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Windows 7: disk defragmentation and DisKeeper

20 Aug 2011   #11
GeneO

Windows 10 Pro. EFI boot partition, full EFI boot
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by karlsnooks View Post
If the information is NOT correct, then someone needs to talk to Microsoft.

Please read the article referenced by the link.

Please note the last revision date.

Please note the "Applies to" section.
They implied in thee article what versions of the OS it applied to. Don't go by the review (not revision) date - from what I have observed it is meaningless.

You are correct, they need to be more clear. Usually MS explicitly says what OS and versions the KB article applies to, sometimes they are not so clear.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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20 Aug 2011   #12
karlsnooks

MS Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

To me the Applies To section and the revision date is extremely clear.

Maybe someone would like to post a question with the DisKeeeper folks regarding the accuracy of this Microsoft KB article.

For me the question is merely academic as I use CONFIG.
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20 Aug 2011   #13
GeneO

Windows 10 Pro. EFI boot partition, full EFI boot
 
 

Well I could be wrong about tyhe diskeeper hritage of Windows 7
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20 Aug 2011   #14
karlsnooks

MS Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

and I could be wrong. That has been known to happen.
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21 Aug 2011   #15
maxseven

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 6.1 Build 7601 (SP1)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GeneO View Post
Using defraggler will eat up your system restore point shadow space. It is not VSS aware...
I wonder if you can elaborate on this? It seems to me Defraggler is touted by Piriform as being "perfectly safe, uses Windows file copy methods blah blah" and I don't recall any caveats in there.

I like Restore Points myself; they've saved my bunions more than once. But I've had them become corrupted once in a while. So now I can add Defraggler to my list of programs that can hose them-up, along with a couple of Uninstaller programs I've tried?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Aug 2011   #16
GeneO

Windows 10 Pro. EFI boot partition, full EFI boot
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by maxseven View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GeneO View Post
Using defraggler will eat up your system restore point shadow space. It is not VSS aware...
I wonder if you can elaborate on this? It seems to me Defraggler is touted by Piriform as being "perfectly safe, uses Windows file copy methods blah blah" and I don't recall any caveats in there.

I like Restore Points myself; they've saved my bunions more than once. But I've had them become corrupted once in a while. So now I can add Defraggler to my list of programs that can hose them-up, along with a couple of Uninstaller programs I've tried?
Lost free space after aborting defragment - Piriform Community Forums

Features of the Windows Vista hard disk defragmentation utility
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Aug 2011   #17
GeneO

Windows 10 Pro. EFI boot partition, full EFI boot
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by maxseven View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GeneO View Post
Using defraggler will eat up your system restore point shadow space. It is not VSS aware...
I wonder if you can elaborate on this? It seems to me Defraggler is touted by Piriform as being "perfectly safe, uses Windows file copy methods blah blah" and I don't recall any caveats in there.

I like Restore Points myself; they've saved my bunions more than once. But I've had them become corrupted once in a while. So now I can add Defraggler to my list of programs that can hose them-up, along with a couple of Uninstaller programs I've tried?
Defraggler - Windows Vista and volume shadow copies

Lost free space after aborting defragment - Piriform Community Forums

Features of the Windows Vista hard disk defragmentation utility
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Aug 2011   #18
karlsnooks

MS Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

gene,
For Windows Vista, then one must be cautious.

I have posted a question in their forum re Defraggler and Win 7. I have not received an answer.

If you can get a direct answer from Piriform directly on this matter, then I'd be grateful.

As said for Vista, true, but I've not found a statement re Win 7.
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21 Aug 2011   #19
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

I remember reading back with Vista that Diskeeper was the same as MS defragger but with many more features and enhancements.
Although, I didn't put much wieght into it.


I know we all have our own opinion and prefrences, but I do think 3rd party defragmenters do a better job overall.

But, I've always found Raxco's PerfectDisc to be just right for my needs and prefer it over Diskeeper.
Plus its MS certified & a gold partner which is a good thing IMHO.
It also manages SSDs with a optimize feature, but Diskeeper also has a similar feature.


But to be completely fair, I tried out PD and Diskeeper a long time ago. Ended up choosing PD and have stuck with them, ever since.
So my experience with other defrag software is very limited.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Aug 2011   #20
maxseven

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 6.1 Build 7601 (SP1)
 
 

This is all pretty mysterious, and frankly appalling if MS Defrag itself has potential to destroy Restore Points--a lot of people (myself included) rely on these. I think in the Piriform forum was referred http://support.microsoft.com/kb/312067 wherein is stated the following:

Quote:
The System Shadow Copy provider uses a copy-on-write mechanism that operates at a 16-KB block level. This is independent of the file system's cluster allocation unit size. If the file system's cluster size is smaller than 16 KB, the System Shadow Copy provider cannot easily determine that disk defragmentation I/O is different from typical write I/O, and performs a copy-on-write operation. This might cause the Shadow Copy storage area to grow very quickly. If the storage area reaches its user-defined limit, the oldest shadow copies are deleted first
It's from 2007, and at top it says "may not apply to your OS" (W7 running here).

So I'm not sure what to think about all this because it seems that if the simple solution were to stop the Volume Shadow Copy service, run the defrag, then restart VSCS, well Piriform would have incorporated this already?

EDIT: Oops here's another quote about Vista (VSS aware):

Quote:
In shadow-copy-aware defragmentation, defragmentation uses Volume Shadow Copy Service (VSS) in-box software to optimize defragmentation. The VSS software minimizes copy-on-write change blocks. Shadow-copy-aware optimization slows down filling the difference area. This kind of optimization also slows down the reclaiming of old snapshots during defragmentation.
So maybe this is not so mysterious after all, unless Piriform hasn't figured this out yet.
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