Normal service is resumed as Windows 7's growth once again.....

Bruce SX said:

Since I am not a fan of touchscreen devices my tendency is to stick with my decision to install win7 on my new system. However, if win8/8.1 can perform nearly as nicely as win7 is touted, then perhaps my preferences will be adjusted.

But this involves a lot of work to install a suitable Start menu, change all the defaults from the apps (I'd uninstall them), and then you'll still find the need to go looking for important functions hidden in the suppressed Metro settings.

This is why after over a dozen installs by the time its all adjusted I am so done with it I dont' even return. I also will no longer adjust it for friends because of the endless need for follow up. Not one of them has said there is any advantage and most end up wanting to return to 7.

As Si says, this is designed to break us of the desktop even after MS spent 20 years building the desktop to perfection in Win7 to where it drives the world economy. I believe it will continue to do so because they will not be able to kill it in favor of subscription, cloud and social media interface - and I root User folders in the cloud for sync'ing purposes.

SIW2 said:

Win 8 is about getting users into online subscription services. That is what the metro stuff is for. Boiling frogs.

Could you or anyone else explain me why all this complaint about Windows Store apps and their existence? Why to complain about an existing additional feature you don't have to ever see or use?

It's like complaining about additional rear USB ports in a desktop PC. "That AcerDellHP Tower-XXL PC sucks because it has additional USB ports in the back of the case although I do not want them and never use them. It really sucks".

Using a local account and booting to the desktop, you do not have to use any more cloud or online services you use in Windows 7. That really is a fact, as opposite to quite a lot what has been said in this and other similar threads.

gregrocker said:

But this involves a lot of work to install a suitable Start menu, change all the defaults from the Crapps (I'd uninstall them), and then you'll still find the need to go looking for important functions hidden in the suppressed Metro settings.

A lot of work? Downloading and installing your favorite Start Menu replacement? Excluding setting Lock and Start screen backgrounds and creating new users, what else is hidden "in the suppressed Metro settings"?

Just for my own interest (I like the 8 Start Menu and don't use any replacements), I just timed the process needed. Googled "Windows 8.1 Start Menu replacement", first hit was Don't wait for Windows 9: How to get a Start Menu, windowed Metro apps today | PCWorld, which mentioned Classic Shell quite in the beginning of the article. Googled Classic Shell. I had found, downloaded and installed it in less than two minutes. This two minutes is a one time operation which, if I had kept the kept the Classic Shell, I would not have to repeat this anymore in the future.

Quite funny is that a great number of those complaining about Windows 8 Start Menu do in fact not use the default Windows Start Menu in Windows 7 but have instead replaced it with Classic Shell or something similar. So nothing new there, these users installed it voluntarily in Windows 7 and complain when they have to install it in Windows 8.

gregrocker said:

This is why after over a dozen installs by the time its all adjusted I am so done with it I dont' even return. I also will no longer adjust it for friends because of the endless need for follow up. Not one of them has said there is any advantage and most end up wanting to return to 7.

I have no proof of this, I only have a theory; I honestly believe this has quite a lot to do with the attitude Windows 8 is shown and presented to new users. I have upgraded quite a many computers both privately for my friends and neighbors and at work to Windows 8 and 8.1, the feedback I get is almost totally positive, the Eight newbies satisfied and happy. Especially lately when a great number of users have not only upgraded from XP to 8 due end of support but also upgraded the hardware, too, a common reaction I get has been "Oh I thought it would be difficult but this is really nice".

gregrocker said:

As Si says, this is designed to break us of the desktop even after MS spent 20 years building the desktop to perfection in Win7 to where it drives the world economy.

Every now and then I read something here that really surprises me. This statement is one of those, especially coming from a geek I really respect.

Install a Start Menu replacement and set your PC to boot to desktop. It's there, exactly as it was in Vista or Seven (apart of the really enhanced File Explorer). How can Microsoft's gesture to add a setting which makes it possible to totally bypass Start Screen and boot directly to Desktop and use it as you use Windows 7 be seen as a try to "break us of the desktop"?

I have tried to learn to understand this but it seems to be an impossible task, I still do not understand: Windows 8 sucks because of the missing Start Menu which takes a minute or two to install, and because of the Start Screen and Windows Store Apps, all of which a user will never see if he does not want to.

Kari

I will say using a local account did take quite a bit of pain out of the transition,
Start 8 took the rest of the pain out
So yea 8.1 is not all that bad,
Flash being built into ie11 I'm not crazy about but flash can be disabled by normal means so it's a non issue,
I do miss aero glass which might be the next tweak

I'd say the weirdest 2 issues I first saw in metro,
1) Closing ie11 did but very weird probably applies to all apps
2) Search for Paint from the top right search all/ did not find paint
Finally did though but it was weird,
Cheers.

ThrashZone said:

Search for Paint from the top right search all/ did not find paint.

Something wrong in your system:

Arelem said:

I should not have to install a start menu replacement. This is Windows, not Linux. I'm expecting a completely operational, usable OS the moment its installed, not after I go get a bunch of add-ons.

You don't have to install anything. Windows 8 has a Start Menu. It's then a totally different thing if you want to replace it.

Do I understand you correctly that in Windows 7 you did not have to install any additional tools, that straight out of the box it had everything you needed? You installed no Flash player (included by default IE11 in Windows 8.1), no PDF reader (built-in in Windows 8.1), you did not install any AV protection (built-in in Windows 8.1), nothing?

I'm thinking again.
If Microsoft put the good things Kari has pointed out in Windows 8x and the good thing we know are in Windows 7 together in Windows 9 most all would be very happy.

SIW2 said:

Win 8 is about getting users into online subscription services. That is what the metro stuff is for. Boiling frogs.

I wonder how many people will get the boiling frogs reference.

Very few.

Humans fall for it all the time. It has been going on forever.

Like this famous quote:

“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.”

Lady F
I wonder how many people will get the boiling frogs reference.

May have some relevance to Schrödinger's cat too.

Kari said:

gregrocker said:

But this involves a lot of work to install a suitable Start menu, change all the defaults from the Crapps (I'd uninstall them), and then you'll still find the need to go looking for important functions hidden in the suppressed Metro settings.

A lot of work? Downloading and installing your favorite Start Menu replacement? Excluding setting Lock and Start screen backgrounds and creating new users, what else is hidden "in the suppressed Metro settings"?

Just for my own interest (I like the 8 Start Menu and don't use any replacements), I just timed the process needed. Googled "Windows 8.1 Start Menu replacement", first hit was Don't wait for Windows 9: How to get a Start Menu, windowed Metro apps today | PCWorld, which mentioned Classic Shell quite in the beginning of the article. Googled Classic Shell. I had found, downloaded and installed it in less than two minutes. This two minutes is a one time operation which, if I had kept the kept the Classic Shell, I would not have to repeat this anymore in the future.

Once you have a suitable Start Menu it still opens cumbersome and annoying Apps for photos, videos, reader and others. Each of these must be uninstalled and/or changed in Default Programs in Control Panel to reasonable apps that don't grab the whole screen and refuse to close without a map. This is more work than most consumers want to bother with.

Kari said:

Quite funny is that a great number of those complaining about Windows 8 Start Menu do in fact not use the default Windows Start Menu in Windows 7 but have instead replaced it with Classic Shell or something similar. So nothing new there, these users installed it voluntarily in Windows 7 and complain when they have to install it in Windows 8.

I have never seen, heard of or read about anyone replacing the Win7 Start menu. It is perfect. In fact I was really only happy when there was a Windows 7 Start Menu for Windows 8 but I'm not sure if Tuify built one yet for 8.1.

Kari said:

gregrocker said:

As Si says, this is designed to break us of the desktop even after MS spent 20 years building the desktop to perfection in Win7 to where it drives the world economy.

Every now and then I read something here that really surprises me. This statement is one of those, especially coming from a geek I really respect.

Install a Start Menu replacement and set your PC to boot to desktop. It's there, exactly as it was in Vista or Seven (apart of the really enhanced File Explorer). How can Microsoft's gesture to add a setting which makes it possible to totally bypass Start Screen and boot directly to Desktop and use it as you use Windows 7 be seen as a try to "break us of the desktop"?

I have tried to learn to understand this but it seems to be an impossible task, I still do not understand: Windows 8 sucks because of the missing Start Menu which takes a minute or two to install, and because of the Start Screen and Windows Store Apps, all of which a user will never see if he does not want to.

Kari

Kari I don't know how you've missed it since it was revealed years ago by our esteemed professor SIW2, who lives inside the OS, regularly emerging to reveal really important stuff including most of the best Win7 workarounds and fixes that are now Best Practices.

He was the first here to blow the whistle on how MS is trying to kill off the desktop to drive consumers into a Social Media interface (badly) aping Ipad, which will then vend apps and eventually the OS by subscription via the cloud (paywall). To do this we needed to be crAptured into Apps and eventually weaned off the desktop completely. This became obvious to me when the Surface Pro was released and I was given a copy at MVP Summit but could not find the desktop because it was left off the Metro screen. I eventually by accident found it hiding behind the Control Panel.


Please do not paint skeptics as haters. I really couldn't care less about Windows 8 except that I am sad that it presumes to replace Windows 7 which I believe is the best OS ever and one of the greatest achievements in tech. To see it treated as an unwanted stepson with retail copies hidden and no SP2 is appalling. But since most of the world loves Windows 7 our mission is clear here at the home of Windows 7.