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Windows 7: More reliable software for hardware sensors?

10 Feb 2012   #1
writhziden

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 
More reliable software for hardware sensors?

I have tried out a number of different temperature monitors during my time helping within the crashing and debugging forums. I am now wondering if these monitors are accurate because they claim my desktop CPU is getting up to 76 C. Q9550 shows that the max is 71.4 C (or 76.4 C if one adds the 5 C), so I would be very surprised if my cores were actually getting to 76 C on a regular basis for the past two years without a catastrophic failure resulting. See the images attached for HWINFO, RealTemp, SpeedFan, and Core Temp in that order. I am wondering if the TJMax might be offset from 76 to 100 and that is causing the erroneous readings from my sensors.

Name:  HWINFO.JPG
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Name:  RealTemp.JPG
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Size:  13.7 KB

Name:  SpeedFan.JPG
Views: 249
Size:  10.4 KB

Name:  Core Temp.JPG
Views: 254
Size:  18.6 KB

Is there a better program for monitoring system temperatures than HWINFO, RealTemp, SpeedFan, and Core Temp?




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10 Feb 2012   #2
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

I don't put a lot of faith in any of them.

Do any of them do anything other than try to read a number from the BIOS?

I've never made a study of them, but I don't really understand why they vary so much.

I use HWInfo, but don't take its readings too seriously.

I have a setting in my BIOS to set off an audio alarm if temps rise above a certain point that I can choose. As long as I don't hear that, I don't agonize over it.

What is the TJ Max on your processor? I wouldn't be surprised if you could operate for years in the 70s.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Feb 2012   #3
writhziden

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ignatzatsonic View Post
I don't put a lot of faith in any of them.

Do any of them do anything other than try to read a number from the BIOS?

I've never made a study of them, but I don't really understand why they vary so much.

I use HWInfo, but don't take its readings too seriously.

I have a setting in my BIOS to set off an audio alarm if temps rise above a certain point that I can choose. As long as I don't hear that, I don't agonize over it.

What is the TJ Max on your processor? I wouldn't be surprised if you could operate for years in the 70s.
TCase is 71.4 C, so TJ Max should be 76.4 C; All four sensor programs show my temperatures about the same +/- 2 C. The reason they vary so much in the images is I was using prime95 to show how hot they get, so the temperatures rose a bit during the time it took for me to take an image of each. I am thinking that TJ Max for the programs being set at 100 C is misleading. If I adjust it in RealTemp to 76 C instead, for instance, my temperatures look a lot more reasonable. With it adjusted, I get temperatures of 30 C at idle and a max of 56 C during stress.
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10 Feb 2012   #4
panais

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1
 
 

The most reliable? Restart now enter bios,check in there system and cpu temperatures.

Post here the cpu and system temperatures.

Then,

Check with Core Temp.

Check with Speccy - Standard.

Upload here snip\screenshots.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Feb 2012   #5
writhziden

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by panais View Post
The most reliable? Restart now enter bios,check in there system and cpu temperatures.

Post here the cpu and system temperatures.

Then,

Check with Core Temp.

Check with Speccy - Standard.

Upload here snip\screenshots.
My BIOS does not show my temperatures. HP hides that information (annoyingly). That was the first thing I checked when I realized the sensor programs were giving such high readings.

Here are the images:
Name:  Core Temp.JPG
Views: 7
Size:  39.0 KB
-speccy.jpg


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10 Feb 2012   #6
panais

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1
 
 

Core temp never have done mistake for me.

Coretemp always agree with my bios and my laser temp scanner.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Feb 2012   #7
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

I thought TJ Max was closer to 100 on that processor. Just wondering why you added 5 degrees to TCase of 71.4 to get TJ Max?

Have you seen this:

The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages

which says, among other things:

TJ Max is an inherently unreliable and inaccurate method of measuring idle/low temperatures. Due to the way it was designed, the readings are so inaccurate under 50C that Intel says they can only be read as a number temperature below 50C. As the temperature approaches TJ Max, the precision increases and at TJ Max the temperature is considered to be 100% accurate. Because of this error at low temperatures, sub-ambient temperature/very high readings are sometimes given for idle temperatures. With the TJ Max method, your idle temperatures have no accuracy and therefore should be ignored. Under load, the temperatures become much more accurate and should be very carefully monitored.

The argument then says that you should calibrate your TJ Max by measuring the ambient temperature in the room, setting your CPU at stock with stock voltages, but then lower your multiplier to the lowest possible (usually 6 for Core 2 CPUs). Then adjust the TJ Max until your idle temp readings are about 7C higher than ambient. The problem with this argument is that Intel has implied that the Distance to TJ Max values are not linear, and therefore you would have accurate idle temps (not important) and very inaccurate load temps (very important).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Feb 2012   #8
panais

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1
 
 

I prefer to keep it simple,

Are you overclocking anything?
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10 Feb 2012   #9
writhziden

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ignatzatsonic View Post
I thought TJ Max was closer to 100 on that processor. Just wondering why you added 5 degrees to TCase of 71.4 to get TJ Max?

Have you seen this:

The Truth about Temperatures and Voltages

which says, among other things:

TJ Max is an inherently unreliable and inaccurate method of measuring idle/low temperatures. Due to the way it was designed, the readings are so inaccurate under 50C that Intel says they can only be read as a number temperature below 50C. As the temperature approaches TJ Max, the precision increases and at TJ Max the temperature is considered to be 100% accurate. Because of this error at low temperatures, sub-ambient temperature/very high readings are sometimes given for idle temperatures. With the TJ Max method, your idle temperatures have no accuracy and therefore should be ignored. Under load, the temperatures become much more accurate and should be very carefully monitored.

The argument then says that you should calibrate your TJ Max by measuring the ambient temperature in the room, setting your CPU at stock with stock voltages, but then lower your multiplier to the lowest possible (usually 6 for Core 2 CPUs). Then adjust the TJ Max until your idle temp readings are about 7C higher than ambient. The problem with this argument is that Intel has implied that the Distance to TJ Max values are not linear, and therefore you would have accurate idle temps (not important) and very inaccurate load temps (very important).
I think I misunderstood what TJ Max is. I thought it was the maximum temperature of the processor. It appears to not be the Tcase from what I am reading. The Q series seems to have a max Tjunction of 90-100 C depending on the processor, so maybe 100 C is correct. The max processor temp I have seen calculated using the case temp + 5 C, but that may be a conservative value.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by panais View Post
I prefer to keep it simple,

Are you overclocking anything?
Nope, I do not like overclocking. Why limit my electronics' life when I do not have any money to buy new components?

And if you wonder about dust, the system is dust free as of a week ago. I thoroughly clean the dust out every few weeks.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Feb 2012   #10
panais

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1
 
 

My temps,Q6600 2.40,compare,do you see anything different\strange?


Attached Thumbnails
-panais.png   -panaisc.png  
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 More reliable software for hardware sensors?




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