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Windows 7: UAC problem for std user


30 Jun 2013   #1

windows 7
 
 
UAC problem for std user

I have an admin acct and a std user acct - I run in std user most of the time. It is becoming a PITA because it keeps asking me for an admin pw for just about anything. I tried to chg the UAC but it tells me I must be logged on as an admin user. If I do that I can chg the admin user but it does not affect the std user - it is stuck at level 3. if I chg the std user to admin I can chg UAC under the user login but if I go back and chg the login back to std user the UAC is back to level3. My purpose of running as a std user is for anti-virus reasons. I have a good AV program but it seems to me that some things that were installed invisibly when running as an admin user don't happen any more. I have read all the UAC issue posts I can find, but none r exactly my problem and no solutions fit either. I tried making std user a member of power users and others but that didn't do anything - unless I need to configure power users somehow. I even get prompts to allow ASUS utilities & help programs to run at boot up. 1. how can I chg the UAC for the std user? 2. will that stop all the prompts to run programs, and change things? If not is there anything I can do in the group policies to make some things work without UAC control? thx I can't even delete a shortcut from MY desktop without admin pw.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
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30 Jun 2013   #2

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

I'm sorry, but that's the entire point of using a standard user. Locking the user out of anything that might damage/screw up the PC. Standard user can only use normal programs already installed.

I suggest to run with an admin account, with UAC turned on at max safety AND the screen dimming thing when you see the popup.
That screen dimming and lag isn't just cosmetic and annoying.
It is supposed to lock down any other program and accept input ONLY from hardware keyboard and mouse (hence the lag).
This to avoid malware from simply doing its stuff and clicking Ok on the popup (which would be pretty trivial).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Jul 2013   #3

windows 7
 
 

thx for the reply BUT - why does my laptop respond differently - it is configured the same way and most of my programs run without entering the admin pw. I just tried setting 5 ASUS startup programs to Run as Admin for all users, but it still asks for a pw. Deleting an icon from MY desktop isn't a 'damaging' event - it is an icon and it is from MY desktop.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.


01 Jul 2013   #4

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote:
it is configured the same way and most of my programs run without entering the admin pw
Can you tell what programs require a password for your desktop that don't ask for it in your laptop? There might be something wrong after all.

Quote:
I just tried setting 5 ASUS startup programs to Run as Admin for all users, but it still asks for a pw.
This is how it was supposed to work. You run stuff normally without using passwords, and run stuff as admin only when you need it to, by writing the password to authorize.

Quote:
Deleting an icon from MY desktop isn't a 'damaging' event - it is an icon and it is from MY desktop.
You don't understand. The "standard user" is supposed to be an account with heavy restrictions in place, so that you can let a kid or a less-tech-savy person use the PC with such account to browse the Internet, watch movies and play games without worrying that it might re-format drives and delete random files.

As I already said, if you want more freedom, use an admin account with UAC.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Jul 2013   #5

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ruggb View Post
I just tried setting 5 ASUS startup programs to Run as Admin for all users, but it still asks for a pw
I guess you used the compatibility tab for setting it as run as admin for everyone. That DON'T means that you'll get a free elevation there regardless of the account, it just mens that it will show UAC prompts whenever it's run, it's more a convenience really, so you don't have to right-click=>run as admin every time.
Think about it. If it would let you elevate a standard user to an admin without asking for a pass, anyone would automagically get admin privileges, which defeats the whole purpose of using standard accounts in the first place.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ruggb View Post
Deleting an icon from MY desktop isn't a 'damaging' event - it is an icon and it is from MY desktop
Believe it or not, this prompt actually makes sense when you explore where that icon comes from. Both the desktop and start menu really comes from TWO places, one under each user profile (c:\users\whatever) where the owner has full access (without UAC of course) and everyone else have nothing, AND a system-wide location that comes from c:\programdata. This folder holds a common start menu and desktop, shared with all users. The final desktop everyone sees includes both items.
Long history short, those icons in programdata aren't really "yours", they're shared among all users, so if you delete that icon from your desktop, it would delete from everyone's. That's a system-wide change and as such, requires an UAC confimation.


The whole point of using UAC is really to get it to annoy you, but that annoyance is intended to get your attention to something that affects something more than just you, but the computer as a whole. There is alway the option to disable that, or trying to get used to it and pay the price for the extra layer of security.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Jul 2013   #6

windows 7
 
 

thx y'all a few more ??s if UAC is so good at top level, why is there so much advice for ppl to run as std user? what is the purpose of 'power user'? I set my user as a pwr user but see no difference. Is it a downgrade for an admin or upgrade for std?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Jul 2013   #7

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote:
why is there so much advice for ppl to run as std user?
Bulk of the user base is not tech-savy. Using standard user accounts helps keeping them away from stuff they don't understand. This increases the time that passes between the calls to tech-support.

Quote:
what is the purpose of 'power user'? I set my user as a pwr user but see no difference.
The Power Users group is maintained only for compatibility with legacy applications. Standard users in windows 7 don't have power users access regardless of what shenanigans you might be trying to pull with your system settings.

You can either be standard user or administrator. To change account privileges you need to open Control Panel (view by small icons) and select User Accounts, then your account name and then change account type.

If you turn the user into an admin, UAC will still pop up but will just ask "program X wants to run with admin privileges" Yes/No?, not the admin password. You either use keyboard or mouse to select and press Yes or No and that's it.

I believe I know enough to not need the UAC at max on my PC, so I left it at setting 3, "notify when program makes changes to computer". I get UAC popups for that and some other system-related folders/files that do it anyway.
Less than that is NOT recommended as less disables the screen dimming (they call it secure desktop), which is a BIG barrier for malware trying to run as admin.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Jul 2013   #8

Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit
 
 

Quote:
why is there so much advice for ppl to run as std user?
By default programs run with the same privileges as the account that started them. Usually that is a good thing. But when the program is malicious we have a dangerous situation. If you are logged as an admin the malicious program has those privileges as well. The entire computer is at it's mercy. A standard user does not have the power to make changes to the system so any malicious program they might run has little scope for damage.

UAC was introduced to make running as an admin safer. When UAC is operating an admin user actually has only standard user rights but can grant himself full admin rights when required. Any program asking to run with admin rights will need to be approved by the user.

But this has some problems too. It is well known that most users will not normally read error or warning messages. The UAC dialog is often seen as an intrusion, something to be dealt with in the most direct and quickest manner possible. When a malicious program brings up the UAC dialog it is often approved, the warning message never being read.

I believe that the Power User account was introduced with Windows 2000. This OS tightened up the security from NT4 and some older applications would not run with a standard account. The Power User account made this possible and was somewhat safer than making the user an administrator. But the bridge between "Power User" and "Administrator" is a narrow one that can be crossed by a sufficiently knowledgeable user. Obviously the details cannot be discussed here.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Jul 2013   #9

windows 7
 
 

thx for ur insight - good stuff
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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