UAC

JJP · Nov 5, 2009

I am a little puzzled by UAC in Windows 7 - though this was going to be much better than in Vista but I am not so sure.

With some programs UAC kicks in every time I run them asking for permission to "allow program to make changes to this computer" whereas it does not with others. All of these programs are being run by an administrator and each one has privilege level set up to run as an admininstrator so why the different behavious from UAC?

Is there some way to make the programs I use regularly and know to be safe to run without UAC kicking in?

Also, some of the program icons have a shield on them - what does that signify?

DarkXeno · Nov 5, 2009

The Shield shows that they are going to be run as Admin when you click on them.

As for the UAC it is much better than Vista's just takes some time to train it. Also you can change the setting in Control Panel to a lower one then what the default is set to.

Win7User512 · Nov 5, 2009

The UAC is a mixed bag. For the average user who isn't making many system changes, a lower setting can be good. If you are an advanced user always making system changes, any UAC setting above "Off" will be annoying as heck.

Keizer · Nov 5, 2009

Win7User512 said:
If you are an advanced user always making system changes, any UAC setting above "Off" will be annoying as heck.

I agree, and UAC was turned off immediately after my fresh install of Win 7. I do not need training wheels, and I am the only user of this PC.

Dzomlija · Nov 5, 2009

Keizer said:
Win7User512 said:

If you are an advanced user always making system changes, any UAC setting above "Off" will be annoying as heck.

Click to expand...

I agree, and UAC was turned off immediately after my fresh install of Win 7. I do not need training wheels, and I am the only user of this PC.

I too am an advanced user. The first thing I do after installing ANY Windows 7, even before installing any drivers, is to to turn up UAC to it's maximum setting, so that it behaves like it does in Vista.

I find it to be a good additional measure of defense should my anti-virus and/or firewall don't work as expected.

richc46 · Nov 5, 2009

Dzomlija said:
Keizer said:

Win7User512 said:

If you are an advanced user always making system changes, any UAC setting above "Off" will be annoying as heck.

Click to expand...

I agree, and UAC was turned off immediately after my fresh install of Win 7. I do not need training wheels, and I am the only user of this PC.

Click to expand...

I too am an advanced user. The first thing I do after installing ANY Windows 7, even before installing any drivers, is to to turn up UAC to it's maximum setting, so that it behaves like it does in Vista.

I find it to be a good additional measure of defense should my anti-virus and/or firewall don't work as expected.

I cannot call myself and advanced user, but I have learned a lot in the past year, since I am really taking an interest in computing, but I digress. I agree with the above poster. I leave UAC on, just to remind me that I am getting into programs that may cause problems if I do not adjust them properly. I also, leave it set, to inform me if the computer or some outsider is trying to make unauthorized changes. I go one step further, however. I have 3 accounts (I am the only user) 2 are administrative and the one I use is regular. It is my feeling that if I am using the regular account. I get a virus on the computer, there is very little that it can change and I will get a notice of a potential change. Furthermore, I would try to stay out of the Adm. accounts until the virus was removed or rendered harmless. Why, two adm accounts, that is another safety feature. If one becomes disabled, I have a back up. I really do not want to be locked out of an adm. account.

LPDad · Nov 5, 2009

Unfortunately, even running the UAC does not stop a lot of the new virus problems making the rounds:
Windows 7 vulnerable to 8 out of 10 viruses | Chester Wisniewski's Blog

Just have to be ever-vigilant.

logicearth · Nov 5, 2009

LPDad said:
Unfortunately, even running the UAC does not stop a lot of the new virus problems making the rounds:
Windows 7 vulnerable to 8 out of 10 viruses | Chester Wisniewski's Blog

Just have to be ever-vigilant.

UAC is not a security boundary that stops malware from installing if the user using the computer says allow. According to the computer malware is an application like the rest. And this blog about it is just ridiculous.

Been discussed in another thread:
http://www.sevenforums.com/system-security/35716-windows-7-vulnerable-8-out-10-viruses.html

What UAC allows a user to do is run with low privileges so if an application like IE or Firefox have a nasty exploit that allows an attacker to run any code they like, UAC will stop it and issue a notice asking if Firefox or IE should elevate to administrative rights. The exploit will not be able to compromise the system until it is given administrative powers from UAC. (This is of course assuming UAC is set to high.)

If you are running with administrative powers all the time (aka., UAC off) this is zero protection. Anti-virus and other security tools do not protect you against exploits in the software you are using.

pparks1 · Nov 5, 2009

Keizer said:
I agree, and UAC was turned off immediately after my fresh install of Win 7. I do not need training wheels, and I am the only user of this PC.

UAC does not equate to training wheels. At it's default setting, UAC in Windows 7 tells you when applications themselves try to gain administrative elevation. It does not tell you anymore when you do things that require administrative access.

I cannot imagine why people don't want to know when an application tries to elevate itself to admin on the box. Even if you are the super power user and know everything there is to know about the box....I would say that you might still be interested to know that some application potentially unknown to you at the moment is attempting to gain administrative rights.

It seems that SO MANY people are simply unaware of what UAC is designed to do. Honestly, if somebody thinks the UAC system is designed to stop a virus from infected a machine...they clearly have some more reading to do. And it's probably wise for them to begin this reading...rather than simply disabling UAC and moving on.

DarkXeno · Nov 5, 2009

pparks1 said:
Keizer said:

I agree, and UAC was turned off immediately after my fresh install of Win 7. I do not need training wheels, and I am the only user of this PC.

Click to expand...

UAC does not equate to training wheels. At it's default setting, UAC in Windows 7 tells you when applications themselves try to gain administrative elevation. It does not tell you anymore when you do things that require administrative access.

I cannot imagine why people don't want to know when an application tries to elevate itself to admin on the box. Even if you are the super power user and know everything there is to know about the box....I would say that you might still be interested to know that some application potentially unknown to you at the moment is attempting to gain administrative rights.

Knowing what is going on is the key to anything in computer software.
And remember it doesnt matter what level you have UAC running at, it all comes down to what the person sitting at the keyboard knows/cares about in the end.

pparks1 · Nov 5, 2009

LPDad said:
Unfortunately, even running the UAC does not stop a lot of the new virus problems making the rounds:
Windows 7 vulnerable to 8 out of 10 viruses | Chester Wisniewski's Blog

That was one of the most useless blog posts that I have ever read. I'm not sure why the author expected that the UAC system would stop malware from installing.

His conclusion: You still need anti-virus with Windows 7. Is there anybody on the planet who actually thought otherwise????

My conclusion: Some computer users should be required to obtain a license to blog before doing so.

esteban · Nov 5, 2009

Bit of a hijack, but is there a way to disable UAC for a single application? I think it's really stupid to have to click "allow" when I run Task Manager and other things.

I wouldn't mind it if it monitored non-sandboxed apps like Firefox or Thunderbird, but as a poweruser, I want to be able to open MSConfig or Task Manager without interruption.

logicearth · Nov 5, 2009

I wasn't exactly clear...But I want to make sure this point gets across.

UAC is not a security boundary but rather a convenience. A convenience so you do not have to run as administrator yet still be able to do administrative task without changing accounts.

logicearth · Nov 5, 2009

esteban said:
Bit of a hijack, but is there a way to disable UAC for a single application? I think it's really stupid to have to click "allow" when I run Task Manager and other things.

I wouldn't mind it if it monitored non-sandboxed apps like Firefox or Thunderbird, but as a poweruser, I want to be able to open MSConfig or Task Manager without interruption.

Sure....but then so could everything else inject its way into such a list and run with full admin privileges without consent. But no, no such method exists for good reason.

pparks1 · Nov 5, 2009

esteban said:
Bit of a hijack, but is there a way to disable UAC for a single application? I think it's really stupid to have to click "allow" when I run Task Manager and other things.

I wouldn't mind it if it monitored non-sandboxed apps like Firefox or Thunderbird, but as a poweruser, I want to be able to open MSConfig or Task Manager without interruption.

Sorry for the hijack,

Back on topic, on my Windows 7 box, I have UAC enabled, it's on the 3rd tick mark (defaults)....and I can open both Task Manager as well as msconfig without any prompts whatsoever.

You must have your UAC all the way to the max....which prompts when YOU, the admin does something specifically which requires admin level control. Bring it down 1 tick mark and then it won't nag unless the application itself tries to gain admin rights.

Barman58 · Nov 5, 2009

esteban said:
Bit of a hijack, but is there a way to disable UAC for a single application? I think it's really stupid to have to click "allow" when I run Task Manager and other things.

I wouldn't mind it if it monitored non-sandboxed apps like Firefox or Thunderbird, but as a poweruser, I want to be able to open MSConfig or Task Manager without interruption.

The default setting for UAC (one from top), does not prompt for either MSConfig or Taskmanager, well it doesn't for me anyway

richc46 · Nov 5, 2009

Barman58 said:
esteban said:

Bit of a hijack, but is there a way to disable UAC for a single application? I think it's really stupid to have to click "allow" when I run Task Manager and other things.

I wouldn't mind it if it monitored non-sandboxed apps like Firefox or Thunderbird, but as a poweruser, I want to be able to open MSConfig or Task Manager without interruption.

Click to expand...

The default setting for UAC (one from top), does not prompt for either MSConfig or Taskmanager, well it doesn't for me anyway

I do not get a prompt for task manager, but if I make a change I am notified that I must use an administrators account.

Barman58 · Nov 5, 2009

I think that the UAC prompt when using Taskmanager or MSConfig to change something depends on the actual item you are attempting to change

if you are attempting to stop a system process then I am, personally, willing to accept the UAC prompt as this is a useful checkpoint

Others have a right of course to have there own opinions, which is why UAC is configurable

JJP · Nov 5, 2009

But how does UAC decide when to kick in - for instance I have a tax return program which loads without UAC coming in but with a payroll program it asks for permisson each time.

Barman58 · Nov 5, 2009

There are several triggers for the UAC prompting for elevation ...

If the program is designed with the requirement. this is complicated as many older programs designed for XP, where the norm is to run as admin, are set this way although they have no need to be because the programming is simpler for the developer.

If the program needs to access data that does not have permissions set for a standard user then the prompt will be triggered. This happens with a standard admin user as the user is actually running as a standard user.

You can also stipulate that a program always runs with admin rights by use of the compatibility mode

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