Windows 7 Forums

Welcome to Windows 7 Forums. Our forum is dedicated to helping you find support and solutions for any problems regarding your Windows 7 PC be it Dell, HP, Acer, Asus or a custom build. We also provide an extensive Windows 7 tutorial section that covers a wide range of tips and tricks.


Windows 7: Show Us Your Rig [8]

22 Feb 2015   #1151
linnemeyerhere

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ultimate 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
Linnemeyerhere:
No argument from me! Below is a crappy pic of my Pro-Ject RPM 9.2 Evo on a Ground It Deluxe plinth from my main system. 60lbs of analog bliss! Cartridge is an Ortofon Cadenza Black and phono preamp is a Manley Labs Chinook. Also attached a 200x microscope view of the stylus on the Cadenza Black. I use a digital microscope to help set the SRA (Stylus Rake Angle). Diamonds maybe a girl’s best friend but not when they are a Nude Shibata tip on a Boron cantilever!!

Layback Bear:
I actually wanted to sleeve my own – thought it would be a fun project. But I stumbled across pre-built at a local computer shop for the cheap…couldn’t resist. I’ll take on the project another day.

Shinigami8671:
Huge improvements in sound can be had when using a separate DAC/Amplifier. Doesn’t have to be as “hi end” as what I have. The Asus Essence STX is an amazing 2 channel PCIe sound card that has a pretty damn good headphone amp built in. The Teac external DAC I am using is acting as my sound card. Connected via Asynchronous USB which allows PCM sampling up to 24bit @ 384 khz and DSD sampling up to 5.6 mhz. It does have a heaphone out connection but that doesn’t hold a candle to the big Bryston headphone amplifier. Bryston is world renowned for their hi-end amplifiers. And they are CANADIAN EH!!
Nothing still has the pace, aire and swing of a proper Analog front end, good on ya mate ! Here are a couple of mine.......

Show Us Your Rig [8]-img_1448.jpg

Show Us Your Rig [8]-mitsi-lt30.jpg

Show Us Your Rig [8]-setup-west-la-001.jpg




My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
22 Feb 2015   #1152
society misfit

Windows 7 Professional
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by shinigami8671 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
Shinigami8671:
Huge improvements in sound can be had when using a separate DAC/Amplifier. Doesn’t have to be as “hi end” as what I have. The Asus Essence STX is an amazing 2 channel PCIe sound card that has a pretty damn good headphone amp built in. The Teac external DAC I am using is acting as my sound card. Connected via Asynchronous USB which allows PCM sampling up to 24bit @ 384 khz and DSD sampling up to 5.6 mhz. It does have a heaphone out connection but that doesn’t hold a candle to the big Bryston headphone amplifier. Bryston is world renowned for their hi-end amplifiers. And they are CANADIAN EH!!
So from what I understand, I SHOULD get a separate sound card? lol
Its definitely a high priority now! Thanks for such a detailed reply misfit ...
Maybe or maybe not. Many of the newer MOBOs have onboard sound that is as good as you can get from most separate sound cards (only the very best will have better sound and very few new ones are coming out anymore). My MOBO is an older Sandy Bridge-e board and it has pretty good onboard sound. I did benefit from a high end 2.0 sound card (Asus Xonar Essence STX) fed into a 2.1 system (Corsair SP 2500; the card and speakers act like they were made for each other) but not by a huge amount. While my system isn't exactly the world's greatest, it's compact (two small satellites that I wall mounted, a big sub/amp that fits in the knee hole of my desk, and a control pod that sets on my desk), doesn't require a bunch of external components hogging space I don't have, and is plenty good enough for my main music source (ripped CDs) and my old ears (anything over 8k is simply not there for me).
The only way anyone can really tell if they need a sound card or not is to get one and try it. I bought mine locally so I would have plenty of time to evaluate it within the 30 day return envelope. It was enough of an improvement for me to justify its expense and losing a PCI-e slot. Not everyone will have that experience. There is a newer version of the STX that has a version capable of up to 7.1 that is out now (though it's a little hard to find) that supposedly sounds better but I just can't justify the expense for it.
One of the biggest misconceptions with audio is that some feel they will not hear an improvement given the limitation in their hearing. This is completely false with the only limiting factors being your willingness, budget and imagination. The Xonar was just an example of a computer company making a good audio product. I also own one and although it is a big improvement compared to the onboard audio chips of motherboards, it is way out classed by my Teac DAC and Bryston HP amp. And rightfully so given the cost differences. Saying that though, high price does not always mean high performance! I also own an Audio Quest Dragonfly USB DAC. At ~ $150 this little thumb drive size DAC sounds absolutely amazing! USB powered, its internal amplifier will drive all but the most demanding headphones. Its output can also connect to your home stereo or to a pair of powered computer speakers or studio monitors. Still doesn’t hold a candle to my Teac/Bryston combo, but it does sound better than my Berhringer professional studio quality DAC that costs nearly 3 times as much. A prime example of “audiophile” (I hate that word!) sound that can be accomplished without that “audiophile” price tag!

External DACs, sound cards and monster headphone amplifiers aside, a balance still needs to be made with the rest of the audio chain. One will not reach audio nirvana plugging Apple ear buds into an amplifier such as the Bryston. Nor will you hear much of an improvement if your music files are a compressed lossy format. Pick up a pair of quality headphones – there a hundreds out there and they do not have to be expensive. Or a pair of powered studio monitors, again cost does not have to be extreme. And rip your music to a lossless format. Your ears will love you for it (even if your hearing is limited to 8khz!)

I will leave you with “The Ghost in the MP3”. An excellent example of what is actually removed when compressing music to a lossy format.

The Ghost in the MP3
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Feb 2015   #1153
society misfit

Windows 7 Professional
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by linnemeyerhere View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
Linnemeyerhere:
No argument from me! Below is a crappy pic of my Pro-Ject RPM 9.2 Evo on a Ground It Deluxe plinth from my main system. 60lbs of analog bliss! Cartridge is an Ortofon Cadenza Black and phono preamp is a Manley Labs Chinook. Also attached a 200x microscope view of the stylus on the Cadenza Black. I use a digital microscope to help set the SRA (Stylus Rake Angle). Diamonds maybe a girl’s best friend but not when they are a Nude Shibata tip on a Boron cantilever!!

Layback Bear:
I actually wanted to sleeve my own – thought it would be a fun project. But I stumbled across pre-built at a local computer shop for the cheap…couldn’t resist. I’ll take on the project another day.

Shinigami8671:
Huge improvements in sound can be had when using a separate DAC/Amplifier. Doesn’t have to be as “hi end” as what I have. The Asus Essence STX is an amazing 2 channel PCIe sound card that has a pretty damn good headphone amp built in. The Teac external DAC I am using is acting as my sound card. Connected via Asynchronous USB which allows PCM sampling up to 24bit @ 384 khz and DSD sampling up to 5.6 mhz. It does have a heaphone out connection but that doesn’t hold a candle to the big Bryston headphone amplifier. Bryston is world renowned for their hi-end amplifiers. And they are CANADIAN EH!!
Nothing still has the pace, aire and swing of a proper Analog front end, good on ya mate ! Here are a couple of mine.......

Attachment 350456

Attachment 350457

Attachment 350458
Awesome stuff! Love the reel to reel! Fully agree nothing compares to a great analog front end. I love the reaction I get from my iPhone/MP3 friends when I drop the needle. Gobsmacked!! I’ve converted a few of them over to vinyl!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

22 Feb 2015   #1154
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by shinigami8671 View Post
So from what I understand, I SHOULD get a separate sound card? lol
Its definitely a high priority now! Thanks for such a detailed reply misfit ...
Maybe or maybe not. Many of the newer MOBOs have onboard sound that is as good as you can get from most separate sound cards (only the very best will have better sound and very few new ones are coming out anymore). My MOBO is an older Sandy Bridge-e board and it has pretty good onboard sound. I did benefit from a high end 2.0 sound card (Asus Xonar Essence STX) fed into a 2.1 system (Corsair SP 2500; the card and speakers act like they were made for each other) but not by a huge amount. While my system isn't exactly the world's greatest, it's compact (two small satellites that I wall mounted, a big sub/amp that fits in the knee hole of my desk, and a control pod that sets on my desk), doesn't require a bunch of external components hogging space I don't have, and is plenty good enough for my main music source (ripped CDs) and my old ears (anything over 8k is simply not there for me).
The only way anyone can really tell if they need a sound card or not is to get one and try it. I bought mine locally so I would have plenty of time to evaluate it within the 30 day return envelope. It was enough of an improvement for me to justify its expense and losing a PCI-e slot. Not everyone will have that experience. There is a newer version of the STX that has a version capable of up to 7.1 that is out now (though it's a little hard to find) that supposedly sounds better but I just can't justify the expense for it.
One of the biggest misconceptions with audio is that some feel they will not hear an improvement given the limitation in their hearing. This is completely false with the only limiting factors being your willingness, budget and imagination. The Xonar was just an example of a computer company making a good audio product. I also own one and although it is a big improvement compared to the onboard audio chips of motherboards, it is way out classed by my Teac DAC and Bryston HP amp. And rightfully so given the cost differences. Saying that though, high price does not always mean high performance! I also own an Audio Quest Dragonfly USB DAC. At ~ $150 this little thumb drive size DAC sounds absolutely amazing! USB powered, its internal amplifier will drive all but the most demanding headphones. Its output can also connect to your home stereo or to a pair of powered computer speakers or studio monitors. Still doesn’t hold a candle to my Teac/Bryston combo, but it does sound better than my Berhringer professional studio quality DAC that costs nearly 3 times as much. A prime example of “audiophile” (I hate that word!) sound that can be accomplished without that “audiophile” price tag!

External DACs, sound cards and monster headphone amplifiers aside, a balance still needs to be made with the rest of the audio chain. One will not reach audio nirvana plugging Apple ear buds into an amplifier such as the Bryston. Nor will you hear much of an improvement if your music files are a compressed lossy format. Pick up a pair of quality headphones – there a hundreds out there and they do not have to be expensive. Or a pair of powered studio monitors, again cost does not have to be extreme. And rip your music to a lossless format. Your ears will love you for it (even if your hearing is limited to 8khz!)

I will leave you with “The Ghost in the MP3”. An excellent example of what is actually removed when compressing music to a lossy format.

The Ghost in the MP3
Actually, how the condition of one's hearing affects how people hear improvement in quality or not is NOT a myth. I hear everything below 8k just fine but it doesn't matter how improved the high end of music may or may not be because I will not hear it; period. It's something that happens to pretty much everyone as they age, not matter if they abused their ears or not. One's ability to hear detail can also be affected by age but, fortunately, it hasn't affected me much, if at all, as long as it is below 8kHz.

Yes, mp3 is lossless but, depending on the bit rate, most of the loss is from outside the range of normal hearing (btw, I don't remember even mentioning mp3s). Even at only 128kbps, the difference between a mp3 rip and a lossless compression, or even .wav, is indiscernible to most people. I can hear the difference but just barely. That's why my mp3 rips are 320kbps and why I do not buy downloads unless they are the only source available for a particular piece. I only use mp3s at all because they can be played on pretty much any player, such as the one in my truck, whereas lossless formats, such as FLAC, are still compatible with only a few players. I also rip my CDs to compression free .wav for future conversion if necessary (why not, computer storage space is cheap). Rips also require almost infinitely less storage space than CDs (a tiny fraction of a HDD in my computer instead of a wall of shelf space for CDs in their jewel boxes).

Yes, good, large, high priced audio systems will produce a better sound, depending on the sound source, but I simply do NOT have the room or budget for one (especially the room). There is literally nowhere for me to put an external DAC, tuner, and amplifier, not to mention large speakers. I live in a small mobile home and my sound system is in a small room that doesn't have the luxury of being able to be acoustically tuned.

Most recordings simply do not have the quality to take proper advantage of really good sound systems. In fact, a really good sound system will magnify the flaws in poorly mixed recordings. I have a few CDs I really like that I ripped that force me to turn off the sub to be able to listen to them because the idiot sound engineer (may he roast!; I'll provide the match and fuel!) cranked up the bass when mixing the recording, apparently in a misguided attempt (more like contempt) to compensate for the poorer bass response of cheap stereos and portable players (either that or the ignorant clown actually thought boomy is good). One of these days, I will edit them to reduce the excessive bass levels so I can include them in a playlist of other recordings in the same genre.

While I'm on a roll, it has been mentioned that analog is better than digital. That is utter nonsense. The media analog is recorded on (such as tape, vinyl, or, if you go back far enough, wax) simply cannot accept and reproduce the detail and frequency range one can get from digital (assuming a high enough sampling is used). Digital does not deteriorate from wear with each play the way analog recordings will and does not deteriorate with age, whether played or not. The so called analog "warmth" "audiophiles" (I'm not exactly a fan of that word, either) treasure is nothing but distortion and a limited frequency range, all of which can be duplicated with filters and equalizer settings.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Feb 2015   #1155
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

This is B/S.
From post #1152

Quote:
One of the biggest misconceptions with audio is that some feel they will not hear an improvement given the limitation in their hearing. This is completely false with the only limiting factors being your willingness, budget and imagination.
When one doesn't hear sounds from range XX to XXX the quality of the sound does not matter. You still can't hear form range XX to XXX. I have some very costly hearing aids in both ears and it does help some for ranges that I hear poorly. All they seem to do is raise the volume in those ranges but not the quality of the sound.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Feb 2015   #1156
society misfit

Windows 7 Professional
 
 

I apologize if I stepped on anyone toes here. The point I was trying to get across is that one should not omit a quality playback system just because they cannot hear the highest of frequencies. I never once stated that a quality system will allow you to hear a frequency(s) you physically cannot. There is a world of musical information below 8khz, or whatever your limit is. And yes the quality of its playback can be improved upon with better engineered equipment (not necessarily more expensive!) and improved media. Intergraded sound chips on motherboards, although much better than what they use to be, are not the last word in sound reproduction. If someone is interested on improving in this area, as what I gathered from post 1147, then just as I stated, the only limiting factors are ones willingness, budget and imagination.



Lady Fitzgerald; your earlier post stated that the Xonar sound card was an improvement over the intergraded chip on your motherboard. And that your uncompressed WAV sounded better than your MP3. Both are prime examples of improvements made regardless of you not being able to hear anything above 8khz. This is the exact point I am trying to make. And although the WAV rip cannot be improved (unless we go back and master a higher resolution), the equipment you use to play it back can (if you are willing of course!). And it does not have to be a wall of amplifiers and monstrous speakers. It can be as small as a deck of cards, or like the Audio Quest Dragonfly I pointed out, even smaller!



Layback bear; I apologise if I offended you in any way but I think you took my post out of context. I never stated a piece of equipment will allow you to hear something you physically cannot. I have heard this may times – someone claiming they will not be able to appreciate quality audio because they cannot hear beyond XXX frequency. That is simply just not true.


I shared my system with anticipation that it would lead to discussion for I am sure there are many out there that are generally interested. I am open for questions and even healthy debates for I am sure we can all learn something. I am not here to offend or upset anyone. I like this forum – I think you guys and gals are top notch!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Feb 2015   #1157
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I'm no ear ball doctor or tech. I really don't know every thing I can't hear because I can't hear them.
That is why test were taken by the experts. Their are sound ranges I can't hear. Their are also sound ranges that I hear poorly but that can be improved with hearing aids.

I have absolutely no problem with quality audio equipment. It should improve the sound that I can hear.
My ears quiet working properly when I was in my early twenties because of my time spent on the old Smoke Boats.
The only sound i hear well is a constant ringing in my ears which after a while I pay no attention to until such a subject comes up.

I know you don't mean no harm in any fashion. Hearing conditions are hard to explain to people that hear well.
Example: When I'm in a room with several people I can hear them but not well enough to understand what is being said or where the sound is coming from. Which to me makes it noise.

Now back to equipment. Some of todays new motherboard have more than enough sound quality for most if a good speaker system is used. Some sound cards aren't even that good. Yet their are some sound cards that exceed the sound quality of motherboards built in sound.

To me it's simple. Get as good of sound equipment that improves your listing enjoyment and withing your pocket book. Don't forget that no matter what sound equipment one uses it has to come out through good to great speakers. I would rather have two great speakers than a junk 7 way speaker system.
More speakers don't improve sound unless they are of quality.

P.S.
My toes are just fine.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Feb 2015   #1158
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
...The point I was trying to get across is that one should not omit a quality playback system just because they cannot hear the highest of frequencies...
And I never said that one should. I just said there are limitations to what improvements once can get, depending on their hearing ability.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
...And yes the quality of its playback can be improved upon with better engineered equipment (not necessarily more expensive!) and improved media...
And therein lies the rub (apologies to Billy Wigglestick). If one is using the best media available, that is the limiting factor on how much gain can be made from improving equipment.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
...Intergraded sound chips on motherboards, although much better than what they use to be, are not the last word in sound reproduction. If someone is interested on improving in this area, as what I gathered from post 1147, then just as I stated, the only limiting factors are ones willingness, budget and imagination...
Actually, if using sound cards, the quality of the sound card is the limiting factor, which is what was being discussed. Asus is the only manufacturer still actively improving sound cards that I know of. Other sound cards are falling behind as MOBOs get better onboard sound. To do any better than what one can get from a sound card, one has to leave sound cards behind. Then willingness, budget, and imagination enter in, along with available space and quality of sound source. In my case, space, budget, and quality of sound source were the main limiting factors.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by society misfit View Post
...Lady Fitzgerald; your earlier post stated that the Xonar sound card was an improvement over the intergraded chip on your motherboard. And that your uncompressed WAV sounded better than your MP3. Both are prime examples of improvements made regardless of you not being able to hear anything above 8khz. This is the exact point I am trying to make. And although the WAV rip cannot be improved (unless we go back and master a higher resolution), the equipment you use to play it back can (if you are willing of course!)...
Actually, not being to hear over 8k is a factor in what improvements can be made. What's the point in having higher quality tweeters if one can't hear the output? Also, the same thing that cause the hearing loss above 8k (in my case, old age), also causes a loss in the ability to hear details at lower frequencies. There is a limit to how much improvement one can make before the improvements can no longer be heard or is no longer cost effective. Another limiting factor is the listening environment. My system is in a room that has one window, bare floors, one wall of bypass sliding closet doors, the remaining walls covered with shelves, a desk, a dresser, two night stands, and a twin sized bed. The room is approximately 12' by 10' (yeah, it's pretty crowded). Acoustically, it pretty much sucks but it is what I have available. There is a limit to how good of a sound system can be made to work in here. Also, head phones are not an option (they are uncomfortable).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Feb 2015   #1159
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
...I would rather have two great speakers than a junk 7 way speaker system.
More speakers don't improve sound unless they are of quality...
For music, a 7.1 system is unnecessary overkill. For movies and gaming, if the listening space is large enough to accommodate the system, 5.1 and 7.1 system can contribute to the listening experience.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Feb 2015   #1160
AddRAM

Windows 7 Pro x64 Windows 10 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by shinigami8671 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by AddRAM View Post
Come on get this....

EVGA - Articles - EVGA GeForce GTX 980 K|NGP|N ACX 2.0+

4th Gen cpu means a whole new board
You know, I actually can afford it at the price range, of around around $560~ but when it is delivered to me, it will cost about 140-150$ more at least, at around $700 minimum. So its not affordable
Yes actually I've got the whole thing planned out. If I can sell out my current setup (without PSU and case), I can easily buy 4th gen i7, a good board, GTX 970 AND 16 gigs of ram with about 100$ from my pocket.
So fingers crossed, and hope it all goes according to plan
EVGA has it listed at $799

EVGA - Products - EVGA GeForce GTX 980 K|NGP|N ACX 2.0+ - 04G-P4-5988-KR
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 Show Us Your Rig [8]




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search




Similar help and support threads
Thread Forum
Subfolders does not show in OWA, but show in Outlook.
Hi! Running server 2008 with exchange server. The user is using both OWA webmail and local Outlook. User got multiple inbox's to access, 1 personal and 2 for the company. The personal one got subfolders which shows in OWA, but the problem is the other folders. They are only needed by this 1...
Microsoft Office
HDDs Show in BIOS, But Do Not Show in Disk Management
Hello, A newbie here that just completed a first-time new Win7 PC build. Successful installation of Win7 Pro on WD 600GB 10000 system drive. Went back and installed 4 additional HDD. (2) WD Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM and (2) WD Caviar 7200 500GB HDD from XP system that were used for storage. ...
Hardware & Devices
Show us your Wig
:haha:
Chillout Room
backup files will only show up if i click show hidden files and folder
Hey Guys, I cannot find a soultion to this problem. I was using my desktop like normal then an error came up saying that there was a hdd failure, and that i needed to scan for errors. all my files disappeared and only this error would come up. There would be hundreds of the same msg spamed on my...
Backup and Restore
show hidden folders show file extensions thru registry
I am trying to setup a default user or machine setup for how win7 handles folder view options. I want show hidden folders to be set to on for all users and the hide extensions for know file types to be unchecked or turned off ffor all users (so extensions show) I have located them in the registry...
General Discussion
CD-RW & DVD-RW do not show up
I just recently installed 7 64bit over my Vista 64 bit (ultimate) and everything is great so far, except neither of my optical drives are available. Lite-On DVDRW SOHW-1693S MSI CD-RW CR52 I initially got an error on both drives for "Windows cannot verify the digital signature for the...
Drivers


Our Sites

Site Links

About Us

Find Us

Windows 7 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 7" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

© Designer Media Ltd

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39.

Twitter Facebook Google+



Windows 7 Forums

Seven Forums Android App Seven Forums IOS App