Alternate IP Address causing Domain connections to drop

Jeffs

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This problem is a little tough to explain, but I'll try. I'd like to find if there is a resolution for it.

The way our company network is set up, we log into a domain. This gives me access to a number of network resources.

As a programmer of embedded equipment, one of the devices I've created can communicate via Ethernet to host systems.

Our network was originally laid out as a 253 system segment at 192.168.10.x (mask of 255.255.255.0) and this network segment has no free space for me to add a number of these controllers onto it since it's filled up almost to it's entirety with systems and servers.

So, I've set these units as addresses in 192.168.0.x, and I've created an alternate IP address on my system as 192.168.0.250, with a mask of 255.255.255.0.

This works, as the IP stack knows which address to send requests out to. If I address something in the 0.x range, the system originates at 0.250, anything else goes out as 10.x. The problem is, my network resources on the domain disappear occasionally, and when I delete the alternate IP address, they come back. I've been using this scheme for quite some time on Windows 2000, and it was never a problem, so something has changed over the years. It seems to work for a while, and then randomly the resources drop out.

Does anyone know why doing this would cause the connection to network resources to just vanish? It would seem that what m doing should work, since it does work. I just need to find the "irritant" that causes the connections to be lost.

Before you suggest we expand our network to support more hosts on the subnet, our IT department has rejected this. They don't want to have to go to every machine in the network (multiple buildings), reset subnet masks on clients and servers, and hope "it all works" after that.
 

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Hey Jeff,
I have a couple of questions. What domain are you working off of? Windows server 2003/2008, linux? I have noticed that things I was able to do on 2000 and XP are not working with 7. That's because 7 is more secure (which I love).

What antivirus program are you running? What type of devices do you have on this other subnet? Where I work we have 2 different subnets that work fine. We had to do a couple of things in the router though to get them do this since we have multiple locations. Let me know about those questions, and I'll see what I can help with.

Thanks,
Sarah
 

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Sarah,

The server(s) on the network are all 2003. The AV is McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.7. Other devices on the subnet the domain is on are the servers, other PCs, print servers. If I connect one of my embedded devices on that subdomain, no problem. It's only when I add an alternate IP to my PC that I loose the network resources.

There are no routers involved in this connectivity scenario. We have only one router leading to the internet, and these connections would not go through that. In fact, when I loose the network resources when the alternate IP is in place, I still have internet connectivity, so I don't loose connectivity to the router, only to the devices on the domain.

Hope this helps. Thanks.
 

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Are you setting it up with v-lans?
 

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Our network was originally laid out as a 253 system segment at 192.168.10.x (mask of 255.255.255.0) and this network segment has no free space for me to add a number of these controllers onto it since it's filled up almost to it's entirety with systems and servers.

So, I've set these units as addresses in 192.168.0.x, and I've created an alternate IP address on my system as 192.168.0.250, with a mask of 255.255.255.0.

This works, as the IP stack knows which address to send requests out to. If I address something in the 0.x range, the system originates at 0.250, anything else goes out as 10.x. The problem is, my network resources on the domain disappear occasionally, and when I delete the alternate IP address, they come back. I've been using this scheme for quite some time on Windows 2000, and it was never a problem, so something has changed over the years. It seems to work for a while, and then randomly the resources drop out.

I am abit confused with that is said here. If i read correctly, you have assigned all available IPs to your network resources (all 253 from 192.168.10.x are taken). You since have more resources to add so you are moving from a Class c to a Class b allocation, which will gives you more IPs to play with. No worries there.

I then can't figure out what the last paragraph is saying, in particular the bold.
 

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They need to move away from 192.168.1x since that is a private class c address, anything on either side may cause issues with surfing the web.

While 10.x.x.x is another private address.
It allows room for expansion... as well :)
 

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I don't think he is concerned with internet access rather a connectivity between resources.

If I address something in the 0.x range, the system originates at 0.250, anything else goes out as 10.x.

I truely want to know what this means.
 

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This problem is a little tough to explain, but I'll try. I'd like to find if there is a resolution for it.

The way our company network is set up, we log into a domain. This gives me access to a number of network resources.

As a programmer of embedded equipment, one of the devices I've created can communicate via Ethernet to host systems.

Our network was originally laid out as a 253 system segment at 192.168.10.x (mask of 255.255.255.0) and this network segment has no free space for me to add a number of these controllers onto it since it's filled up almost to it's entirety with systems and servers.

So, I've set these units as addresses in 192.168.0.x, and I've created an alternate IP address on my system as 192.168.0.250, with a mask of 255.255.255.0.

This works, as the IP stack knows which address to send requests out to. If I address something in the 0.x range, the system originates at 0.250, anything else goes out as 10.x. The problem is, my network resources on the domain disappear occasionally, and when I delete the alternate IP address, they come back. I've been using this scheme for quite some time on Windows 2000, and it was never a problem, so something has changed over the years. It seems to work for a while, and then randomly the resources drop out.

Does anyone know why doing this would cause the connection to network resources to just vanish? It would seem that what m doing should work, since it does work. I just need to find the "irritant" that causes the connections to be lost.

Before you suggest we expand our network to support more hosts on the subnet, our IT department has rejected this. They don't want to have to go to every machine in the network (multiple buildings), reset subnet masks on clients and servers, and hope "it all works" after that.

Windows have a service that will broadcast onto the network to find resources (I forgot the name of the service), that service is updated in Vista and 7, when back in 2k and XP days, that service (I'll call it the "Browser" service from now on) sometimes can find resources, sometimes can't on a LAN, all Windows client. But when you add a Windows Server to the mix, somehow the "Browser" service runs perfectly fine.

Now, on the Vista and 7 generation, that service got updated big time. Now it can find ANYTHING with SMB protocol on the network, but for some reason it's "flaky", sometimes it might loose some resources and to list it few minutes later. I have my certification in Win2k+XP client and 2k/2k3 Server environment, I had my share of nightmares. All you can do now is just not rely on the "Browser", ie. don't trust what you don't see on the network browser, since the info in there is supplied by the weird service I mentioned earlier.

Either remove the second IP address, OR you can just ignore the missing network resource and access the host serving the resource by FQDN or direct IP address when it gone missing.

zzz2496
 

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OK. A lot of replies to sift through.

1) It appears what I am doing is creating two Class C networks from my PC. One on 192.168.10.x, the other on 192.168.0.x.

2) The login to the domain is on the 10.x subnet.

3) "other" foreign network "Stuff" is on the 0.x subnet.

4) Only my PC needs to access the items on the 0.x subnet, but my PC also needs to stay connected to the 10.x subnet for internet access, Outlook access, and other network resources (storage, etc)

5) When this situation occurs, Internet access continues to function. Only the network resources that I need to log in to access disappear.

Either remove the second IP address, OR you can just ignore the missing network resource and access the host serving the resource by FQDN or direct IP address when it gone missing.
It's hard to ignore the missing resources when any program wanting them says the network is disconnected. As for the other side of your "or" I don't know what FQDN is or how to access those resources by direct IP (plus the resources are spread over multiple server IPs).

Removing the second address is what I want to avoid as I need to be able to access the control machinery on the network, but once again I can not put it on the 10.x subnet due to lack of available IP addresses in the 10.x subnet.
 

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Jeffs,
I will email one of my instructors,
He deals with this daily.
I will see if I can get him to look at this thread for you :)
 

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Thanks.

I should also indicate that at the moment I have the alternate IP in place, was communicating with the control equipment on 0.x, and my connection to the "domain oriented" network resources on 10.x are currently up and working fine. So they DO co-exist, for a while anyway. I'm looking for what causes them to drop out, and why they stay disconnected until the instant I remove the alternate IP. The instant I click OK after deleting the alternate IP address all the resources reappear.

I need to figure this out, because I need to add more class C subnets on 25.x and 26.x to connect with other equipment.
 

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Jeffs,

FQDN = Fully Qualified Domain Name, target them manually in your application(s), it will try to connect whatever the status of the resource reported by the "Browser" service. Example: Let's say the Domain uses "domain.local", and the Domain Controller is "controller.domain.local", if you want to access the Domain Controller, you should use "controller.domain.local"(\\controller.domain.local) or it's IP address (\\192.168.10.253 <-- just an example). If you are logged in, the resource will always authenticate you to the DC, even if you are temporarily "disconnected".

So let's say you want to access a file server in the domain with FQDN of "files.domain.local", you can either directly access it by "\\files.domain.local" or target it's IP address directly, example "\\192.168.1.200". The FQDN will work as long as your local DNS Server can "tell" you the IP address behind the FQDN.

zzz2496

Ps. the "\\" is the sign for Explorer, it means that you are accessing a SMB server, it has the same meaning as "smb://" in *nix family. If you only need "access", not "SMB Access", just use the FQDN, no need to add "\\".
 

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When you added the alternate addresses, did you put in a default gateway address as well? I've used the alternate address stuff as well. Going back to W2K like you have.

While I haven't tried it on W7 yet, one thing that used to get me into trouble is having more than one default gateway. Adding more than one will get windows all confused. As long as you have *one* default gateway (in this case your domain) it should know which is which.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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Thanks.

I should also indicate that at the moment I have the alternate IP in place, was communicating with the control equipment on 0.x, and my connection to the "domain oriented" network resources on 10.x are currently up and working fine. So they DO co-exist, for a while anyway. I'm looking for what causes them to drop out, and why they stay disconnected until the instant I remove the alternate IP. The instant I click OK after deleting the alternate IP address all the resources reappear.

I need to figure this out, because I need to add more class C subnets on 25.x and 26.x to connect with other equipment.

Ive had that situation quite a few times when I updated my LAN controller using Windows Update, The RTL8168C driver showing as an available driver update for my LAN controller is in fact the wrong driver and will cause exactly the symptoms you described, where it will work with one or both networks for a period of time before mysteriously disconnecting and then your having to remove the configuration for the adapter before it'll work correctly.

If the RollBack driver option is available on the driver properties in Device Manager for your LAN controller then roll it back and see if it continues to happen, I would also try another machine to see if it has the same difficulties and also look around for a different version of your Vista/Windows 7 Ethernet drivers.

You should know by now that hardware related things either work or they don't on Windows, so the fact your LAN controller works perfectly before suddenly failing indicates a driver or hardware problem (unless you have some network script or co-worker giving you grief :P)

Hope it helps.

Steven
 
When you added the alternate addresses, did you put in a default gateway address as well? I've used the alternate address stuff as well. Going back to W2K like you have.

While I haven't tried it on W7 yet, one thing that used to get me into trouble is having more than one default gateway. Adding more than one will get windows all confused. As long as you have *one* default gateway (in this case your domain) it should know which is which.

Just my 2 cents.

From what Jeffs said, I think he doesn't use 2 gateways, he just added a new alternate IP address. Having 2 gateways does indeed make Windows go weird at times, but it can be cured by putting a number in the "Interface metric" text box in the advanced properties. It simply saying that this gateway is farther than that gateway, so Windows will automatically use the shorter distance gateway. By the way, I'm currently using 3 different IP addresses for my current computer, one for IBM IMM interface, one for my VMM connecting to my IBM server, and the last one is for connecting to the virtual servers inside the IBM, nothing wrong so far (I only access FQDNs/IP addresses here).

zzz2496
 
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You could be right. I couldn't tell from his posts if he added a gateway or not.
 

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To answer some questions:

- only 1 gateway. The gateway is only used to route traffic out to the internet, not the internal network or anything having to do with the devices/resources that drop out. As I've said, when these resources drop out, internet connectivity still works.

- zzz2496: are you talking about putting FQDN entries in my hosts file? If not, ....?

- dmex: I'll check if the driver's been updated.

When I left work, the alternate IP address was in place. When I get to work in the morning, I'll see if I still have the resources showing.
 

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Jeffs,

If the DHCP server is serving a DNS server, you don't need to put the FQDN in your HOSTS file, the DNS server will resolve hostname to IP address for you. What I mean was, you access the resource directly, ignore the network browser report (the page you refer to see network resources). That list will come and go, it relies to the network browser service's ability to discover "things". In an Active Directory situation, the network browser should connect to the DC to find out resources, but I can be wrong since the "network browser" I know is from XP days.

zzz2496
 

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1.5Mbps down/384Kbps up
Other Info
APC SURT 1000XL
Logitech Z-560
Wiimote
Mikrotik Router
Linksys (now Cisco) SD2008 8 port Gigabit switch
Linksys WRT54G (acting as AP)
Apple wireless Aluminium keyboard
Apple Magic Mouse
Xbox360 wired controller
We don't use DHCP. All addresses are static.

...more tomorrow
 

My Computer My Computer

At a glance

Win 7 x64 ProfessionalIntel Core i5-750 2.67Ghz4gbNvidia GeForce 9500GT 512mb
Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
DYI
OS
Win 7 x64 Professional
CPU
Intel Core i5-750 2.67Ghz
Motherboard
Gigabyte P55M-UD4
Memory
4gb
Graphics Card(s)
Nvidia GeForce 9500GT 512mb
Sound Card
On MB
Monitor(s) Displays
Lg Flatron
Screen Resolution
1280 x 1024
Hard Drives
C: 200mb Maxtor SATA 3
D: 500gb WD SATA 3
For whatever reason, I still have connectivity to my network resources 10.x and to my equipment on 0.x. The alternate IP has been set for over 12 hours. I don't know why it's still working. Sooner or later however, it's gonna quit.
 

My Computer My Computer

At a glance

Win 7 x64 ProfessionalIntel Core i5-750 2.67Ghz4gbNvidia GeForce 9500GT 512mb
Computer Manufacturer/Model Number
DYI
OS
Win 7 x64 Professional
CPU
Intel Core i5-750 2.67Ghz
Motherboard
Gigabyte P55M-UD4
Memory
4gb
Graphics Card(s)
Nvidia GeForce 9500GT 512mb
Sound Card
On MB
Monitor(s) Displays
Lg Flatron
Screen Resolution
1280 x 1024
Hard Drives
C: 200mb Maxtor SATA 3
D: 500gb WD SATA 3
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