Impossible to provent malware/rogueware on Windows?

Every time I do a clean install on someones PC and install any antivirus, they always end up installing garbage like toolbars and fake optimizers.

How is this possible? Because 99% of legit Windows programs these days come with toolbars/rogueware on their installers. So there's no way AV software could detect the malware, and even if they could, then it would be impossible to install many programs on Windows.

Sure you could tell someone to check for unwanted stuff when they install a program, but a lot of these installers do tricks like change 'next' buttons around, or have it install stuff by default and the user has to uncheck many things. Sorry, but the average users is not going to catch some of this stuff.

So why isn't MS doing anything about this and why don't other platforms like Mac have this malware-inside-installer problems.

It's been my experience that teaching is only useful and effective if those being taught are willing to learn.

dubya89 said:

Every time I do a clean install on someones PC and install any antivirus, they always end up installing garbage like toolbars and fake optimizers.

The problem isn't Windows or security software like MSE and Avast, the problem is you. You, the user, are the most effective defence against malware and crapware. Be wary where you step and Windows and any security software you installed will handle the rest.

Not wanting an AV installed isn't by itself a problem, though it does leave you open to more attacks should you tread carelessly. I've run Windows installs without any AV installed for a long time before MSE came out (everything else was unreliable or simply too bog heavy in resource usage back then), on the few occasions where I installed AV software to test drive them they always came back reporting a clean bill of health.

Of course, I did have stuff like NoScript installed and looked where I stepped and so forth, standard operating procedures as a responsible computer user and administrator. The thing that sits between the keyboard/mouse and the chair really makes all the difference in my experience.

King Arthur said:

The problem isn't Windows or security software like MSE and Avast, the problem is you. You, the user, are the most effective defence against malware and crapware. Be wary where you step and Windows and any security software you installed will handle the rest.

Good 'net practices will eliminate most risks of malicious intrusions.

whs said:

Some people just don't want to learn. I had a neighbor who called for help. He had mire malware than OS on his system. I fixed it and wanted to install an AV program. He did not want that. 4 weeks later he called again - apparently the same mess. I told him that he is on his own. Fortunately he lives on another street.

I'm glad they don't live on my street That's amazing. The same thing happened to a friend of mine that's fairly PC-savvy. He knows someone that 'net-surfs without a surfboard. My friend had to tell it like it is to the guy.

King Arthur said:

Not wanting an AV installed isn't by itself a problem, though it does leave you open to more attacks should you tread carelessly. I've run Windows installs without any AV installed for a long time before MSE came out (everything else was unreliable or simply too bog heavy in resource usage back then), on the few occasions where I installed AV software to test drive them they always came back reporting a clean bill of health.

Of course, I did have stuff like NoScript installed and looked where I stepped and so forth, standard operating procedures as a responsible computer user and administrator. The thing that sits between the keyboard/mouse and the chair really makes all the difference in my experience.

I have a couple of friends that are similar. They've yet to get infected with malware/viruses. I'm a safe 'net user but have been affected a couple of times over the last 10 years of home 'net use but haven't had any problems for more than a year. Recovery was not an issue though, since I backup the HDD periodically.

The last time that I was affected was interesting. I was at one of my daily reputable sites, with all of my Windows updates current, running my previous AV and MBAM Pro. I got hit with one of those "FBI" ransomware variants. I plugged in my spare cloned HDD and was running in a few minutes.

Occasionally, one can get affected when it would seem that they were practicing safe 'net habits. I contacted the Admin at that site and it appeared that the site was infected for a few hours around a Holiday time here in the States, last December, where they were understaffed and a malicious code was launched via 3rd-party adware of something similar.

Scoop said:

Occasionally, one can get affected when it would seem that they were practicing safe 'net habits. I contacted the Admin at that site and it appeared that the site was infected for a few hours around a Holiday time here in the States, last December, where they were understaffed and a malicious code was launched via 3rd-party adware of something similar.

3rd-party ad vendors have become notorious as of late for distributing malware in otherwise clean and trusted websites, it's one of the most prevalent paths of infection right up there with malicious email and flash drives. It's why addons like NoScript and Adblock Plus are quickly becoming requirements rather than a nice luxury if you want to browse the internet with any sense of safety or sanity.

King Arthur said:

3rd-party ad vendors have become notorious as of late for distributing malware in otherwise clean and trusted websites, it's one of the most prevalent paths of infection right up there with malicious email and flash drives. It's why addons like NoScript and Adblock Plus are quickly becoming requirements rather than a nice luxury if you want to browse the internet with any sense of safety or sanity.

Thanks for the info