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Windows 7: Permissions & programs

06 Jun 2010   #1

windows 7
 
 
Permissions & programs

Problem

I create folder Foo, and am therefore the owner.

I create and own every subfolder and file within folder Foo.

However, program zot.exe (which I start, and is presumably running as me) is unable to move folder Foo\a to Foo\moved\a (yes, folder Foo\moved exists). An access denied error occurs.

Running zot.exe as administrator does not help.

I open the properties for folder Foo (on a FAT drive).

There is no "security" tab. I therefore click sharing/advanced sharing/permissions/add.

I type in the word "everyone".

I give "Everyone" full control.

Program zot is still unable to move folder foo\a to foo\moved\a (access denied).

The process of changing permissions seems overmuch to me, but admitedly, such permission changing is not likely to be done often.

My real complaint is "it doesn't work".

Please don't tell me how to avoid UAC messages. There is no UAC message.

I can move the folder from explorer (I am an administrator and no UAC message pesters me).

My problem is not a UAC message - it's that the program is unable to move a folder because access is denied.

Thanks in advance.

Post Problem Rant

I hate Windows 7 permissions.

Over 25 years ago, I found unix permissions to be a good and adequate solution for the environment in which I worked.

I recall no problems getting them "to work".

I would very much like to eliminate file permission checking on all my Windows 7 machines.

It would be nice to leave it enabled only for folders such as "windows" and "program files" containing executables (including, of course, DLL's).

If that is infeasible, I'd like to eliminate it entirely. The protection it provides is far from worth the problems it causes.

I have seen posts criticizing windows permissions, and responses stating that the files in the windows folder are protected for a reason, etc - even though the original poster said nothing about any kind of "system" folder.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

07 Jun 2010   #2

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by snod View Post
Problem

I create folder Foo, and am therefore the owner.

I create and own every subfolder and file within folder Foo.

However, program zot.exe (which I start, and is presumably running as me) is unable to move folder Foo\a to Foo\moved\a (yes, folder Foo\moved exists). An access denied error occurs.

Running zot.exe as administrator does not help.

I open the properties for folder Foo (on a FAT drive).

There is no "security" tab. I therefore click sharing/advanced sharing/permissions/add.

I type in the word "everyone".

I give "Everyone" full control.

Program zot is still unable to move folder foo\a to foo\moved\a (access denied).

The process of changing permissions seems overmuch to me, but admitedly, such permission changing is not likely to be done often.

My real complaint is "it doesn't work".

Please don't tell me how to avoid UAC messages. There is no UAC message.

I can move the folder from explorer (I am an administrator and no UAC message pesters me).

My problem is not a UAC message - it's that the program is unable to move a folder because access is denied.

Thanks in advance.

Post Problem Rant

I hate Windows 7 permissions.

Over 25 years ago, I found unix permissions to be a good and adequate solution for the environment in which I worked.

I recall no problems getting them "to work".

I would very much like to eliminate file permission checking on all my Windows 7 machines.

It would be nice to leave it enabled only for folders such as "windows" and "program files" containing executables (including, of course, DLL's).

If that is infeasible, I'd like to eliminate it entirely. The protection it provides is far from worth the problems it causes.

I have seen posts criticizing windows permissions, and responses stating that the files in the windows folder are protected for a reason, etc - even though the original poster said nothing about any kind of "system" folder.
You have strong feelings about Windows 7 permissions. From your description those feelings are due to misunderstanding of Windows filesystem security and access semantics. Your example seems to be hypothetical and as such is impossible to troubleshoot but I will present the following facts:

1) You state that folder Foo is created on a FAT volume. FAT volumes do not support the concept of ownership or permissions. The absence of the security tab supports this.

2) We are unaware of the filesystem operations that program zot.exe is performing so we are unable to determine if zot.exe is written correctly.

3) Sharing permissions apply only to the file server service exactly as NFS permissions apply on *nix. They do not apply to local access.

4) You are missing the concept of a process's current working directory. If a process has "opened" a directory for file operations you cannot just "pull the rug out" from under it by moving it. Likely zot.exe has set the CWD and is trying to remove it just like rmdir cannot remove it's current working directory -- you have to cd.. first.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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