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Windows 7: Yosemite upgrade stops Macs with aftermarket SSDs from booting

23 Nov 2014   #21
groze

W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
IIRC, OEMs can still sell the computer without the W8 sticker and they can then do whatever they like.
Sure Oem's can sell the computer without the sticker but Oem's can't put windows 8 or above on those systems. It will be interesting to see if OEMS violate the contract, since now Oem's can only put 8 or above on unless they go with Linux or Chrome.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
23 Nov 2014   #22
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by groze View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
IIRC, OEMs can still sell the computer without the W8 sticker and they can then do whatever they like.
Sure Oem's can sell the computer without the sticker but Oem's can't put windows 8 or above on those systems. It will be interesting to see if OEMS violate the contract, since now Oem's can only put 8 or above on unless they go with Linux or Chrome.
That isn't my understanding of how it works (I could be mistaken though).

My impression was that any PC can be sold with W8 installed.

They can only be sold and display the official MS W8 sticker, if the OEM follows MS' instructions.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Nov 2014   #23
groze

W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by groze View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
IIRC, OEMs can still sell the computer without the W8 sticker and they can then do whatever they like.
Sure Oem's can sell the computer without the sticker but Oem's can't put windows 8 or above on those systems. It will be interesting to see if OEMS violate the contract, since now Oem's can only put 8 or above on unless they go with Linux or Chrome.
That isn't my understanding of how it works (I could be mistaken though).

My impression was that any PC can be sold with W8 installed.

They can only be sold and display the official MS W8 sticker, if the OEM follows MS' instructions.
lehnerus2000

I could be wrong. I don't have the article I read on this. I thought they couldn't sell windows 8 or above at all, 7 was ok before Microsoft stop selling some of them.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

24 Nov 2014   #24
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote:
Microsoft officials told attendees of the recent Build developers conference that Windows 8 clients must be certified in UEFI mode, and that support for secure boot is a Windows 8 certification requirement. But even though Microsoft is requiring OEMs to support secure boot in UEFI as part of its certification requirements, "OEMs are free to choose how to enable this support," the new post said

In other words, with Windows 8 certified systems secure boot support has to be there, but OEMs can decide whether or not they want to allow customers to be able to turn it off and how they handle the signature process for supported operating system versions.
In the September 22 post, officials said that Microsoft designed the Windows 8 firmware to allow customers to disable secure boot in the Windows 8 Developer Preview release if they so choose
ZDNet - Mary Jo Foley
Microsoft: Don't blame us if Windows 8's secure boot requirement blocks Linux dual-boot | ZDNet

Maybe the policy has changed since that article (2011-09-23).

I actually assume that MS can't tell OEMs how to implement it or they'd cop some US DoJ action.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Nov 2014   #25
groze

W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Quote:
Microsoft officials told attendees of the recent Build developers conference that Windows 8 clients must be certified in UEFI mode, and that support for secure boot is a Windows 8 certification requirement. But even though Microsoft is requiring OEMs to support secure boot in UEFI as part of its certification requirements, "OEMs are free to choose how to enable this support," the new post said

In other words, with Windows 8 certified systems secure boot support has to be there, but OEMs can decide whether or not they want to allow customers to be able to turn it off and how they handle the signature process for supported operating system versions.
In the September 22 post, officials said that Microsoft designed the Windows 8 firmware to allow customers to disable secure boot in the Windows 8 Developer Preview release if they so choose
ZDNet - Mary Jo Foley
Microsoft: Don't blame us if Windows 8's secure boot requirement blocks Linux dual-boot | ZDNet

Maybe the policy has changed since that article (2011-09-23).

I actually assume that MS can't tell OEMs how to implement it or they'd cop some US DoJ action.
lehnerus2000;

One question can windows 8 be removed and still boot to Linux if secure boot is on? I read if it is up to the OEM's to do this a lot of Linux people will not like that. It is hard to find a computer without an operating system or a with a Linux pre-installed system installed. If you do find one computer with Linux pre-installed it cost twice as much. This get into this who owns the computer is it, mine or the oem's? In fact, I didn't like agreeing to dell agreement with mine. You have to agree to this to use the computer, no I don't--I bought it. I am not talking about Microsoft or Dell's EULA either.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Nov 2014   #26
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

I'm not sure about the intricacies of Secure Boot.
I suspect that like DRM, it is only a hindrance to legitimate users.

I think that most Linux Distros have come up with methods (certificates?) to get around the issue.

My PC is a "Frankenstein's Monster", cobbled together from various parts over many years.

IMO, off-the-shelf PCs seem to be cheap junk or ridiculously overpriced.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Nov 2014   #27
rvcjew

7 Pro x64, 10 Pro x64
 
 

This is just like when they screwed old imacs from updating to lion. You could open them up switch to a 64bit cpu install lion only to learn it wont boot without a modified kernel as they had in the stock one blacklisted serial numbers of the old models. That being said their build quality for the retina macbook pro 15" I own is insane even if it is glued together lol.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Nov 2014   #28
Aperture

Windows 7 Home Premium
 
 

I bought an Apple Macbook Air 13" about 6 months ago.
Reason: I only use it as a chess computer, nothing else (I use Hiarcs).
I bought it because it has 12 hr battery life, couldn't find an ultra light Win computer that matched it, and in reality the Air is right about that. They can have that, but...

I've been regretting buying it almost every day since I brought the damn thing home.

NEVER again...

And to think people find this intuitive is beyond amazing!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Nov 2014   #29
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
I hear you

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Aperture View Post
I bought an Apple Macbook Air 13" about 6 months ago.
...
And to think people find this intuitive is beyond amazing!
Agreed.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Don't get me started on the so-called superior Mac GUI.
I find it strangely unusable (even simple tasks like copying a pathname are a baffling ordeal).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Nov 2014   #30
groze

W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Aperture View Post
I bought an Apple Macbook Air 13" about 6 months ago.
Reason: I only use it as a chess computer, nothing else (I use Hiarcs).
I bought it because it has 12 hr battery life, couldn't find an ultra light Win computer that matched it, and in reality the Air is right about that. They can have that, but...

I've been regretting buying it almost every day since I brought the damn thing home.

NEVER again...

And to think people find this intuitive is beyond amazing!
Aperture

You can install Linux but you may need to remove the Mac os to avoid violating the eula. Most likely it may void your warranty if put another Operating system on a Mac. There is a debate on both of these issues.
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 Yosemite upgrade stops Macs with aftermarket SSDs from booting




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