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Windows 7: Seagate slapped with class action lawsuit over hard drive failure rate

05 Feb 2016   #41
BlueGuy

W7 Ultimate 32-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mjf View Post
If I didn't have system images and other important data on these drives I'd give it ago. .
Well, I consider that to be important enough to always use some kind of removable to store critical
items. In the Win98 days, I used those SCSI LS100 [100MB] drives to store images,(legacy from my old Atari TT) then later started burning images to DVDs(once I got the hang of Windoze s/w) and in the future, since I've been including card readers in all my builds, of moving to Compact Flash and/or Secure Digital because some times the image can exceed the capacity of even a dual layer {BR} DVD.
For now, because they're cheap, I still use DVDs but with a file splitter/joiner I found at Majorgeeks in the utilities section.

It depends on how precious the data is to you.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
06 Feb 2016   #42
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BlueGuy View Post
Well, I consider that to be important enough to always use some kind of removable to store critical
items.
....
For now, because they're cheap, I still use DVDs but with a file splitter/joiner I found at Majorgeeks in the utilities section.

It depends on how precious the data is to you.
I use basic sata HDDs in a docking station. I have numerous external WD drives in WD enclosures but I've already commented on their deficiencies. I would never rely on CD/DVDs for long term data storage unless they were certified archive quality and they are expensive.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 Feb 2016   #43
BlueGuy

W7 Ultimate 32-bit
 
 

[QUOTE=mjf;3212515]
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BlueGuy View Post
I would never rely on CD/DVDs for long term data storage unless they were certified archive quality and they are expensive.
Define long term, I make a fresh image DVD every few months, making the previous obsolete, yet the
4.2 gig DVD from the old Win98 Fujitsu drive, 15 years old is still intact and I use it to write to my work partitions, those things that are still useful, even though the Fujitsu drive hasn't gone belly up.
However it is IDE, requiring the IDE PCI card I just put away in 2013, for reading.

Even my 12-inch LD collection of 300 disks[from better times] 'laser rot' or if you want to call it 'optical rot' only five of the LDs have symptoms of such, long since replaced by superior digital copies. I keep them around rather than send them to a landfill or like that scene in "Back to the Future II" where Marty
and Doc Brown are in the alley[2015] and you see un-sleeved [bare] LaserDiscs wrapped up on shipping pallets, ready for disposal (inside joke..as Universal had huge investment in Phillip's LD format in the 1980s). I trust optical/digital more than I trust magnetic, just one shot of EMP, or just a stray field from some bad electrical wiring, and poof.....magnetic storage gone.

Why do you think early Macs, Commodore and Atari computers had their OSs on ROM chips? all you needed back then were configuration files edited, on floppy or expensive 10Megabyte HDDs and you were good to go, lose a disk, and you could still bootup to the basic desktop.

Let's get this thread back on topic, I really wasn't expecting a debate on my days off....


To each their own......................
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

06 Feb 2016   #44
Borg 386

Win 7 32 Home Premium, Win 7 64 Pro, Win 8.1, Win 10
 
 

I still use CDR's & DVD's to store important/personal files. Granted, they are subject to bit rot, but that's something I don't have to worry about for a while. Once it's written on the disk & stored in a safe place, you truly have a hard copy that has no chance of failure (unless you give the CD to a small child or someone that's careless, then the resulting scratches could ruin it.).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 Feb 2016   #45
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Borg 386 View Post
I still use CDR's & DVD's to store important/personal files. Granted, they are subject to bit rot, but that's something I don't have to worry about for a while. Once it's written on the disk & stored in a safe place, you truly have a hard copy that has no chance of failure (unless you give the CD to a small child or someone that's careless, then the resulting scratches could ruin it.).
The optical disks are ok unless you have several hundred GB of data to store.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 Feb 2016   #46
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 
Care and Handling of CDs and DVDs A Guide for Librarians and Archivi

National Institute of Standards and Technology
Special Publication 500-252, October 2003, Final
NIST Digital Media Group: digitalPhysicalMediaAndDevice
Storage conditions are important as well as the quality of the manufacture.
"> Few, if any, life expectancy reports for these discs have been published by independent laboratories. An accelerated aging study at
NIST estimated the life expectancy of one type of DVD-R for authoring disc to be 30 years if stored at 25C (77F) and 50% relative humidity. This testing for R discs is in the preliminary stages, and much
more needs to be done."


"> The life expectancy (LE) of optical discs depends on many factors,
some controllable by the user, others not.
Factors that affect disc life expectancy include the following:
• type
• manufacturing quality
• condition of the disc before recording
• quality of the disc recording
• handling and maintenance
• environmental conditions"


They also say that manufacturers typically specify a shelf life of ~5 years before writing. So old CD/DVDs should not be used.
In short I'd make at least 2 copies for say documents, photos etc. I'd never use DVDs for a system image.
The other thing which may not be mentioned in the report is the effect of your DVD writer alignment. If the alignment is out then you may have difficulty reading the CD/DVD on a properly aligned unit.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 Feb 2016   #47
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

I should have kept my my mouth shut.

My oldest WD Green HDD (June 2009) suddenly stopped yesterday (a few minutes into a video).
The last time I checked the SMART data it was still looking good.

Over six years of use doesn't seem too bad though.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 Feb 2016   #48
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

Most of my important data is on a 1TB Seagate split into 2 partitions. It would have to be ~ 5 years old. HDDs are like big dogs - Never fully trust them. I periodically clone this data drive to a 1TB WD Black kept in a docking station. When the Seagate dies I'll plug in the WD Black, buy a new HDD and continue the process.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2016   #49
maxseven

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 6.1 Build 7601 (SP1)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BlueGuy View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BlueGuy View Post
I would never rely on CD/DVDs for long term data storage unless they were certified archive quality and they are expensive.
Define long term, I make a fresh image DVD every few months, making the previous obsolete, yet the
4.2 gig DVD from the old Win98 Fujitsu drive, 15 years old is still intact and I use it to write to my work partitions, those things that are still useful, even though the Fujitsu drive hasn't gone belly up.
However it is IDE, requiring the IDE PCI card I just put away in 2013, for reading.

Even my 12-inch LD collection of 300 disks[from better times] 'laser rot' or if you want to call it 'optical rot' only five of the LDs have symptoms of such, long since replaced by superior digital copies. I keep them around rather than send them to a landfill or like that scene in "Back to the Future II" where Marty
and Doc Brown are in the alley[2015] and you see un-sleeved [bare] LaserDiscs wrapped up on shipping pallets, ready for disposal (inside joke..as Universal had huge investment in Phillip's LD format in the 1980s). I trust optical/digital more than I trust magnetic, just one shot of EMP, or just a stray field from some bad electrical wiring, and poof.....magnetic storage gone.

Why do you think early Macs, Commodore and Atari computers had their OSs on ROM chips? all you needed back then were configuration files edited, on floppy or expensive 10Megabyte HDDs and you were good to go, lose a disk, and you could still bootup to the basic desktop.

Let's get this thread back on topic, I really wasn't expecting a debate on my days off....


To each their own......................
I stumbled into this thread and enjoyed your post BlueGuy--I have some 1200-1400 Laserdiscs and a whole bunch of Discovision discs gathering dust!

IMO the best current archival disc solution is M-DISC. Seems to me the Army tested and the White House uses and although they are billed as (M)illenial storage i.e. 1,000 years, I'll be happy if they're readable for the rest of my life anyway.

I have a spindle of 25GB discs but I think they might have 50 and 100GB discs now too. They are NOT expensive, at least not by comparison to the value of your personal photos, videos, and documents. I would not use them to archive e.g. movies that one could buy again if necessary.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2016   #50
Borg 386

Win 7 32 Home Premium, Win 7 64 Pro, Win 8.1, Win 10
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
The optical disks are ok unless you have several hundred GB of data to store.
That unfortunately is true. But using them for pictures, music, etc., works good for me. It's definitely not a good medium for large amounts of files. But still, I trust those better then having all my files on a HDD only to have it fail one day & loose it all.

Just out of curiosity, I set up doing a system image for Win 7 on disks to see how many it would take. It said the image would need 8 DVD R's.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Seagate slapped with class action lawsuit over hard drive failure rate




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