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Windows 7: Really Important.


04 Aug 2011   #1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 
Really Important.

Hello guys. I have an Intel Core i7 930 CPU running at stock settings and with a stock cooler.

Till like a week back, the CPU Temps used to be 35 - 45 idle and 75 - 85 at load. But suddenly, last week they became like 60 - 80 and the load with no application/file open wouldn't go below 10 - 15%. I have 6GB Ram.

Please help. If I play any game that I want to, the load goes up to 60 - 70% and the CPU Temp goes to up till 100.

Really Important.-desk.png



My System SpecsSystem Spec
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04 Aug 2011   #2

windows 7 pro
 
 

might the dust build up on vents, check see if fan/fans running.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Aug 2011   #3

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Check for dust as mentioned, make sure the HSF fan is spinning properly, and if needed, remove the HSF, clean it with rubbing alcohol (and processor surface as well), then reapply thermal paste. I have always found that the stuff that comes on Intel stock coolers works okay, but you can do better with a $5 tube of something like arctic silver.

Another thing to consider is a new HSF. I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212+ and it keeps the temps down, even under load, without making extra noise.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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05 Aug 2011   #4

Windows 7 Profession 64-bit
 
 

Your temps should have NEVER come near 75-85C in the first place. I get nervous at 60C and you are pushing 25C over that!!! That's scary for a CPU. Assuming no overclocking and the heatsink fan was properly mounted with a proper layer of thermal interface material (TIM), those high temps indicate you have lousy case cooling. The best cooler in the world does no good if all it has is hot air to blow around.

You need to inspect your case for (1) heat trapping dust and (2) adequate front-to-back air flow through the case. If your case supports more or larger fans (120mm or larger) consider enhancing your case cooling. I prefer at least one large fan in front drawing cool air in and at least one large fan in back (in addition to PSU fan) exhausting hot air out. Cases that support an extra large (240mm) "blowhole" fan (an exhaust fan on the top of the case) provides excellent heat removal too.

Quote:
Another thing to consider is a new HSF.
A caution should ALWAYS be given with that advice! Both Intel and AMD make it quite clear in their warranties - their CPUs that come with an OEM supplied heatsink fan (HSF) assembly are packaged, sold, and warrantied as "a unit". Therefore, understand the use of a 3rd party cooler on Intel or AMD CPUs violates the terms of the warranty agreements!

If you don't care about your 3 year warranty, then no problem. But both AMD and Intel care and so they both provide excellent cooling solutions. Some aftermarket coolers are a little quieter, and some may knock a few degrees off the top, but none will drop your temps 25!

Intel and AMD coolers are designed, built, and expected to adequately cool and last. Therefore, they are warrantied for 3 years too. If the AMD or Intel supplied cooler fails, and takes out the CPU with it, both are covered. Most after maker coolers, including the CoolerMaster are only warrantied for 1 year, maybe 2.

NO aftermarket cooler maker will replace your CPU if their failed cooler results in CPU damage.

Therefore, I recommend against using aftermarket coolers, except for extreme enthusiasts who don't care about their warranties, or those seeking "silent running" for HTPCs - and only when the user is fully aware of the consequences.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2011   #5

Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2
 
 

Can anyone show me one instance of either Intel or AMD rejecting a warranty claim solely because the person used an aftermarket heat sink?

Their warranty restrictions are merely legal protection against people who don't properly cool their CPU processor. They could phrase it a little more honestly by saying "we won't honor the warranty if the failure is due to overheating", but they are afraid that might cost them sales. The cooler they include is merely protection against the ignorant person who would buy a bare processor, not cool it at all, then claim that they "didn't know".

For that matter, does anyone here know anyone who has ever put in a warranty claim on a CPU for reasons other than DOA? If a system is running at all, but still having problems, the CPU itself is one of the last places I'd look.
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05 Aug 2011   #6

Windows 7 Profession 64-bit
 
 

Quote:
Can anyone show me one instance of either Intel or AMD rejecting a warranty claim solely because the person used an aftermarket heat sink?
That is not the point. That's like saying it is okay to reuse OEM Windows on a new computer because MS will never know. It is not okay. It is illegal.

But that said there are many like me who support hardware for a living who have been asked by AMD and Intel tech support if,
(1) Was the OEM fan used?
(2) Was TIM properly used?
(3) Was the processor overclocked?
I am not going to lie to them. I could lose my business, and my freedom. There certainly have been RMA requests denied, at least during the 2nd and 3rd year of the warranties that I personally know of. Common? No. Are AMD and Intel usually gracious about it? Yes. But again, not the point.

I note too motherboards often come with overclocking capabilities built in to the motherboard and they include overclocking software too. But guess what? Neither ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, BioStar - none of them will pay to replace your CPU or RAM if the motherboard fails catastrophically and takes them out too.

Quote:
Their warranty restrictions are merely legal protection against people who don't properly cool their CPU processor. They could phrase it a little more honestly by saying "we won't honor the warranty if the failure is due to overheating", but they are afraid that might cost them sales. The cooler they include is merely protection against the ignorant person who would buy a bare processor, not cool it at all, then claim that they "didn't know".
No that is not right. The cooler they include is to (1) protect the CPU and (2) protect the makers from unwarranted RMAs. Because the CPU is warrantied for 3 years, and because neither AMD nor Intel want to replace the CPU under warranty, they provide a fully capable cooler.

And because they are sold as a unit, they know the HSF is matched to that CPU. They have absolutely no control over the alternatives.

Again, you can buy an OEM CPU if you want - cheaper, and without a fan. Or you can choose to use a 3rd party fan if you wish. But it is not fair to "modify" a product then expect the maker to fully cover the modified product when they have absolutely no control over the modifications. Consumers have Rights, but so do manufacturers.

Understand, please, everyone - I am just the messenger! Whether I agree with Intel or AMD is not the point. What is the point is our responsibility as advisors on this site to ensure our readers know the facts. And the facts are clear - using 3rd party coolers on retail, boxed versions of AMD and Intel CPUs violates the terms of the warranties.

If you use a 3rd party cooler, and you are not forthcoming with that information, and instead decide to withhold that information, that is deception. And deception for profit or personal gain, at the the expense of another party, is fraud, a criminal offense.

I think most of our readers prefer to be honest, rather than deceitful - even if it cost them more. We cannot fight spam, malware, software piracy, then condone other fraudulent activity.

Things might be totally different if the OEM supplied coolers were not fully capable and efficient - often not the case many years ago. But today's supplied coolers are excellent coolers, designed to last.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2011   #7

Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2
 
 

...
Quote:
Their warranty restrictions are merely legal protection against people who don't properly cool their CPU processor. They could phrase it a little more honestly by saying "we won't honor the warranty if the failure is due to overheating", but they are afraid that might cost them sales. The cooler they include is merely protection against the ignorant person who would buy a bare processor, not cool it at all, then claim that they "didn't know".
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Digerati View Post
No that is not right. The cooler they include is to (1) protect the CPU and (2) protect the makers from unwarranted RMAs. Because the CPU is warrantied for 3 years, and because neither AMD nor Intel want to replace the CPU under warranty, they provide a fully capable cooler.

And because they are sold as a unit, they know the HSF is matched to that CPU. They have absolutely no control over the alternatives...
How does this stop Joe Noob from installing it improperly? What about forgetting to plug the fan in? Remember when a lot of CPUs came with the heatsink permanently attached? If what you are posting made sense they would still do that today, since it's the only way to ensure that the heatsink works as intended.

I agree with you in principle and would never advocate that anyone lie to get themselves off the hook for something. I think the distinction here is to separate language written by lawyers to protect legal rights from the "common sense" application of the intent of the policy. Car companies tried to pad their bottom line by requiring that all maintenance (including things such as a simple oil change) be performed at the dealer. Every time this was tested in court the car companies lost. I'd bet that if a CPU manufacturer tried voiding a warranty for a CPU which had a flaw similar to the old Pentium Bug just because the end user used a better heatsink than the one provided it would get laughed out of court. Someone with your experience knows what a fried CPU looks like. I don't think you're going to get your warranty honored in that case no matter what story you tell them and no matter whose heatsink you had attached - including the OEM one.

If your point is merely that any heatsink other than the one which comes with the CPU is in technical violation of the warranty agreement then I will accept that for the sake of not belaboring a point. I think you have made the point that that is your position quite emphatically several times now - we get it.

To get back to s0uLFir3's original problem, if the CPU never drops below 10-15% CPU usage I would see what processes you might have running behind your back. 10-15% isn't going to account for 60-80 degrees all by itself, but it's not normal.

And I would definitely check the fan. Assuming the fan is running properly, what power plan are you using? What about power settings in the BIOS?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2011   #8

Windows 7 Profession 64-bit
 
 

Quote:
How does this stop Joe Noob from installing it improperly?
It doesn't. And if you called up AMD and said, I goofed, I did this wrong, then no problem! Or if you called up AMD and told them upfront you used a Zalman cooler, then no problem.

The issue, as you note, is the legal one. If you buy any product, you agree to the terms of the warranty if you decide to use the product. If you decide to use the product in a manner that violates stated terms of the warranty, then the maker has NO obligation or liability to you, and should not be expected to replace the product under warranty.

Withholding pertinent information is no better than flat out lying, and when done to deceive for financial or personal gains, it's fraud. So MY POINT is, as providers of information, as individuals, and as a site, it is our job to keep readers legal, as it is to keep them and their computers safe and sound. It is counter to our jobs to help people become badguys, knowingly or not.

Quote:
Car companies tried to pad their bottom line by requiring that all maintenance (including things such as a simple oil change) be performed at the dealer.
Yes that is true. But this is different. Your example is more in line with those stupid Void if Damaged stickers unscrupulous makers put on cases. You have the Right to upgrade your RAM, or add a hard drive, and you have a responsibility to keep the interior clean of heat trapping dust. Therefore, you have the Right to open the case and gain access - those stickers mean nothing in that case. However, there are "No User Serviceable Parts Inside" a PSU, for example. So a void sticker on a PSU is valid. The only time those stickers would be legal on a PC is if the builder provided 100% of the maintenance - to include adding parts from elsewhere, and periodic cleaning - free of charge, AND in a timely basis.

On a car, the user is REQUIRED to perform routine maintenance on the car, including oil and filter changes. And rightfully so, you should be able to do that in your back yard. But in those cases, filters and oil MUST meet or exceed approved SAE etc. "industry" standards. There are no such standards for HSF assemblies. Plus, the car maintenance must be done right. If you strip the threads, that's on your. If you fail to tighten the drain plug, that's on you.

But if you decide to change a major component, the cam shaft for example, don't expect the engine warranty to still be valid.

Bottom line is this: Regardless how we feel about the policy, and regardless how AMD and Intel have behaved in the past, the terms of the warranties are clear, and legal. And the makers have every Right to exercise them. And most importantly, those coming here seeking advice have a Right to hear the ALL the facts, good and bad - especially those that may involve legal issues. I note Ignorantia juris non excusat.

Quote:
If your point is merely that any heatsink other than the one which comes with the CPU is in technical violation of the warranty agreement then I will accept that for the sake of not belaboring a point. I think you have made the point that that is your position quite emphatically several times now - we get it.
That was my point indeed. Sadly, not everyone accepted it, even when faced with irrefutable evidence from two separate, reliable sources. Hopefully all do "get it" now, so we can finally move on to poor s0uLFir3's original problem.

@s0uLFir3 - I notice you live in India, so this is Summer there too. Note extreme ambient (your room) temperatures can have an adverse affect on the internal temperatures of your case. If your case is not providing adequate air flow through the case, you may need to add more case fans or open the side panel and blast a desk fan in there. Or, use the computer at night or early morning when room temperatures drop.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2011   #9

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
 
 

i would get a can of air and spray the vents and were the fan is..... and if you want open it up and spray some air.. that might be all it needs..
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Aug 2011   #10

Main - Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-Bit; 2nd - Windows Server 2008 R2
 
 

Don't you think the same legal principles which make the "Void if Damaged stickers" "stupid" (and unenforceable) would also count with a heat sink? After all, no one is cracking open the CPU to change it.

As for the RAM upgrade, etc, the principle still holds true. If I try to jam my brand new stick of DDR3 in there backwards and crack the RAM slot, do you think I'm still covered? What if I need DDR2 and cut a notch in a stick of DDR3 so it will fit? How about if I use the correct RAM, insert it properly, but don't bother to shut the computer off while I install it? I have worked on computers where all of those things have happened.

Honestly, if you use a quality replacement and install it properly I think you will not have any troubles. Nor should you. I know there are plenty of isolated examples to the contrary, (spill hot coffee in your lap and sue because you got burned....), but all but the very worst of companies would not try to hose their customers over in any reasonable situation. Warranties are written with narrow definitions like this to protect the company from widespread problems due to the abuse of their product. They have a lot of built-in leeway to allow the company to make "exceptions" where the customer has done nothing wrong. Would you consider replacing the OEM heatsink with a properly installed quality upgrade to be "wrong". Common sense still counts for something.

Back to our thread starter, I would recommend checking all of the things mentioned previously, including fan, power settings, and ambient temperature. I would also see what process(es) might be using your CPU when it should be idle.
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