safely assume that everyone will be able to read a DVD (and around 40-50% are able to read a Blu-Ray).
Obviously the limiting factor will be cost.

Blu-ray discs are expensive.
Cheap Blu-ray discs are 6x the cost of expensive DVD discs (at my supplier).

The drives aren't much better (at least they are backwards compatible).
Hi there.

What actually made Blu Ray essentially unsellable was the STUPID DRM and encryption keys - that made the playing of Blu Ray discs a total lottery - even on dedicated consumer players. The whole idea of buying a film and allowing you to use it on ANY device of your choice even though the cost of the movies has come down to the same price as standard DVD's - which any sensible player can "Upscale" decently anyway.

People were also bitten by the incredibly stupid REGIONAL encoding on standard DVD's --fortunately easily breakable. People travel a lot and it was incredibly stupid when laptops used to have HARDWARE locks to only allow DVD's of a certain region to be played.

Any new optical standard will probably STILL incorporate this total type of BOVINE protection in it -- so WISELY consumers will stay away big time and get their 4K movies from other sources.

In any case we'll shortly be seeing the first AFFORDABLE CONSUMER grade PB HDD disks appear by then. (1PB = 1000 X 1TB) !! so what need for a mere TINY capacity 300GB optical disk. !!

Cheers
jimbo


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
04 Aug 2013   #12
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Linux allows things to run with the User's Privilege Level.
I have received patches for RPE and RCE (not as many as for Windows though).
True, but usually stuff that kills windows (the main job for the USB toolkits) doesn't run at all on Linux.

Quote:
I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).
This place sells them. And no offense, but I thought a brand called Kanguru would have some recognition down there in AU. (just kidding, it's a US-based company)

This forum gives others.

But yeah, they aren't prevalent. It's a feature with a limited appeal for the average user.

Quote:
Why don't external HDDs come with "Write Protection" switches?
I assume they thought the feature wasn't so interesting for the average user. Write-protected USB drives are rare enough for this reason I think.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Aug 2013   #13
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Linux allows things to run with the User's Privilege Level.
I have received patches for RPE and RCE (not as many as for Windows though).
True, but usually stuff that kills windows (the main job for the USB toolkits) doesn't run at all on Linux.

Quote:
I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).
This place sells them. And no offense, but I thought a brand called Kanguru would have some recognition down there in AU. (just kidding, it's a US-based company)

This forum gives others.

But yeah, they aren't prevalent. It's a feature with a limited appeal for the average user.

Quote:
Why don't external HDDs come with "Write Protection" switches?
I assume they thought the feature wasn't so interesting for the average user. Write-protected USB drives are rare enough for this reason I think.

Hi there
what's wrong with setting the files as READ ONLY or requiring a password to access them.
In any case write protected hardware switches are a PAIN as sometimes they break or Jam -- so another device destined for the tip or the bin.

On a network directories are protected as a matter of course - and if you are admin you can make mistakes too -- as SU in Linux you can delete the whole system if you want and the OS won't stop you either.

Decent backup should avoid disasters - much better than relying on "Read only" switches in the hardware.

Incidentally that's one of the new features in the ENTERPRISE version of W8.1 -- admins can set various protection levels on external USB devices from "No device" will function to full read write and loads of options in between. This IMO as a good feature - should prevent viruses being transmitted by users bringing from home Rogue USB sticks - especially with pirated software / movies on them.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

04 Aug 2013   #14
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
True, but usually stuff that kills windows (the main job for the USB toolkits) doesn't run at all on Linux.
Agreed.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote:
I have never seen a USB stick with that obvious feature (maybe they don't sell them in Australia).
This place sells them. And no offense, but I thought a brand called Kanguru would have some recognition down there in AU. (just kidding, it's a US-based company)

This forum gives others.
I don't buy stuff online.

Thanks for those links though.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
But yeah, they aren't prevalent. It's a feature with a limited appeal for the average user.
Only because nobody has told (or demonstrated to) them what the benefits actually are.

I would have thought that drives with "Write Protection" would be of interest to businesses.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
what's wrong with setting the files as READ ONLY or requiring a password to access them.
Windows 7 totally ignores the "Read-only" attribute.
It is one of the few big gripes I have with W7.

I'm not aware of how you can natively add passwords to files/folders in W7 (without using encryption).
I know that you can do it using 3rd party software (e.g. archive managers).

Any malware that can gain System Privileges can ignore those software protection settings including Local Policies.

It can't ignore physical "Write Protection" options.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2013   #15
cold iron

XP
 
 

I would like this for storing pictures. I can't tell you how many photos I have lost with HD crashes and never to be seen again shots. Anything electrical is going to fail at some time, even chips.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2013   #16
Wrend

Windows 7 Professional SP1 64bit, Debian GNU/Linux 64bit (virtual machine on a RAM drive)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
If they are "burn once" discs (ROM) they have a big advantage over Flash and HDDs, malware can't install itself to the media (after they have been burned).

I could carry backup images of all of my clean VMs, several Linux distros and numerous repair tools on a single disc.

The problems I see are burn time and access time.
It takes ages to transfer 300 GB off of my USB2.0 external HDDs (even USB3.0 isn't particularly speedy).
Something else going on there then, at least in regards to USB 3.0. My external HDD is nearly just as fast as my internal SATA3 HDD. Being a HDD is the limiting factor. Speeds are about 100MB/s.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2013   #17
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by cold iron View Post
I would like this for storing pictures. I can't tell you how many photos I have lost with HD crashes and never to be seen again shots. Anything electrical is going to fail at some time, even chips.
Optical drives have a limited lifespan too. Or if not them, their player does.

While you wait, what about having multiple backups? It's unlikely that two (or more) drives will fail at the same time.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 Aug 2013   #18
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
Wildly Variable Speeds

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
Something else going on there then, at least in regards to USB 3.0. My external HDD is nearly just as fast as my internal SATA3 HDD. Being a HDD is the limiting factor. Speeds are about 100MB/s.
Sometimes I can transfer files to my USB3 HDD at a sustained 90 MB/s.

Other times it can only manage USB2 speeds (~25 MB/s).
There doesn't seem to be any "rhyme or reason" to its behaviour.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Aug 2013   #19
Wenda

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 32-bit; Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (VM).
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by cold iron View Post
I would like this for storing pictures. I can't tell you how many photos I have lost with HD crashes and never to be seen again shots. Anything electrical is going to fail at some time, even chips.
Optical drives have a limited lifespan too. Or if not them, their player does.

While you wait, what about having multiple backups? It's unlikely that two (or more) drives will fail at the same time.

A while back, while having a serious clear-out, I decided to go through a box of CD-DOMs and a few boxes of 3.5" floppies I have had since whenever. Some of this stuff dates back to the early 1990s.

I was surprised (not really) to find that, despite being stored correctly, several of the CD-ROMs and a large number of the floppies were completely unusable. In the case of the CD-ROMs, some of the damage was clearly visible as a degradation of the disc's layers. Others appeared undamaged, but could not be read.

Strangely enough, my tape-based software for the C64 is still mostly all usable...


Wenda.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Aug 2013   #20
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
Strangely enough, my tape-based software for the C64 is still mostly all usable...
"An elegant storage medium for a more civilized age." (apologies to Obi-Wan Kenobi).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Sony and Panasonic team up to create 300GB discs of the future




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