windows 7 warning for outlook express users

I had to move up, should I say down, to Windows 7 from XP a few weeks back. If I had the time, I would have a bought another XP computer, but I had to have one that day and a problem forced me to get Windows 7. Unfortunately, it's worse than XP in many ways and I can't believe MS did it again. They should have just built on XP. I could go on with all the things that are worse, but the biggest problem is Outlook Express is long gone. So here is a warning to all those who love OE.

I came from DOS and started with computers in 1988 and watched every system improve up through XP, then VISTA was a disaster and I see the same in Windows 7. This is why people are moving to Macs. But the biggest problem is having to use Outlook, which is far inferior to Outlook Express. Hard to believe but many actions take many extra moves.

Almost every action requires a few extra moves. Want to Copy messages to a folder - can't do it in the supposedly superior Outlook. Want to delete a file or even just move it to folder and then move it again. Sometimes, you can't undelete them or move them. I haven't figured out why but some message comes up that the message was already moved and you can't move it again. I could name a few dozen more operations, but the main thing is DON'T GET WINDOWS 7 if you can because you will hate Outlook. It has many options but can't do many things OE can. Outlook is like driving down the road in a motorhome, with every option in the world available and all you want is a good car with simple basic controls to get you around. Microsoft did it again.

I would pay a couple hundred dollars right now to have Outlook Express. Yes, I would buy it. MS just doesn't get it.

Does anyone know a great email program so I can trash Outlook?

Since Outlook doesn't come with any version of Windows, I miss your point.

You'll see prompts all the time because it's much more secure than XP, something you should be greatful for. XP will die in 2014 anyway, so look at it this way, your prepared for that.

You can download Windows Live Mail and use that, it's like a glorified OE anyway, or with a lot of jiggery-pokery you can get Vista Windows Mail, which is the successor to OE, working in Windows 7.

See this tutorial: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/5481-windows-mail.html?ltr=W

By the way, you can thank various Governments, US and EU for the missing "bits". It wasn't Microsoft's fault.

outlook express

Yes - Windows 7 comes with Windows Live, but it has many failings compared to Outlook Express.

Correct that Oulook does not come with Windows 7, it comes with MS Office. But since Windows Live is nothing compared to Express, no one wants that, so you have to go to Outlook - especially if you want to import your Express emails.

I started with Outlook Express back when it started - a decade ago or so. At one point I considered moving to Outlook since it always came with Office, but I backed out after testing it. It's not as good and many steps require an extra move to do something. You would think Outlook would do what Express does but more, but Outlook is limited in many ways and can't do things Express can. It's actually inferior in many actions.

A simple example I gave earlier. You can't even Copy messages to a folder and sometimes when they've been moved once, you can't move them again, even some if you deleted them by mistake. Go to the Outlook forums. People complain these things happen with the supposedly superior program.

Live mail you can copy things to folders all day manually or automatically.

It really is just OE with a warmed over UI and seperate folders for each mail account, but all the functionality (that I ever used anyway) is the same.

craig1000 said:

I had to move up, should I say down, to Windows 7 from XP a few weeks back. If I had the time, I would have a bought another XP computer, but I had to have one that day and a problem forced me to get Windows 7. Unfortunately, it's worse than XP in many ways and I can't believe MS did it again. They should have just built on XP. I could go on with all the things that are worse, but the biggest problem is Outlook Express is long gone. So here is a warning to all those who love OE.

I came from DOS and started with computers in 1988 and watched every system improve up through XP, then VISTA was a disaster and I see the same in Windows 7. This is why people are moving to Macs. But the biggest problem is having to use Outlook, which is far inferior to Outlook Express. Hard to believe but many actions take many extra moves.

Almost every action requires a few extra moves. Want to Copy messages to a folder - can't do it in the supposedly superior Outlook. Want to delete a file or even just move it to folder and then move it again. Sometimes, you can't undelete them or move them. I haven't figured out why but some message comes up that the message was already moved and you can't move it again. I could name a few dozen more operations, but the main thing is DON'T GET WINDOWS 7 if you can because you will hate Outlook. It has many options but can't do many things OE can. Outlook is like driving down the road in a motorhome, with every option in the world available and all you want is a good car with simple basic controls to get you around. Microsoft did it again.

I would pay a couple hundred dollars right now to have Outlook Express. Yes, I would buy it. MS just doesn't get it.

Does anyone know a great email program so I can trash Outlook?

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This is the second thread in which you have posted this diatribe. So you don't like Outlook; that's OK. Download and install Thunderbird.

And Outlook does not come with Win 7; I think you are just grinding an axe against MS.

Definately recommend Thunderbird with the lightning add-in for the calendaring.
This is my choice for email. I just don't like the "LIVE" versions. I like to keep it close to home, but I am old fashioned and think it is MY email to do with it as I please.

I use this for email on XP machines as well as Win7 machines. Never did like the
Windows Live mail client that came with Vista.

I wish you good luck with your dilemma.

Windows Live Mail is the most user friendly email client ever. Plus it's one of the best feed reader software too.

What are your email options in Windows 7?

For more than a decade, through numerous new operating systems, I have always used the latest version of Microsoft Outlook as my email client. I like Outlook for its integration with Exchange Server and its integration of email with my calendar, contacts and tasks, and each new version has been better than the last. I currently use the beta of Outlook 2010, which has some really great features and which I reviewed back in the December 17 edition of this newsletter, along with other Office 2010 programs. You can read the archive of that article at
Win7News - Office 2010 Gives Windows 7 a Whole New Outlook

The only problem with Outlook (or what we got into the habit of calling "Big Outlook" during the time when Microsoft's free email client was Outlook Express) is that you have to pay for it - usually a little under $100 (You can buy Outlook 2007 from Amazon for $87.94 at the time of this writing). To me, it's well worth the price, since I depend on my email, calendar and contacts for doing business. However, some folks don't want to or can't afford to pay for an email program.

Many of those folks used Outlook Express for many years. OE was introduced in 1997 as part of Internet Explorer 4.0 and was included in Windows 98, 2000, Me and XP. Recently, as many XP users have bought new computers that come with Windows 7, they have been unhappy to find that part of Microsoft's initiative to cut down on "operating system bloat" included leaving out some of the extra applications - such as the email client.

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Read the full article here.

craig1000 said:

A simple example I gave earlier. You can't even Copy messages to a folder

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1. Highlight the messages you want to copy.
2. Hold down Ctrl.
3. Drag messages to destination folder.
4. Job done.

This is normal Windows behaviour - drag to move, Ctrl-drag to copy - and it works fine in Outlook

craig1000 said:

Yes - Windows 7 comes with Windows Live, but it has many failings compared to Outlook Express.

Correct that Oulook does not come with Windows 7, it comes with MS Office. But since Windows Live is nothing compared to Express, (1) no one wants that, so you have to go to Outlook - especially if you want to import your Express emails.

I started with Outlook Express back when it started - a decade ago or so. At one point I considered moving to Outlook since it always came with Office, but I backed out after testing it. (2) It's not as good and many steps require an extra move to do something. You would think Outlook would do what Express does but more, but (3) Outlook is limited in many ways and can't do things Express can. It's actually inferior in many actions.

A simple example I gave earlier. (4) You can't even Copy messages to a folder and sometimes (5) when they've been moved once, you can't move them again, even some if you deleted them by mistake. Go to the Outlook forums. People complain these things happen with the supposedly superior program.

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1. Complete BS. A lot of people want and like Live Mail.
2. Please give an example of a procedure which requires extra work when done in Outlook.
3. Please give an example of a procedure which can not be done in Outlook, but can be done in OE.
4. Yes you can.
5. Yes you can.

Kari

Windows live mail IS outlook express with a redone mail folder UI. All the settings, rules, features and everything else of OE are in Live Mail.

True, some people don't like that all accounts now have seperate folders. But there is the all folders folder which is darn close to the way it was before.

I've been using computers since my TI99-4/a, and I have to say Windows 7 is my favorite OS to date. I also have an iMac G5 btw, and am very familiar with Macs since I have always had at least one since my Apple iiGS. I am a UNIX admin by trade certified in Solaris and Red Hat Linux, so I'm in no way a Microsoft fanboy, I just happen to think W7 is excellent. Windows 7 doesn't come with an email client. I chose to install Live Mail, and I love the entire live suite. It does everything I need and is fast, and I was able to import all my old OE mail off my XP machine. Usually I find rants like this have more to do with needing to learn the new products. My users hate change, anytime something new comes in they resist and hate it, then they slowly come around as they learn to use it and see the benefits and new capabilities.

Desslok said:

I've been using computers since my TI99-4/a, and I have to say Windows 7 is my favorite OS to date. I also have an iMac G5 btw, and am very familiar with Macs since I have always had at least one since my Apple iiGS. I am a UNIX admin by trade certified in Solaris and Red Hat Linux, so I'm in no way a Microsoft fanboy, I just happen to think W7 is excellent. Windows 7 doesn't come with an email client. I chose to install Live Mail, and I love the entire live suite. It does everything I need and is fast, and I was able to import all my old OE mail off my XP machine. Usually I find rants like this have more to do with needing to learn the new products. My users hate change, anytime something new comes in they resist and hate it, then they slowly come around as they learn to use it and see the benefits and new capabilities.

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Desslok, I think you nailed it. By the way, I also started with TI-99/4a.

CarlTR6 said:

And Outlook does not come with Win 7; I think you are just grinding an axe against MS.

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craig1000 said:

Yes - Windows 7 comes with Windows Live, but it has many failings compared to Outlook Express.

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Nor does Windows Live Mail with my install

Ex_Brit said:

or with a lot of jiggery-pokery you can get Vista Windows Mail, which is the successor to OE, working in Windows 7.
See this tutorial: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/5481-windows-mail.html?ltr=W

Click to expand...

I prefer "Windows Mail" (instead of "Windows Live Mail") which is nearly complete included in Windows 7 (see folder C:\Programs\Windows Mail).

Ex_Brit said:

with a lot of jiggery-pokery you can get Vista Windows Mail

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You only need to substitute the file msoe.dll in folder "C:\Programs\Windows Mail" with a version of Vista (same version - 32 bit or 64 bit) to get it working.

The only bad is that junk mail filter isn't working in "Windows Mail". And you also can not install junk mail updates manually. Of course you can download junk mail updates manually - but can't install in Windows 7 ("wrong operating system").

steps easier in OE

someone asked about more steps in Outlook compared to OE. I can go on with many, but here is a simple one: HIDE READ MESSAGES: In Outlook, it's View, Arrange By, Current View, then choose and click one. In OE, its View and then choose and click. This is so typical of Outlook. Many, many steps. It's slower to move around. Too many options.

Here's a step you can't do in Outlook but can in OE: SAVE ALL - you can save all the attachments in one folder. Right click on one of the attachments and navigate to where to save. If you did it before and want to save in the same place, which I do continuously, it's right click and save and you are done. If you want to do it in Outlook, it's, right click, select all, navigate in your computer to where and paste. And they call this better?

Me, a loyal MS fan for years, since 88, watched the software improve every year until Vista. It's a new trend now. And then look at the My Pictures window in Win 7. It's the ugliest layout with these partially open folders that you can't see anything. Jagged edges, hard to look at. Who's the designer who thought that up? No sense of what is easy on the eyes? How about pleasing to the eye which is simple and clear. Hire a designer. Get rid of fancy. I've gone through every system since DOS and saw improvements. I bought a Vista at one point and was so dissappointed, I returned the first computer I have ever returned and bought a new one with XP. MS did what I saw early on and got rid of it.

Simplicity is going by the wayside. I am, yes greatly dissappointed in MS. They are failing us. How about improving on the past instead of junking the old and coming up with a whole new system that is often missing the good of the old?

Am I on campaign? Absolutely. MS is losing it in their quest to sell the latest software and more computers. You want to sell more computers? Make it easy to transfer all your programs and data from one computer to a new one with a simple transfer - without having to reload everything all over. That's what keeps me from buying a new computer more than anything else. Let them solve that.

craig1000 said:

Here's a step you can't do in Outlook but can in OE: SAVE ALL - you can save all the attachments in one folder. Right click on one of the attachments and navigate to where to save. If you did it before and want to save in the same place, which I do continuously, it's right click and save and you are done. If you want to do it in Outlook, it's, right click, select all, navigate in your computer to where and paste.

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Presumably you mean that this is a step you can do in both Outlook Express and Outlook, because you say yourself how to do it in Outlook. Since Outlook does remember your last save location, the number of operations required to achieve your goal is the same in both programs.

You seem angry about Outlook but pretty much everything you have said about it is incorrect...

I am completely lost trying to figure out the gripe here. I went from OE way back when, to TB. Then after TB got kinda overblown, I started using WLM, and have to this day. Not sure, but it isn't difficult, it looks good,and keeps my stuff as organized as I need it.
If you're going to base every opinion about Win7 on an 2 email clients that it doesn't even come with, then I see no point in this whole conversation. Some people don't like change. Well tough, it's gonna happen, even if you don't like it.

You want to sell more computers? Make it easy to transfer all your programs and data from one computer to a new one with a simple transfer - without having to reload everything all over. That's what keeps me from buying a new computer more than anything else.

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So you're basically saying, you'd have to be able to go from one OS to another, using all of the same things, same settings, same programs?
Ummm...that would be a lateral move, since the 2nd OS would have to be the same as the first. There's no point there.
Also, Microsoft doesn't exactly sell computers, they sell software,so again....no point. I've had the same copy of XP on 2 different computers(at differnt times, after upgrading), and I have Vista on a newer one. If I made another computer, I would probably install this copy of Vista on it and everything would basically be the same as i have it now. I still don't understand how Vista is a "disaster". I have it, haven't had a single problem with it. Not one blue screen, and it's plenty fast. Unless you've used it, don't bash it. Basing stuff on what you've "heard" will get you nowhere.

I'm sure someone liked the steering wheel in a '64 Chevy Impala, but come on....are they still using it today? Not quite.

It's called advancement. Live with it, or stay behind.

Yeah the OP is confusing his own issue by contantly comparing Outlook and OE. They have ALWAYS been different. In some areas, vastly. Why compare them now? What does this have to do with Windows 7?

NOTHING!

Compare OE to Windows Mail available in the live suite. I've had no problem adjusting to the minor UI changes, all the other functionality is the same. They changes are no more drastic than the switch to 7 itself.