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Windows 7: Really Important.

11 Aug 2011   #31

Windows 7 Ultimate

right now his temps are far, far above what they should be. no lowering the temps by 20c will not solve the problem. i should clarify on the load issue. with those temps at even idle he is going to see a performance hit in windows. when we hit 90 or above here i can see 60c plus on my system under load. when it pushes 60c all kinds of things in windows start to misbehave. when i'm at full load and the temp is at it's normal 52c for full load windows behaves fine. with his system load from the image above versus mine he should not be getting anywhere near those temps. i still say hardware problem, and or improper cooling.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Aug 2011   #32

Windows 7 Profession 64-bit

sorry digerati but it is true. the hotter the components get the harder they have to work to do the same job.
No! That is not how digital electronics in general, or CPUs specifically work. Sorry, Dude but you are misinformed and confused in several areas.

Note earlier you said,
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DalekOverSeer
i would ask how many background programs are running. a 10 to 15% constant load really isn't that high. and 60 to 70% playing a game is very possible.
No problem so far, but then said,
part of the load is because of the higher temps...
No! The clock speed and tasks running in RAM, with a little help from the user and the OS, determine how "hard" a CPU works, not the temperature! The temperature has absolutely ZERO impact on CPU utilization! And CPU utilization, stated in percent, is the load on the CPU.

Heat affects stability. An unstable CPU shutsdown, or locks up. It does not increase or decrease in percent utilization. It does not speed up or slow down - unless told to by a BIOS setting, Cool n Quiet settings, or some other thermal protection feature as commonly found in notebooks.

Please understand, I am an electronics technician first, computer (and audio reproduction) hardware support comes just after that. I am not boasting - for my credentials pale to many here at SevenForums - I am just pointing out we all come from different areas within IT, and mine happens to be a 40+ year career in electronics theory, hardware support and maintenance. Therefore, I have a special personal, and professional interest in digital electronics theory and was perfectly serious when I said earlier, "some links to some studies to support your position would be nice, but I don't believe you will find any." The Laws of Physics and Electronics Theory, and for what it's worth, my training and experience, don't support it either.

If the load on the CPU changed based on CPU temperature, you would be able to see that in Process Explorer. You would see a direct correlation between the temperature variances and total CPU utilization as well as the percentage points that extra load (process) is consuming. What's that process for... "heat loading"(?) called?

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DalekOverSeer
as for the 100f temp yes it is high even when playing a game, but that cpu should be able to handle 130f without hurting it. i would take the one suggesting and check to see if you case and fans need cleaning. second i would check the air flow.

Digerati i'm pretty sure he is talking fahrenheit not celsius. if it was getting to 100c the system would shut down.
This is all messed up. 100F = 37.8C - almost cold when it comes to CPUs. 130F is only 54.4C, still plenty safe for a CPU. I don't start getting even a little nervous until the CPU touches 60C. Yes, 100C is super hot - assuming the $.02 sensor and monitoring program interpreted it correctly. However, some GPUs run at 100C, and hotter and remain stable.


Back to fans, that came from a comment earlier,
Fans should not be used to force air through a system, rather to assist the natural flow of air (which will be from the bottom front to the upper rear).
And with that I disagree. Fans should be used to force air, lots of air "through" a system. Following the natural flow (heat rises) is perhaps more efficient if only one or two fans (excluding PSU) are used. And for most people, probably plenty. But I note many cases, such as that Cooler Master has 6 large fans blasting in cubic yards per minute. Natural flow is irrelevant with that much flowing through. It could go any way and keep the components cool.

And yes, larger fans move massive amounts of air at a lower RPM, and therefore are quieter than the old 80mm fans, used commonly in older cases for many years.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Aug 2011   #33

Windows 7 Ultimate

s0uLFir3 i'm out of here as long as the above jacka** is in the thread. i know what i'm talking about from experience. i do not need his pure bs.
My System SpecsSystem Spec

12 Aug 2011   #34

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DalekOverSeer View Post
i still say hardware problem, and or improper cooling.
It is definitely a problem with cooling. We all agree on that. I would doubt it is due to poor case airflow, because his GPU temp is low, but it never hurts to do a quick audit of system fans to make sure they are blowing properly, and in the right directions.

The point you seem to be taking issue with is that temperature increases will make his system run slower. In theory, electronics do become less efficient at higher temperatures, but what you aren't realizing is that we aren't talking about enough of an extreme temperature difference, and not enough to have any real affect on that. The workload on a processor doesn't increase just because it's temps increase.

Take a look at some extreme overclockers. Some will use wild cooling solutions to go -50 or -100 degrees C, just to squeeze out a little bit more of an overclocking. That extreme temp difference only yields a small fraction of what a warmer temp could achieve. That's all about pushing clock speeds. If a processor is left at stock, those extreme cooling methods wouldn't somehow make the processor work less or become faster.

My tower sits in a spare bedroom / office that gets warm half of the year. I replaced my stock OEM cooler from Intel with the Hyper 212+ because I thought my temps were getting a little high under a load, like a game or an encoding session. Swapping it out for a better cooler brought my temps way down, but it certainly didn't make my processor work less or run faster. I did it for stability and longevity.

Now, as for the OP, the likely cause is dust that is slowing or preventing the HSF from spinning. It is also quite easy to mismount the HSF, even stock ones, so they are actually resting on the bracket and not the CPU. The thermal paste could also have been exposed to more air than it should of by a mismounted proc, and isn't creating a good, solid connection between the CPU and HSF surfaces. If it was my system, the first thing I'd do is get new thermal paste, remove the HSF, clean both surfaces, and reapply/reinstall.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Aug 2011   #35

Windows 7 Profession 64-bit

Gee, DalekOverSeer. Instead of defending your position with verifiable facts, or even an explanation for your position, you launch a personal attack against the individual who disagrees with you??? That's sad. Really sad.

I explained how CPU loading works. How it is measured in CPU utilization in percentage. How you can see the loading in Process Explorer. How temperatures affect stability, not loading. You explained nothing. You just make a statement and expect everyone to take it as the Gospel truth without even attempting to explain, defend with facts, or substantiate with any links.

This is a technical forum. We need technical facts. Opinions are fine when opinions are due. But we're talking the Laws of Physics and digital electronics here. Not subjective opinions.

@s0uLFir3 - thus far, two SevenGurus have now illustrated clearly that "The workload on a processor doesn't increase just because it's temps increase." DalekOverSeer calls this "pure bs" and defends that position by launching personal attacks and calling people names. It is your call who's advice you want to follow, but to me, DeaconFrost's last post above is spot on.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Sep 2011   #36

Windows 7 Ultimate x64

WOW. First of all, I am really sorry for the really late reply, I was out of station and I just got back like 3 days back and I just read the thread!
So I am really sorry for no reply to anyone!
But, I have a good news! \=D/
My Temps and load are JUST perfect now.
Now, lemme explain how it happened.

1st I got myself an aftermarket cooler, that is the Corsair H60!
AMAZING COOLER. I highly suggest it!
So, I put in my H60 (really easy to put! trust me!) and check the temps, they did fall but they were still above 50 degrees and the load was still high so I was like WTF! :|
But then I thought what if it's a virus, I just decided to format windows!
Then I formatted windows and installed a few drivers (including my Mamba drivers!)
Before installing the drivers, I checked the temps, all were about 25 - 30 degrees! So I was really happy and I installed all the drivers and restarted, (I had only installed a few important motherboard drivers and Mamba drivers!) and what I see is my temps are high again and so is my load! I got really frustrated! But then I got thinking what could be the problem, and just to try my luck, I uninstall the Mamba drivers and BOOM! NORMAL!
Everything! Normal!
So I guess there are some problems with the Razer Mamba 2012 Drivers. Because the same thing happened to my friend, so after I told him how my PC got fine, he deleted his Mamba drivers, his PC also went back to normal!

So now I am just really happy that it's all good noww!

I am always b/w 30 - 34/35 and on 100% Load, I get like 55 degrees maximum! So it's just amazing!
The Load is generally below 3%.

Really! Thank you soo much everyone for the help!
Really appreciated! Everyone!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Sep 2011   #37

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1

The H60 is one of the all-in-one water coolers, right? How easy was it to install?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Sep 2011   #38

Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Yeah, that is what it is!
It's very easy! Just put the back plate, then screw the heat sink on top, (thumb screws! ), then just put the radiator and the fan together where you want to!
And that is it!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Sep 2011   #39
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1

I will use my simple brain and put it simple.
Work load makes a GPU/CPU get hotter. (That is why we have cooling.)
Heat does not make a GPU/CPU work harder.
Over heating can destroy either and or both.
My System SpecsSystem Spec

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