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Windows 7: Should I defragment my (18% fragmented) SSD?

05 Dec 2011   #11
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Well there you have it.... from multiple sources, at two sites


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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05 Dec 2011   #12
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Windows (7) will usually automatically turn off Defrag when the SSD drive is detected by running WEI.
I think it is actually the Win7 installer when it detects a zero rotation disk. Sometimes SSDs show only a WEI with a 5.x value - e.g. when they are not well aligned. I wonder how running the WEI would handle that.

Then there is also the case where you install the OS with an image on the SSD. In that case you are on your own.

An alternate way to stop the defrag is to stop the defrag service in Services. You should only know that then you cannot shrink a partition. Parts of the desfrag service are needed for shrinking.
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05 Dec 2011   #13
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
An alternate way to stop the defrag is to stop the defrag service in Services. You should only know that then you cannot shrink a partition. Parts of the desfrag service are needed for shrinking.
I think you are likely to have spinning drives as well and would think going into the disk defrag scheduler was the easiest way to deal with the mix. If the defrag schedule for the SSD has been automatically turned off then that's fine.
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05 Dec 2011   #14
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Windows (7) will usually automatically turn off Defrag when the SSD drive is detected by running WEI.
I think it is actually the Win7 installer when it detects a zero rotation disk. Sometimes SSDs show only a WEI with a 5.x value - e.g. when they are not well aligned. I wonder how running the WEI would handle that.
I'm too lazy to look for it right now but I thought I read somewhere on OCZ forums that said running WEI "automatically" enables/disable certain things for their drives. I could be wrong.

Let's not forget that WEI is also used to detect hardware, so in a sense using WEI will enable/disable certain functions of hardware since it has detected the type of hardware in use - in this case an SSD drive.

Quote:
The backbone for the Windows Experience Index scores comes from the same new technology built into Windows Vista that enables it to scale, called Windows System Assessment Tools (WinSAT). These tools run tests that discover and assess the performance characteristics and capabilities of a PC. Based on this data, Windows Vista "scales" itself, thereby optimizing the user experience and feature level it delivers for a given computer. The WinSAT data is also available via the Win32 API in order to enable software vendors and internal developers to take advantage of WinSAT data in order to develop software which determines the optimal application settings based on that system's performance capabilities and scale itself.
Windows Experience Index: Overview - though this is talking about Vista, 7 basically works the same way. Anyway that's the way I see it but....

At any rate I found this, which also says defrag should be off - SSD Tips and Tweaks | OCZ Technology
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05 Dec 2011   #15
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Thanks for the info Drew - interesting.

mjf, most of my SSDs are on laptops. So no problem with spinners.
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05 Dec 2011   #16
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Windows (7) will usually automatically turn off Defrag when the SSD drive is detected by running WEI.
I think it is actually the Win7 installer when it detects a zero rotation disk. Sometimes SSDs show only a WEI with a 5.x value - e.g. when they are not well aligned. I wonder how running the WEI would handle that.
I'm too lazy to look for it right now but I thought I read somewhere on OCZ forums that said running WEI "automatically" enables/disable certain things for their drives. I could be wrong.

Let's not forget that WEI is also used to detect hardware, so in a sense using WEI will enable/disable certain functions of hardware since it has detected the type of hardware in use - in this case an SSD drive.

Quote:
The backbone for the Windows Experience Index scores comes from the same new technology built into Windows Vista that enables it to scale, called Windows System Assessment Tools (WinSAT). These tools run tests that discover and assess the performance characteristics and capabilities of a PC. Based on this data, Windows Vista "scales" itself, thereby optimizing the user experience and feature level it delivers for a given computer. The WinSAT data is also available via the Win32 API in order to enable software vendors and internal developers to take advantage of WinSAT data in order to develop software which determines the optimal application settings based on that system's performance capabilities and scale itself.
Windows Experience Index: Overview - though this is talking about Vista, 7 basically works the same way. Anyway that's the way I see it but....

At any rate I found this, which also says defrag should be off - SSD Tips and Tweaks | OCZ Technology
That is what I saw on the OCZ forums. WEI supposedly forces the os to recognize you have an SSD.
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05 Dec 2011   #17
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Yeah thats the way I read that too. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who saw that statement.

Thanks
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06 Dec 2011   #18
Mr Bass

Windows 7 Home Premuim 64 bit custom build. XP Professional on other studio machines.
 
 

Hi, Have just popped in a SSD drive for my boot drive and o.s and software.

I cloned my old O.S and software so............................

Is it safe to run the following tweak tools I have paid for when I used to have a spinney disk as the C drive ..lol

Diskeeper Pro Premier 2011 with Hyperfast ; it uses a spech tool for SSD drives to optimise them I would NEVER defrag the drive.... I need a tool like this to degrag my external non SSD drives as the music files are huge and get messed up Diskeeper is set to hyperfast on C which does not defrag but optimises it.

Also I use a tool to clean the machine... System Mechanic Pro... at the mo its say my reg is fragd ... I guess this is a no.. no too as my C drive is SSD ... This was a good tweak tool to keep the system running fine... I never used the defrag on this but diskeeper was much better but did not tidy up the registry and so on.

How do I know Win 7 has trim kicked in.. if I have cloned my old O.S from a spinney wheel?

I guess I need to do a few things to the system now... I had a look at the SSD tweaks from 2010 on this forum.. but got totally lost as it was a bit full on for me to all take in...

I would be grateful for some simple advice as I'm not to savvy at getting under the bonnet with win 7 its new to me.

What do we do about the reg being frag'd if we use SSD as main boot drive etc...

Sorry for stupid questions..

Thanks in advance... oh wise ones.. ;-)
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06 Dec 2011   #19
Hopalong X

Windows7 Pro 64bit SP-1; Windows XP Pro 32bit
 
 

Quote:
Diskeeper 2011 Pro Premier will:
  • Cure and prevent performance-robbing fragmentation so your PC is always fast.
  • Provide additional defrag power to eliminate rapid fragmentation build-up.
  • Handle high-traffic volumes with millions of fragments fast.
  • Increase the speed and performance of your PC by an average of 32%.
  • Use less resources (memory) than with any other defragmenter on the market.
  • Speed up PC Boot-up and Backup by an average of 25%.
  • Allow for faster Web Browsing, Applications, Games and so much more.
  • Increase file access speeds – by as much as 80%.
  • Increase the longevity of your hard drive, so it lasts up to 3 years longer.
  • Consolidate free space – so your files can be written side-by-side.
  • Provide greatest I/O savings ever available – for the fastest read and write times.
  • Prevent fragmentation-related PC slows, lags and crashes.
  • Give you historical performance tracking - making it easy to quantify your savings.
  • Reduce file corruption and data loss by an average of 25%.
That is a defrag software.
Please do not use it on an SSD.
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06 Dec 2011   #20
Hopalong X

Windows7 Pro 64bit SP-1; Windows XP Pro 32bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Hopalong X View Post
NO! NO! NO!

NEVER EVER defrag an SSD.

The SSD is not fragmented. It appears fragmented to Disk defrag because the defragger is made for reading HDD's/spinners not SSD's.

The controller in the SSD places the files where it can access them the quickest and to prevent excess wear and tear.

The SSD controller does its' own internal "defragging/clean up" in its own way. TRIM is one of those clean up processes.
iolo System Mechanic Professional® - Fix, speed up, secure, and maintain your PC

That would be nice possibly on Win XP on a spinner.
Totally unnecessary on Win 7 or an SSD.

Definitely stay away from the defragger. Do not even check the fragmentation with it.

My Windows 7 will not even allow the built in Windows 7 defragger to be opened on the SSD.

Read above what I posted.
All defraggers will show an SSD fragmented.
They are made for HDD's/spinners only and should be marked that way.
Unfortunately they are not.
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 Should I defragment my (18% fragmented) SSD?




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