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Windows 7: Microsoft exec admits new reality: Market share no longer 90%, it's 14

17 Jul 2014   #41
JerometheGiraff

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote:
Professional graphics work such as 3D rendering will also absolutely require professional-grade video cards like the Nvidia Quadro series that cost upwards of several grand a card, their kind of specialized workloads are simply too much for integrated graphics solutions (let alone consumer-grade discrete video cards) to handle.
Not Quite, that arena is changing. Quadro cards are not all that they are made out to be.


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18 Jul 2014   #42
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Boozad View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Hi there.

I think a lot of the 100% Desktop only people probably don't understand how much MOBILE computing is out there already
Or they just don't care. I know I don't.

Are you getting royalties for mentioning the Surface pro or something?

Hi there

I'm surprised that you admit to "Just not caring" what is going on in an industry you are either working in or have some knowledge about. That's probably the same attitude in a lot of businesses who fail to make it when new technology comes along - not just because of the new technology itself but the whole process of doing business is likely to be changed. For example some of the Old Film processing labs you used to see in high streets had to adjust to people using digital film and smart phones -- now you can make nice prints -- but even here the market is small so you have to offer a specialized service to survive.

Even if you DONT LIKE new technology you should if you are working in an industry embracing it at least get to grips with it and realize that there are many situations where whatever your actual personal preference it will get used.

Finally I'm not getting anything for pushing the surface 3 pro -- currently there isn't any competition for that kind of device -- but I'm open to any suitable competing product if it's a) superior and b) cheaper - preferably both. I'm sure Lenovo will come up with something soon anyway.

As an Engineer I'm always in favour of using THE BEST TOOL for the job -- I wouldn't use a Steam Hammer to crack a nut with. There are obviously situations where rugged equipment / extreme discrete powerful graphic cards / other "fixed equipment / peripheral types" etc are needed and the type of work is totally NOT suited to mobile devices -- my point is that Mobile devices are HERE to stay and will be increasingly used in businesses - maybe for applications that we haven't even thought of yet - nothing in this post says that Desktops will disappear but they WILL become increasingly a niche market.

Cheers
jimbo
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19 Jul 2014   #43
eatup

Windows 7 Home Premium 32 Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by hirobo2 View Post
Inferior cooling? Theyre already going to release CPUs that won't need a fan on top of it to keep it cool soon... Just wait a few more years, integrated graphics will become so much more powerful and run much cooler that you won't realize notice a benefit in discreet graphics. That'll be the day gamers run Unreal Engine VI on their large screen monitor powered by a tiny tablet!
Fanless CPUs have been around for a long time, largely with CPUs like Intel Atom and ARM geared towards power and temperature efficient mobile applications. However, these mobile CPUs have always sacrificed performance and power to achieve the power (as in electrical) and temperature requirements that need to be met.

Until we move to a fundamentally different idea of crunching numbers, CPUs (and GPUs) will produce more heat as they try to go faster. Intel hit this wall with their Pentium 4s back in the day and they finally got around it by introducing multi-core CPUs rather than trying to make a single core extremely powerful.

With regards to integrated graphics, one of the biggest bottlenecks holding them back is slow RAM. Part of why discrete video cards are so much faster than integrated solutions is because they have their own store of RAM (GDDR RAM); integrated graphics need to borrow system RAM (DDR RAM) which is considerably slower than the GDDR RAM used in video cards which in turn slows down the entire graphics subsystem of a computer.

Professional graphics work such as 3D rendering will also absolutely require professional-grade video cards like the Nvidia Quadro series that cost upwards of several grand a card, their kind of specialized workloads are simply too much for integrated graphics solutions (let alone consumer-grade discrete video cards) to handle.
Atom and ARM? How about a full-fledge fanless Broadwell CPU (next gen after Haswell)? How about the gen after that? These won't be the Atoms that are actually based on rebranded netbook CPUs. These will be extra low-voltage Broadwells and Skylakes, almost the same architecture (hench the same branding/naming) as you'd find on their desktop counterparts, but fanless!

Heck, I predict 12 years from now, you'll dock your smart phone to a large screen monitor and keyboard, and it'll be more powerful than the most powerful desktops we have today!

Remember folks, desktop cpus stopped obeying that law where the power doubles every couple of years. They may not get more powerful, but that doesn't mean smaller devices like tablets and smart phones can't make quantum leaps to catchup to their desktop counterparts!
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19 Jul 2014   #44
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by hirobo2 View Post
...Heck, I predict 12 years from now, you'll dock your smart phone to a large screen monitor and keyboard, and it'll be more powerful than the most powerful desktops we have today!
I'm not holding my breath. It'll happen someday but not in my lifetime.
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20 Jul 2014   #45
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by hirobo2 View Post
...Heck, I predict 12 years from now, you'll dock your smart phone to a large screen monitor and keyboard, and it'll be more powerful than the most powerful desktops we have today!
I'm not holding my breath. It'll happen someday but not in my lifetime.
Hi there

I can ALREADY connect my Samsung S5 mobile phone to a large external monitor via HDMI yielding full HD resolution 1080p (1920 X 1080) which is a lot better than the common 768 X 1366 resolution seen on most laptops. I can also connect this WIRELESSLY too for more convenient connections. With a Blue tooth keyboard I've got access easily to the Android OS including the apps on the phone - the QUAD processor is already more powerful than some of the older Celerons / atom processors seen in laptops. I believe the NEXT generation of phones will use 8-WAY processors - they'll be like HARDWARE looking for applications that need that type of processing.

Playing a Blu Ray quality movie stored on a micro sdHC card on the phone (including the sound) and using a large TV as the external display gives me at least as good a quality that I'd get from the laptop . Browsing the internet too is easily done.

Currently the phone system doesn't have a mouse - but that's only a question of someone writing an interface.

I think your "10 years" might be far too pessimistic.

Using the phone like this still generates quite a lot of heat - but that problem will surely be overcome as devices use newer materials and "quantum" physics.

(BTW using things like email, Kingsoft Office (Goodish Ms Office clone - especially for simpler EXCEL functions) and some Internet browsing with the phone connected to a Hotel LCD TV and a blue tooth keyboard is often more convenient than getting out a laptop - also for watching movies. The lack of a Mouse though does prevent some applications from being used like a "Normal PC" - but give it time !!).

These also work brilliantly too for wifi between phone and TV.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/12126...13=80&ff14=108

Cheers
jimbo
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20 Jul 2014   #46
Boozad

W7 Pro x64 SP1 | W10 Pro IP x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 VM | Linux Mint VM
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I'm surprised that you admit to "Just not caring" what is going on in an industry you are either working in or have some knowledge about.
Why are you surprised? I have no interest in a Surface Pro that costs upwards of £2,000, I do all of my computing at home and my computing at work is done on one of nearly 1,000 desktops that are geared up for the work we do.

I will never own a Surface Pro, and a Srface Pro will probably never be able to replace my upgradeable desktop. Nor would I want it to. Any advancement on desktop components I'm all ears about, and there will plent to come.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jul 2014   #47
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Boozad View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I'm surprised that you admit to "Just not caring" what is going on in an industry you are either working in or have some knowledge about.
Why are you surprised? I have no interest in a Surface Pro that costs upwards of £2,000, I do all of my computing at home and my computing at work is done on one of nearly 1,000 desktops that are geared up for the work we do.

I will never own a Surface Pro, and a Srface Pro will probably never be able to replace my upgradeable desktop. Nor would I want it to. Any advancement on desktop components I'm all ears about, and there will plent to come.

Hi there

No further comment Is really is needed on this -- if businesses never looked at new equipment and technology then we'd still be in the stone age -- Look at a lot of UK infrastructure -- railways just coming out of Victorian era -- Signalling faults every day on Tubes / trains due to equipment built almost before ist world war, power stations falling to pieces and having to get FRANCE (or even CHINA !!) to build new one's which might not be ready before the country runs "out of juice" and even the latest CROSS RAIL system which should have been built 50 years ago is being handed over to the Germans to run it.

The Spanish own one of the UK's biggest Banks (Santander), an Egyptian national owns the country's most celebrated store (Harrods) and the airports and ports are owned by a mixture of businesses from SPAIN. QUATAR and DUBAI.

The top pharmaceuticals are also going to the USA (SHIRE PHARMA) for example) and the main confectionary business (Cadbury's ) has long since been swallowed up by the US firm Kraft's.

Even the last Wind turbine plant in the UK in the Isle of wight was closed recently and now all the turbines are built in Germany (Siemens) or Denmark -- neither country has particularly cheap labour either.

Finally if you like Cars -- Landrover and Jaguar have been taken over by an INDIAN Firm (TATA) and even the Mini - that iconic car of the 60's and 70's has been swallowed up by the German company BMW.

Seems UK PLC is rapidly being sold in bits and pieces to the highest bidders -- just hope for all your sakes the assets don't all end up in what is known as "Vulture Funds".

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jul 2014   #48
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Boozad View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I'm surprised that you admit to "Just not caring" what is going on in an industry you are either working in or have some knowledge about.
Why are you surprised? I have no interest in a Surface Pro that costs upwards of £2,000, I do all of my computing at home and my computing at work is done on one of nearly 1,000 desktops that are geared up for the work we do.

I will never own a Surface Pro, and a Srface Pro will probably never be able to replace my upgradeable desktop. Nor would I want it to. Any advancement on desktop components I'm all ears about, and there will plent to come.

Hi there

No further comment Is really is needed on this -- if businesses never looked at new equipment and technology then we'd still be in the stone age -- Look at a lot of UK infrastructure -- railways just coming out of Victorian era -- Signalling faults every day on Tubes / trains due to equipment built almost before ist world war, power stations falling to pieces and having to get FRANCE (or even CHINA !!) to build new one's which might not be ready before the country runs "out of juice" and even the latest CROSS RAIL system which should have been built 50 years ago is being handed over to the Germans to run it.

The Spanish own one of the UK's biggest Banks (Santander), an Egyptian national owns the country's most celebrated store (Harrods) and the airports and ports are owned by a mixture of businesses from SPAIN. QUATAR and DUBAI.

The top pharmaceuticals are also going to the USA (SHIRE PHARMA) for example) and the main confectionary business (Cadbury's ) has long since been swallowed up by the US firm Kraft's.

Even the last Wind turbine plant in the UK in the Isle of wight was closed recently and now all the turbines are built in Germany (Siemens) or Denmark -- neither country has particularly cheap labour either.

Finally if you like Cars -- Landrover and Jaguar have been taken over by an INDIAN Firm (TATA) and even the Mini - that iconic car of the 60's and 70's has been swallowed up by the German company BMW.

Seems UK PLC is rapidly being sold in bits and pieces to the highest bidders -- just hope for all your sakes the assets don't all end up in what is known as "Vulture Funds".

Cheers
jimbo
Oh WOW! Going from one person not needing a high priced tablet to the demise of England? Fascinating (not necessarily in a good way)!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jul 2014   #49
Boozad

W7 Pro x64 SP1 | W10 Pro IP x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 VM | Linux Mint VM
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Boozad View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
I'm surprised that you admit to "Just not caring" what is going on in an industry you are either working in or have some knowledge about.
Why are you surprised? I have no interest in a Surface Pro that costs upwards of £2,000, I do all of my computing at home and my computing at work is done on one of nearly 1,000 desktops that are geared up for the work we do.

I will never own a Surface Pro, and a Srface Pro will probably never be able to replace my upgradeable desktop. Nor would I want it to. Any advancement on desktop components I'm all ears about, and there will plent to come.

Hi there

No further comment Is really is needed on this -- if businesses never looked at new equipment and technology then we'd still be in the stone age -- Look at a lot of UK infrastructure -- railways just coming out of Victorian era -- Signalling faults every day on Tubes / trains due to equipment built almost before ist world war, power stations falling to pieces and having to get FRANCE (or even CHINA !!) to build new one's which might not be ready before the country runs "out of juice" and even the latest CROSS RAIL system which should have been built 50 years ago is being handed over to the Germans to run it.

The Spanish own one of the UK's biggest Banks (Santander), an Egyptian national owns the country's most celebrated store (Harrods) and the airports and ports are owned by a mixture of businesses from SPAIN. QUATAR and DUBAI.

The top pharmaceuticals are also going to the USA (SHIRE PHARMA) for example) and the main confectionary business (Cadbury's ) has long since been swallowed up by the US firm Kraft's.

Even the last Wind turbine plant in the UK in the Isle of wight was closed recently and now all the turbines are built in Germany (Siemens) or Denmark -- neither country has particularly cheap labour either.

Finally if you like Cars -- Landrover and Jaguar have been taken over by an INDIAN Firm (TATA) and even the Mini - that iconic car of the 60's and 70's has been swallowed up by the German company BMW.

Seems UK PLC is rapidly being sold in bits and pieces to the highest bidders -- just hope for all your sakes the assets don't all end up in what is known as "Vulture Funds".

Cheers
jimbo
What the hell has my personal needs and wants and the requirements of the company I work for got to do with any of that? Nothing whatsoever, maybe you should become an economist and contract out to England instead of advertising the Surface Pro every time you post.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jul 2014   #50
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

A phone or Surface Pro that hooks up to a big screen, mouse, keyboard, printer I have no doubt this and more will come to be.
I just wonder who gets to carry the phone and who gets to carry the big screen, keyboard and mouse and printer when one travels.

Sounds crazy doesn't it.
Let me explain.
When some one travels and carries their portable to a location and plugs into all the PC system and other equipment, some one had to buy all that stationary equipment and have it at that location. Then the next location and so on.
When someones traveling to several location to do business with their portable they will be hooking it up to several stationary system. (PC system)
When one takes this portable to 6 places and hooks it up to 6 in house PC and hardware; well that is a 6 to 1 ratio. Someone in each and every location a portable is plugged into had to buy all that stationary equipment.

A laptop, tablet, phone ect. has one advantage and only one advantage over a Stationary PC System. It's portable, that it. That is a good thing if needed.

It always come down to; I plugged my tablet into this or that and it worked just great. Somebody had to buy this or that you just plugged into.

So both PC's and portables are a niche market. You buy what you want and or need. Many buy into both niche markets.
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 Microsoft exec admits new reality: Market share no longer 90%, it's 14




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