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Windows 7: 8-Core, overclocked machine slow...

13 Nov 2012   #31

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote:
Well, the OS is x64, and I think the MB is too. Would that cause troubles because of the missing stick?
Nope. The mobo doesn't care of OS architecture (the processor does, but even my prehistoric one can support x64 OS).
And the OS has only a lower and max ram limit ( x64 Windows 7 needs around 2 GB to run, but makes no sense to install it if you have less than 3 GB anyway)

There is something called "dual channel" memory usage, which generally does favor having a even number of ram sticks from the same manufacturer as it basically puts the rams in a RAID.

Check your mobo manual about this. I've seen some that manage to run dual-channel with paired rams AND single-channel with the odd lone ram stick.

Won't make a huge performance difference, around 5% in running very memory intensive tasks.

Quote:
The sticks I'm using are labeled as: 1866MHz, Corsair said the DRAM speed should be set at 1600 for my CPU. I bought them as a set of four from Amazon. I do not understand why it's showing at 400, or even 667.
Is that a reading from the BIOS? Try going in the bios and set them manually at 1600 or if it doesn't work set them to 1333, also check their required voltage (manufacturer's site) and adjust it from the bios as needed, sometimes they require more voltage than what the BIOS thinks.

Quote:
It appears that XP Pro is only seeing a single processor. I'm want to wait until I get all the updates, but the Windows [XP] update part of Microsoft is having errors, so I think I'm stuck on SP1 for now...
What the virtual machine sees isn't an indication, see by task manager of the host machine if the cores you assigned are working. I know that issue with updates, it is murderously annoying. Google around and you'll find plenty of possible solutions (it can be caused by various different things). The best solution is getting a XP disk with SP2 already on it.
I tend to like VirtualBox as the VM program.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

13 Nov 2012   #32

Windows 7 Ultimate x64/Windows 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote:
Well, the OS is x64, and I think the MB is too. Would that cause troubles because of the missing stick?
Nope. The mobo doesn't care of OS architecture (the processor does, but even my prehistoric one can support x64 OS).
And the OS has only a lower and max ram limit ( x64 Windows 7 needs around 2 GB to run, but makes no sense to install it if you have less than 3 GB anyway)

There is something called "dual channel" memory usage, which generally does favor having a even number of ram sticks from the same manufacturer as it basically puts the rams in a RAID.

Check your mobo manual about this. I've seen some that manage to run dual-channel with paired rams AND single-channel with the odd lone ram stick.

Won't make a huge performance difference, around 5% in running very memory intensive tasks.

Quote:
The sticks I'm using are labeled as: 1866MHz, Corsair said the DRAM speed should be set at 1600 for my CPU. I bought them as a set of four from Amazon. I do not understand why it's showing at 400, or even 667.
Is that a reading from the BIOS? Try going in the bios and set them manually at 1600 or if it doesn't work set them to 1333, also check their required voltage (manufacturer's site) and adjust it from the bios as needed, sometimes they require more voltage than what the BIOS thinks.

Quote:
It appears that XP Pro is only seeing a single processor. I'm want to wait until I get all the updates, but the Windows [XP] update part of Microsoft is having errors, so I think I'm stuck on SP1 for now...
What the virtual machine sees isn't an indication, see by task manager of the host machine if the cores you assigned are working. I know that issue with updates, it is murderously annoying. Google around and you'll find plenty of possible solutions (it can be caused by various different things). The best solution is getting a XP disk with SP2 already on it.
I tend to like VirtualBox as the VM program.
Feeling lazy tonight, so I'm not seperating the quotes:

The motherboard is Dual Channel, which is why I thought I had to do pairs. The motherboard does support single channel operations. I will pull the last stick, and see what happens.

I set the DRAM manually to 1600 per Corsair before testing each stick by itself. As far as required voltage, I will go and check the site, but considering 3 of them tested fine, I feel confident that the board detects the fine.

I removed the assignments on the VM, during the install, Core 7 was pegged at 100% and the thing was like installing XP on a low end 386. The little bit of time I've tried running XP, it BARELY put any load on my [real] CPU. It told me I had a 7% processor load with both running, but doing very little. Between the RamDrive, Windows 7, and Windows XP, I was using 55% of my 16 Gigs of Ram.

I'm running VirtualBox on Windows 7 and my MacBook and both have an update that can be installed, just havn't done it yet. My problems with the VM will be posted in a new thread...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Nov 2012   #33

Windows 7 Ultimate x64/Windows 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

Update:

I called Corsair [again] and they wanted to check things first. We checked my settings, and he said 1.49 was a little low for voltage with 4 sticks, and to raise it up to 1.65 [which I did] and the rest of the settings were OK. I ran MemTest past 10% without errors [unlike before] so I told him I would run it overnight, after using the computer the rest of the day. He said if I get a BSOD, or it fails the test [and he wanted at least 3 passes] they would replace it.

We left, leaving the computer on. While out, I had a BSOD. I ran the test while I tried to sleep, and it appeared to be the third time through before it started finding errors.

I called Corsair [yet again] and they wanted to try more things. I said I just wanted to advance exchange it. The new memory is on it's way...

First, I want to thank x BlueRobot, and Bobafetthotmail [I added to your reps] for their time/knowledge.

Second, do I mark this as solved? I started this thread on a performance issue, and we ended up solving a memory/BSOD issue. I don't KNOW if they are related/solved.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.


16 Nov 2012   #34

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

EDIT: Don't mark it solved until you get a stable system.

Put two matched RAM cards in the blue slots and the other card in the black slot. This is the recommendation from your motherboard manual.
When you're running memtest86+ and you see a % of a test, that is one of several tests it runs in a single pass. Each pass runs different tests and it will run indefinitely. The number of passes is in the statistics row, which is just above the 'Red' errors (if you have errors).

Can you download CPUZ and post a snip of the CPU, Mainboard, Memory, and SPD tabs.
For posting the information , enter 'Snipping tool' in the Start button > Search box, hit enter. Select the area you want to post and save to a convenient place.
How to Post a Screenshot in Seven Forums
Go to your BIOS and tell us what the CPU, RAM and the CPU integrated memory controller voltages (Should be CPU/NB voltage for your motherboard) are.
Usually you need to bump the IMC and the DRAM for 16GB RAM.

EDIT:
Just saw your last post.
You should let me know what the IMC voltage is set at, I have adjusted a lot of RAM with good results, sometimes they will become stable with a IMC and DRAM voltage bump, but usually not with only one or the other.


Are you still running the RAMDrive?

What SSD do you have?
You really don't have to worry about writes to a SSD. The rumors about them being fragile are grossly exaggerated.
Check this thread, these guys are running non-stop writes to several SSDs to see when they fail.
SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm
The graphs on the first page are out of date and only cover some of the first SSDs that started the tesing.
The average desktop user writes between 7-10 GB worth of information per day, check the total writes these guys are getting.
For example the Samsung 830 256GB.
Quote:
Samsung 830 256GB Day 237

(GiB) 5,887,996
(TiB) 5,749
(PiB) 5.65
These are the total writes so far, and it's still going.

5,887,996 GiB = 6,361,334 GB
5,749 TiB = 6,362 TB
5.65 PiB = 6.36 PB

Even if you figure 100GB per day it's 174 years.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Nov 2012   #35

Windows 7 Ultimate x64/Windows 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
EDIT: Don't mark it solved until you get a stable system.

Put two matched RAM cards in the blue slots and the other card in the black slot. This is the recommendation from your motherboard manual.
When you're running memtest86+ and you see a % of a test, that is one of several tests it runs in a single pass. Each pass runs different tests and it will run indefinitely. The number of passes is in the statistics row, which is just above the 'Red' errors (if you have errors).
I moved the stick back to a black slot. The rest I knew/understand. I stopped the test after 10% because of the time it takes, and my kids were coming home from school, and one of them would want to be on the computer. It would be better for this household to run the test all night.

Note: INTERESTING... Before writing this response, I shutdown a large [LONG] operation, then started over after moving the stick back to it's origional location [Farthest from the CPU] and the time remaining on the operation is MUCH lower than before [by AT LEAST 30%, AND it's running over my network. [I think it will make a 100GIG file by the time it's done...]

Quote:
Can you download CPUZ and post a snip of the CPU, Mainboard, Memory, and SPD tabs.
For posting the information , enter 'Snipping tool' in the Start button > Search box, hit enter. Select the area you want to post and save to a convenient place.
How to Post a Screenshot in Seven Forums
Go to your BIOS and tell us what the CPU, RAM and the CPU integrated memory controller voltages (Should be CPU/NB voltage for your motherboard) are.
Usually you need to bump the IMC and the DRAM for 16GB RAM.

EDIT:
Just saw your last post.
You should let me know what the IMC voltage is set at, I have adjusted a lot of RAM with good results, sometimes they will become stable with a IMC and DRAM voltage bump, but usually not with only one or the other.
Name:  CPU.PNG
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Quote:
Are you still running the RAMDrive?
Yes. I do wonder if I am getting a performance boost from it...[and yes, I know it will be unseen if it is, but I can afford the memory]

Quote:
What SSD do you have?
You really don't have to worry about writes to a SSD. The rumors about them being fragile are grossly exaggerated.
Check this thread, these guys are running non-stop writes to several SSDs to see when they fail.
SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm
The graphs on the first page are out of date and only cover some of the first SSDs that started the tesing.
The average desktop user writes between 7-10 GB worth of information per day, check the total writes these guys are getting.
For example the Samsung 830 256GB.
Quote:
Samsung 830 256GB Day 237

(GiB) 5,887,996
(TiB) 5,749
(PiB) 5.65
These are the total writes so far, and it's still going.

5,887,996 GiB = 6,361,334 GB
5,749 TiB = 6,362 TB
5.65 PiB = 6.36 PB

Even if you figure 100GB per day it's 174 years.
This is the drive I bought from Amazon: Amazon.com: OCZ Vertex 2 120 GB SATA II 2.5" Solid State Drive (OCZSSD2-2VTXE120G): Electronics

I admits it...I messed up and didn't look at which SATA ver it was. I SHOULDA gotten a FASTER drive...


My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Nov 2012   #36

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Sometimes just re-seating the RAM cards will solve problems.
With 16GB RAM you will probably need to bump the IMC (Integrated Memory Controller, in your BIOS it's CPU/NB Voltage) and DRAM voltage.
For the IMC use the 'CPU/NB Offset Voltage' this will allow any speed control functions to still work. The IMC needs more voltage when running 4 RAM cards or more than 4-8GB RAM.

Change the CPU & NB Voltage mode to ‘Offset’.
CPU/NB Offset Voltage to 1.20v, select the offset voltage of +0.100v if the current setting is 1.100v.
DRAM Voltage change to 1.550v.
Save & Exit BIOS.
These are conservative increases, but should be stable, if not we can bump them a little more.

Test the setting by running memtest86+ for 7 full passes, best to run overnight.
If you get any errors you can stop the test and let me know.

Update your BIOS to version 1501, there are two update since 1202 both are for 'Improve system stability'.

I wouldn't bother with the RAMDrive, it was intended to speed up HDDs, your SSD should be fast enough on it's own.
Yes, a SATA 6Gb/s SSD would be better but the 3Gb/s should be fast.
If/when you upgrade, my personal preference, avoid SSDs with the SandForce controller. Too many problems.
Check at the OCZ site for a firmware update, install if not current, all the info you need is on their site.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Nov 2012   #37

Windows 7 Ultimate x64/Windows 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
Sometimes just re-seating the RAM cards will solve problems.
With 16GB RAM you will probably need to bump the IMC (Integrated Memory Controller, in your BIOS it's CPU/NB Voltage) and DRAM voltage.
For the IMC use the 'CPU/NB Offset Voltage' this will allow any speed control functions to still work. The IMC needs more voltage when running 4 RAM cards or more than 4-8GB RAM.

Change the CPU & NB Voltage mode to ‘Offset’.
CPU/NB Offset Voltage to 1.20v, select the offset voltage of +0.100v if the current setting is 1.100v.
DRAM Voltage change to 1.550v.
Save & Exit BIOS.
These are conservative increases, but should be stable, if not we can bump them a little more.

Test the setting by running memtest86+ for 7 full passes, best to run overnight.
If you get any errors you can stop the test and let me know.

Update your BIOS to version 1501, there are two update since 1202 both are for 'Improve system stability'.

I wouldn't bother with the RAMDrive, it was intended to speed up HDDs, your SSD should be fast enough on it's own.
Yes, a SATA 6Gb/s SSD would be better but the 3Gb/s should be fast.
If/when you upgrade, my personal preference, avoid SSDs with the SandForce controller. Too many problems.
Check at the OCZ site for a firmware update, install if not current, all the info you need is on their site.
I have memory being shipped to replace what I have. As long as the machine don't crash every 10 minutes [Been running for 30 hours straight now] I'm OK.

Then again, making changes to my machine now would be a good time to learn. <Evil Grin> Currently, my DRAM Voltage is 1.65 [per Corsair]

Can you elaborate on the point of the CPU/NB offset voltage? [Start with what is NB?]

I JUST tried to update to the newer BIOS, this is the second one that failed to install. Monday, I am going to call Asus...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Nov 2012   #38

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

CPU/NB is the Integrated Memory Controller (IMC), part of the CPU, it controls the RAM.
Previously the Memory Controller was on the North Bridge (NB).
When you have a lot of RAM installed it is normal to bump the IMC voltage to help the RAM run properly.
This is more important than bumping the DRAM voltage in most cases, surprised Corsair didn't suggest that, they usually do.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
Sometimes just re-seating the RAM cards will solve problems.
With 16GB RAM you will probably need to bump the IMC (Integrated Memory Controller, in your BIOS it's CPU/NB Voltage) and DRAM voltage.
Memory controller

Northbridge (computing)


Your DRAM voltage is probably higher than is necessary, bumping the IMC voltage will let you lower the DRAM voltage.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Nov 2012   #39

Windows 7 Ultimate x64/Windows 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
CPU/NB is the Integrated Memory Controller (IMC), part of the CPU, it controls the RAM.
Previously the Memory Controller was on the North Bridge (NB).
When you have a lot of RAM installed it is normal to bump the IMC voltage to help the RAM run properly.
This is more important than bumping the DRAM voltage in most cases, surprised Corsair didn't suggest that, they usually do.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
Sometimes just re-seating the RAM cards will solve problems.
With 16GB RAM you will probably need to bump the IMC (Integrated Memory Controller, in your BIOS it's CPU/NB Voltage) and DRAM voltage.
Memory controller

Northbridge (computing)


Your DRAM voltage is probably higher than is necessary, bumping the IMC voltage will let you lower the DRAM voltage.
OK, I looked and the current CPU offset is at 1.262 Volts, and the CPU/NB is at 1.250. Both auto-set by the motherboard.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Nov 2012   #40

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Bump the CPU/NB offset to 1.300v.
If it's still not stable, bump the CPU/NB offset to 1.350v.

When you get it stable, lower the DRAM voltage to 1.60v, check for stability. If stable lower the DRAM voltage to 1.550v check for stability.
When it is not stable bump the DRAM voltage up by +0.020v until stable.
Don't go below 1.500v.

A good quick stability test is OCCT.
OCCT stability checking tool
Run the CPU:OCCT test for at least 30 minutes, be sure to monitor your CPU and GPU temps.
Set the time before you start.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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