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Windows 7: Free Windows Tuner - Is the program safe and real?

13 Jul 2012   #11
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I also like pparks1 would sure like that list to piddle with. I wonder if Microsoft would like to buy that list.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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15 Jul 2012   #12
Dark Rider

windows 7 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by solarmystic View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dark Rider View Post
I have to strongly disagree with solarmystic to an extent. -snip-
I'm quite aware of BlackViper and his website dealing with the services and processes of Windows 7.

I personally used (still am to an extent) to be an ardent supporter of his site and methodology for trimming down as many services as possible on my system. But that was when i was using Windows XP many years ago.

I will not deny that his website offers insight on the various 'configurations' of services and what each does (an invaluable service for the bleeding edge crowd), but the measured (in terms of RAM gained, or boot time reduced) impact of disabling those services, to me, isn't worth the hassle when it comes to Windows 7.
What I was actually disagreeing with was this statement:

"Windows 7 does not require any of those 3rd party tuning programs or utilities or even tweakers that claim to increase your performance; Microsoft has already strove to create the perfect out of the Box experience for Windows 7"

I KNOW tweaking my system in my described manner gives me way more resources left over to run graphic intensive programs. Without my tweaks, some games wont even run and with my tweaks, they run just fine.

I have read on here some people feel it's even potentially harmful to follow Black Vipers advice. I don't care one way or the other about BlackViper cept to use his research to learn about your services.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For pparks1 and Layback Bear

As for my Magic List, you have to understand that everyone's magic list may be different depending on your needs. It's simply a list of the services I need and everything I do not need is disabled. There is really nothing special or magic about my list other then it contains only what I need running and nothing else.

People may say that there is no difference between disabling a service or setting it to manual.. but I don't believe it personally. I am a hard core gamer and I know many games will play better if I disable services as opposed to setting them to manual. I seem to have more resources to play the games even though there is no difference in task manager. Can I explain this, no, but as I find this is what works for me, it is my preference.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Jul 2012   #13
Alejandro85

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

I also have to disagree with solarmystic and all his supporters, Windows 7 is Windows after all, and that about Win7 doesn't even "requires" tweaking is one of the marketing lies that the M$ folks want us to believe.

Anyone that used Windows for a number of years for a number of versions knows that EVERY installations degrades performance over time, and a few tweaks really improve performance sometimes in particular situations. Don't know about that program and generally I don't trust too much that "magic" software that claims miracles in performance, but, being a knowledgeable user I think that a few touches to services, startup programs and installed things can make a difference.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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15 Jul 2012   #14
mikeymikec

Windows 7 HP 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Alejandro85 View Post
Anyone that used Windows for a number of years for a number of versions knows that EVERY installations degrades performance over time
Absolutely untrue. I haven't wiped one of my own Windows installs because "it got slow" in at least ten years. Admittedly between 1996 - 2005 I was having more fun doing weird things to Windows and ended up reinstalling a lot of the time, but that's a different story

What does change are the following:

- The base software that almost everyone uses - e.g. web browsers, security software - these get incremental updates and upgrades and steadily their hardware requirements go up.
- A heck of a lot of users don't treat their computer with care, e.g. instead of "oops, I shouldn't have installed that", just don't install it in the first place. Most users don't have the knowledge required to get rid of what's left behind by say a poorly-written browser toolbar uninstaller.
- In the days of pre Vista, a defrag once in a while
- Users installing printers, a printer eventually dies, the user doesn't uninstall the software
- Users inserting the CD from their broadband provider (I live in the UK, foreign providers may not do these things), or a bloody HP printer CD - ending up with a load of crap they don't need.

As a general point, the playing field has altered dramatically in terms of the hardware generally available to run Windows 7 as opposed to WinXP and its predecessors. I am totally in the "tweak it up" camp, but I think it used to make a heck of a lot more difference than it does now. It used to be easy for me to tell the difference between a Win2k/XP-era computer on a stock install and with the Windows filesharing services (and other unnecessary services) disabled. Now the difference is subtle or non-existent. Personally I haven't seen an appreciable difference. A Win7-64 desktop computer build I've done with MSE for security takes about 45 seconds to boot. My own PC is a bit faster, perhaps because it has 4-6 cores (AMD 960T with unlockable cores), but even that is between 35-45 seconds.

My Win7 install is 2.5 years old. If I reinstalled it now, I'd spend hours getting the software I want back on, and its performance would be identical to what it is now. I remember thinking the same thing for my previous build (Athlon XP 2500-3200+) running XP. I really appreciate a fast booting and responsive system, so if I honestly thought reinstalling on a regular-ish basis made the slightest bit of difference I'd agree with you.
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16 Jul 2012   #15
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dark Rider View Post
I have to strongly disagree with solarmystic to an extent. Microsoft did a poor job of optimizing the Windows 7 system for performance.
This is where you and all those agreeing with you need to realize that Windows 7 is far different than any other version of Windows ever created. You CANNOT hold it to the same level of thinking as XP, meaning if you think you need to tweak it, you are wrong. People have tried, but in the end, you won't realize any performance gains. Even disabling services has been thoroughly debunked as a performance tip.

My suggestion is to spend some time educating yourself on the history of Windows performance tweaking...and find out why it doesn't really exist anymore, aside from the given methods...don't run a lot of apps at boot, keep drivers up to date...and use an SSD for the OS.

Furthermore, I can't believe I'm even typing this again, but the moment any mention of Black Viper is given, credibility is lost. I can't bare the carpal tunnel pains to retype yet again the history of that horrid site, but I'll sum it up as this. If you want to know the reality of his methods, ask yourself why he's known as QuackViper in the most popular, most well-known enthusiast forums and circles. That site is responsible for killing more XP installs than any piece of malware ever created.

Getting back to tweaking, the best example on updated thinking involves tapes and CDs. We used tapes for the longest time. We developed a best practices....avoid magnets, extreme temps, rewind when done, flip them over to extend play time, break tabs to prevent erasing, etc. NONE of that applies to CDs, so we've had to change our methods and ways of thinking. All just to listen to music. That's how it is with windows XP when compared to Windows 7.

The best tweaking advice given in enthusiast forums is: leave it alone. It's been proven, documented, reproven, and retested.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jul 2012   #16
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dark Rider View Post
People may say that there is no difference between disabling a service or setting it to manual.. but I don't believe it personally. I am a hard core gamer and I know many games will play better if I disable services as opposed to setting them to manual. I seem to have more resources to play the games even though there is no difference in task manager. Can I explain this, no, but as I find this is what works for me, it is my preference.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to us. Lots of these types of requests seem to go unanswered or simply ignored.

I'm going to bunch you into the group of people who "believe it to be better" and I think this is mostly founded in they theory it should be better as more resources would be available. Without any quantifiable evidence to prove that it's better, it's just an assumption or a gut feel. It's like having a race car, and increasing the horsepower or reducing the weight of the vehicle. In theory, if you were to drag race the 1/4 mile, you would of course be faster. However, if your tires no longer hook up, or your transmission isn't shifting effective/efficiently, you may actually be slower. And when you pull up to the line and gun it, you may feel that extra horsepower, or the car may be louder and more aggressive sounding, but without the timing of the race, you might conclude you are now faster, when it fact the opposite might be true.

Obviously, if you feel better running in this manner, that is really all that matters and you are free to run your system any way you choose. But I would hesitate to tell others that they can increase the performance of their machines, or that they should take a few days to learn about each and every service to tweak them for best performance, without having any real conclusive proof that this actually makes any real difference.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jul 2012   #17
mikeymikec

Windows 7 HP 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dark Rider View Post
People may say that there is no difference between disabling a service or setting it to manual.. but I don't believe it personally. I am a hard core gamer and I know many games will play better if I disable services as opposed to setting them to manual. I seem to have more resources to play the games even though there is no difference in task manager. Can I explain this, no, but as I find this is what works for me, it is my preference.
There is a difference between a service set to manual or disabled.

As I understand it, 'manual' would be better worded as 'on demand'. So a service set to this wouldn't start every time the computer boots, but if something requested it, it would start.

'Disabled' means that even if something requests that service, it won't start.

Unfortunately a lot of the time (possibly due to bad programming), 'manual' ends up being pretty similar to 'disabled' unless the user goes in and starts the manual service themselves.

I only use 'disabled' if I really mean it (and these days I'm not talking about service tweaking, rather e.g. troubleshooting possibly malfunctioning security software).

Your question about gaming and service tweaking - I can only see a possible connection if the service and the game have some communications, like say the "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant" and Batman: Arkham City. Disable that service, the game crashes Alternatively say a graphics driver debugging service.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jul 2012   #18
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mikeymikec View Post
As I understand it, 'manual' would be better worded as 'on demand'. So a service set to this wouldn't start every time the computer boots, but if something requested it, it would start.
Exactly, and that's why, if anyone ever has a need to manipulate services (not for performance, as that doesn't exist, but for troubleshooting), it is best to use manual. You are exactly correct.

As others have pointed out, the real bottom line issue is that no one can prove better performance. This debate has been raging on for over 10 years, and as it stands on enthusiast, performance-oriented boards, like [H]ardForum, the proof is in the numbers. When you gain nothing in performance, but raise your chances if causing issues or instability...there's no reason to spend time on this type of "tweaking". Feeling faster and being faster, are FAR different things.
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16 Jul 2012   #19
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

^And if you spend hours, days or weeks reading about all of these tweaks and then implementing them all, without any real world gains....what have you accomplished? Obviously, time is not the only relevant measure. When it comes to gaming you could measure with a significant increase in FPS. But if you were previously at 12FPS and went to 12.5FPS...it's probably not worth the time and effort. If you went from says 8FPS to 45FPS...that would be a big change...but it's highly unlikely disabling of a single service or a group of services will ever amount to that much.
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16 Jul 2012   #20
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

The only thing I'm sure of is if many people start fooling around with Windows 7 services the Crash and Debug people here are going to be very busy.
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 Free Windows Tuner - Is the program safe and real?




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