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Windows 7: Windows XP No-Support Deadline Has Arrived -- Ignore At Your Peril


10 Apr 2014   #21

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there.

The several hundred thousand "Ma and Pa Kettle" types won't be on the Internet at any one time -- if you are committing Fraud on any "sensible" scale you want to do it quickly -- In and out and get away with a reasonable "profit" before anybody catches you.

A few dollars here and there might be interesting if you are say working in a Bank and can process 100,000's of transactions in a short time but it's just not worth the effort to "the average criminal".

Most businesses whether on XP or not usually have fairly restrictive Internet Access policies anyway -- you have to be fairly high up or have a reasonably responsible position before you get "Un-controlled" Internet access - and if you are one of these types you are likely to get newer gear before anybody else in the organisation.

While people like Dutch and UK Gov'ts are paying for continued XP support -- Hope the taxpayers of those countries remember that at their Next elections - why this sort of money is being spent when there was 6 YEARS WARNING !! that XP would be discontinued I still think the threat is more imagined than real - especially as a lot of the old "Ma and Pa Kettle's" will never have installed any AV software in the first place.

Surf sensibly, don't download anything unless you know EXACTLY what you are looking for-- a lot of downloads are hidden with extra green arrows for downloading anything except the software you want, uncheck any toolbars etc and NEVER EVER open any email attachments unless you know EXACTLY who it comes from -- and a few sites now masquerade as "official one's" such as UK HRMC Tax revenue service - don't click on any links on those emails either.

99.9999% of people will get de-frauded NOT because of computer Viruses but simply by falling foul to Internet activities and bad computer practices which no AV software can prevent.

(I'm in no way suggesting that you shouldn't protect your machine BTW -- that's not the point of this post !!).

Cheers
jimbo
Fraud isn't the issue. The issue is using security holes to get into people's computer's where viruses can be planted to capture login passwords and account numbers which can then be used to drain bank account balances, run up fraudulent charges, etc. As long as an unprotected machine is connected to the internet, the bad guys can get in no matter how carefully the victim surfs. Just opening up a browser—any browser—on an unprotected machine can allow a virus to be planted on the machine. In fact, it's not really necessary to even open a browser for an unprotected machine to be exposed to viruses, key loggers, etc. (for example, M$ can put updates or notifications of updates on a machine without a browser being opened; programs can check for updates and even download and install them without a browser being opened). And not all hackers are big time crooks looking for big scores. Same as you have bank robbers who go for the big hauls and small time punks who knock over convenience stores that keep no more than $50 cash on hand at any one time, there are some cyber crooks that go only after the big hauls and others that go for whatever amount they can easily get, no matter how paltry.

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10 Apr 2014   #22

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 32-bit; Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (VM).
 
 

My XP isn't going anywhere at all.

At worst, it will remain in V-Box along with some of my other older OSes.

The older ones are never net-enabled, although I've been online once or twice using NT4.

Yes, I know what I'm doing, and no, I'm not worried about 'threats'.


Wenda.

EDIT: Sitting here pondering the similarities between this and the Y2K furphy.


Attached Thumbnails
Windows XP No-Support Deadline Has Arrived -- Ignore At Your Peril-my-vm.jpg  
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10 Apr 2014   #23
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
<snip> As long as an unprotected machine is connected to the internet, the bad guys can get in no matter how carefully the victim surfs. Just opening up a browser—any browser—on an unprotected machine can allow a virus to be planted on the machine. In fact, it's not really necessary to even open a browser for an unprotected machine to be exposed to viruses, key loggers, etc.
What do you see as an "unprotected machine"? I've seen many using Windows Vista, 7, 8, and now 8.1...
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11 Apr 2014   #24

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Jacee View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
<snip> As long as an unprotected machine is connected to the internet, the bad guys can get in no matter how carefully the victim surfs. Just opening up a browser—any browser—on an unprotected machine can allow a virus to be planted on the machine. In fact, it's not really necessary to even open a browser for an unprotected machine to be exposed to viruses, key loggers, etc.
What do you see as an "unprotected machine"? I've seen many using Windows Vista, 7, 8, and now 8.1...
Seriously? Any machine not receiving M$ security updates and/or not running AVs, etc. is unprotected. XP will be receiving no more security updates so any machine running XP will be unprotected. While other OSes can also be unprotected, the topic of this thread is XP.
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11 Apr 2014   #25

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Pro 64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Jacee View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
<snip> As long as an unprotected machine is connected to the internet, the bad guys can get in no matter how carefully the victim surfs. Just opening up a browser—any browser—on an unprotected machine can allow a virus to be planted on the machine. In fact, it's not really necessary to even open a browser for an unprotected machine to be exposed to viruses, key loggers, etc.
What do you see as an "unprotected machine"? I've seen many using Windows Vista, 7, 8, and now 8.1...
Seriously? Any machine not receiving M$ security updates and/or not running AVs, etc. is unprotected. XP will be receiving no more security updates so any machine running XP will be unprotected. While other OSes can also be unprotected, the topic of this thread is XP.
Lighten up, it was a valid question from a security expert.
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11 Apr 2014   #26

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Hi there
Like all things "caveat Emptor" -- I still believe that a lot of people won't have any problem at all using XP for a while yet if they operate their devices safely and surf wisely.

The REDICULOUS thing is that some BANKING applications refuse for example to allow me to login to online banking because it doesn't recognize OPERA or KONQUEROR as valid browsers from a LINUX system -- in EVERY WAY ZILLIONS of percent more secure than XP or even Windows 8.1 - so you can see sometimes what I feel about "So called security experts". To access online Banking I have to fire up a Windows VM !!!!!! -- and perhaps Banks could push people off XP by also blocking online banking for XP systems.

The strange thing is that this SAME BANK has mobile phone apps for Android that work from PUBLIC Wi-Fi systems !!!!-- infinitely more "hackable" than a secure decent desktop Linux.

Using a public Wi-Fi system exposes your system far more than almost anything else -- especially since typical data is transmitted un-encrypted until it reaches the remote login screens - so anybody with a data scope type of device can get your passwords in plaintext. !!

Still I'm sure we all have particular feelings about the Banks after the recent debacle in most of the developed world's financial markets in recent years.

(BTW the XP in ATM's is Embedded XP -- a different OS to the desktop model).


Cheers
jimbo
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11 Apr 2014   #27

None
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by derekimo View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Jacee View Post
What do you see as an "unprotected machine"? I've seen many using Windows Vista, 7, 8, and now 8.1...
Seriously? Any machine not receiving M$ security updates and/or not running AVs, etc. is unprotected. XP will be receiving no more security updates so any machine running XP will be unprotected. While other OSes can also be unprotected, the topic of this thread is XP.
Lighten up, it was a valid question from a security expert.
No chance. The Fitz simply has no "lighten-up" mode.
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11 Apr 2014   #28

Windows 7 Professional x64 Sp1
 
 

Sorry, But I have to agree with the Fitz on this one.

The thread is about xp, its kind of a silly question to ask what they meant about what machine they see as unprotected. They are referring to specifically how xp stops getting updates from Microsoft, no amount of security software will save you. Antiviruses cannot stop vulnerabilities in the software they are protecting. Security software cannot patch holes in the Operating system. Using those vulnerabilities malware can hide itself from the anti-malware itself and never be discovered.

You can say XP is safe to use all you want, but the reality is your xp machine can become part of a botnet and you would never know. Which I believe is going to be the main theme when these xp users still have not left. They will become one large botnet and hackers will use these PC's for spamming email and hacking other websites/etc. The most common malware no longer shows itself or lets its presence be known. This is 2014, not 2006. Malware hides itself on purpose, and tries to not slow a computer down so it will not be suspected of infection. Botnets are very tricky and use whatever means necessary to hide themselves.

It's dangerous to think that Xp can be safe once support ends, which it has. Opening a web browser can get you infected the second you open it, depending on what your homepage is. But the reality is with windows xp, just having it connected to the internet, is a risk. Even if you never use the web browser. The windows xp firewall or hardware firewall from your router is not going to save you.

If you think you are smart enough to avoid infection, think again.
It's a lot different when your Operating system is no longer getting patches.

If its off the internet, then yes its relatively safe.


I think their was just some miscommunication on what was said and meant. And maybe just a little to much fired up.
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11 Apr 2014   #29

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Hi there
Yet again people haven't understood --NOT ALL MACHINES need to be connected to the Internet - so the idea of a Virus or a Botnet just doesn't apply.

Keep the machine isolated --then it's quite SAFE !!! and sometimes is more fit for purpose than modern machines riddled with crap and trial ware when they come out of the store.

As in all things -- use the appropriate tool for the job -- just ensure its used correctly and within known limits --and don't just willy nilly upgrade because some stupid security chief thinks you ought to. Upgrade when YOU want to not when Ms tells you to.

I've never yet heard of a botnet being transmitted by an ISOLATED Machine not on a network or connected to the internet.

There are some XP machines out their controlling various factory processes -- the hardware has life cycles of may be 50 years or more -- so keeping the old XP machine running specialized taks makes sense -- upgrading the hardware might cost several HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS !! - if you could even find it.

A lot of this type of kit in any case isn't usually "upgradeable" -- often the original manufacturer has long since gone out of business or stopped making the relevant hardware - so no point in getting new computers which won't support the kit.

Cheers
jimbo
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11 Apr 2014   #30

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

I don't disagree with you, jimbo; what you said is absolutely correct. One very acceptable way to protect a machine from malware is to completely isolate it from the internet and make sure no nasties can piggyback in on things like USB flash drives, etc. The machines being discussed here as being at risk are ones that are being used by individuals and businesses that are NOT being isolated from the internet.
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 Windows XP No-Support Deadline Has Arrived -- Ignore At Your Peril




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