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Windows 7: Mixer behavior


23 May 2010   #1
7hbg

 
 
Mixer behavior

Some will probably out right disagree with me, but I can’t stand how the new audio mixer works in windows 7. What bothers me is how Master Volume effects (moves) other sliders. In theory it makes sense, but in practice is almost unusable. Why adjusting master, moves other sliders? Here is a screen capture of a particular situation, where moving two sliders, affects a third one to a point that no sound comes out of that input: http://zabcia.ca/pics/VolumeMixer.wmv. I made the individual adjustments relatively small to show the problem, but you can unintentionally eliminate an input in just two moves. There are more examples that boil my blood, but let me just ask one question: Is there ways to make it behave like a normal mixer; each input is independent, master does not affect any inputs, etc…?
Thanks
Rob


My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #2
zigzag3143

Win 8 Release candidate 8400
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by 7hbg View Post
Some will probably out right disagree with me, but I can’t stand how the new audio mixer works in windows 7. What bothers me is how Master Volume effects (moves) other sliders. In theory it makes sense, but in practice is almost unusable. Why adjusting master, moves other sliders? Here is a screen capture of a particular situation, where moving two sliders, affects a third one to a point that no sound comes out of that input: http://zabcia.ca/pics/VolumeMixer.wmv. I made the individual adjustments relatively small to show the problem, but you can unintentionally eliminate an input in just two moves. There are more examples that boil my blood, but let me just ask one question: Is there ways to make it behave like a normal mixer; each input is independent, master does not affect any inputs, etc…?
Thanks
Rob
Not that I know of. From my limited audio experience it does seem like the the sub volumes are independent just limited by master. That is how I remember it from ages ago.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #3
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

I know !! Since MS's Audio division engineer thought that it'd be cool to move everything in unison... Looks cool that way... I think...

And yes, I feel your pain. That behavior is stupid and useless, not to mention if one of the apps's volume is boosted above the "master" slider, the "master"slider goes up as well, that is just plain stupid. I guess the programmer is a computer programmer and have ZERO idea what to do around Audio Mixers...

zzz2496
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #4
7hbg

 
 

I work with audio a lot, that’s why I’m having difficult time with it.
Here is how an XP mixer worked (and every mixer before it, as well as it’s analog counterpart): VolumeMixerXP, simply each slider is independent.
Rob
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #5
kucing13

 

in short other app like winamp volume are limit by master volume. DUhh
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #6
fireberd

Windows 7, 64 bit Home SP1, Win 8.1.1 Pro 64 bit
 
 

My SoundBlaster volume control works the same way in Win 7. But, it's not a problem for my audio work as I use Sonar for my DAW and an external firewire connected audio I/O device and it's not affected by what Windows does.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #7
7hbg

 
 

Hi
Zzz2496, your are on the same page as I am.
Fireberd, is not affected because he does everything within one application (at least that’s how I understand your workflow).
All others are saying:

…limited by master…

Yes OK, WinXP’s master volume control also limited the inputs, but it didn’t affect inputs I was not controlling. Look at the first video again, I never touch the middle control (System Sounds) yet the output is reduced to nothing when I’m done…

I edit video. Here are elements to my workflow: I have one application for video/audio editing (Edius). Second application, for audio processing (Audition). Another application, for generating background music (Sonicfire). And on occasion I need to view/hear something using Media Player or other players like QT, etc. So I may have 4 or more audio sources. Adjusting any one of them will affect the others as demonstrated in the first video. Every time I switch application, I have to “visit” the mixer to make sure I can hear it. This is the pain I’m talking about. I do understand the “limiting” concept of the Master Volume Control, I have been working with audio since ’83. Nothing out there in audio world works like that.

Anyway, this was supposed to be a thread: Is there a way to get rid of this undesirable behavior?

Thanks
Rob
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #8
kucing13

 

I don't know about that mate but I came across this software, Power Mixer
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #9
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

The problem lies on Windows Media Foundation layer... As far as I know, there's no cure for that behavior...
Here's what I do, I put the Master to max, adjust individual applications volume levels to my desired level, then after that I turn the master down, and never touch the Windows Mixer ever.

zzz2496
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 May 2010   #10
Aphelion

Windows 7 Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by 7hbg View Post
Hi
Zzz2496, your are on the same page as I am.
Fireberd, is not affected because he does everything within one application (at least that’s how I understand your workflow).

Hi Rob,

Fireberd, and myself don't suffer the same mixer problems because some 3rd party audio cards have their own mixer applications and the drivers do not attach themselves so deeply into the Windows audio subsystem. The M-Audio will show a volume control in the Windows mixer but it's always on full. My RME audio card doesn't even show up in Window's audio system.

Also, you mentioned:
>Here is how an XP mixer worked (and every mixer before it, as well as it’s analog
>counterpart): simply, each slider is independent.

This may be another example of dumbing down? To avoid distortion, accepted rules of gain staging almost always has the Master Volume as higher or equal to the highest individual channel volume. Same behavior as amplifiers with a master volume, turn the channel volume full and the Master to 2, a strong input signal will overdrive amp.

Ap
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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