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Windows 7: Windows Mail


03 Feb 2013   #1290
roncerr

Windows 8 Pro w/MC 32-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
...The the current tut should prevent the issue through a registry key mod...Besides, I don't think MS is doing any maint on WM.
The recent comments were prompted by these posts:
1) Windows Mail
2) Windows Mail

1) Has the missing dll issue for Windows 8 been corrected or mentioned in the tutorial?
2) Does WM in Windows 7 or 8 still work after doing a system file check (sfc /scannow)? (I'm not sure how a registry key mod can affect the sfc test.)


My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Feb 2013   #1291
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

1) Have you run the tutorial Ron?
2) Did SFC break WM on Win7?

I spent a good deal of time writing and testing the tut. Endeavor tested it. About 5 other people have tested it and no one has reported issues. On the contrary, the two most recent posts stated the tut worked!

With regards to Win8 - it doesn't apply to this tutorial. RKelly needed somplece to write about his Win8 / WM experience and that's great, it will help others.

If you have issues that need to be addressed specific to Win7 and this tutorial, I've always said I will update the tut. It is not within the scope of this tut or this forum to answer all questions about all platforms (i.e. Win8) or about all related aplets (i.e. Calendar).

If you tried the tut or took the time to look at the files in the download, the questions you ask would be moot.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Feb 2013   #1292
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

You might want to post this on the Calendar tutorial. Someone over there might have a better idea of the internals.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RKelly5327 View Post
..... After I did this WIndows Mail launched right off the bat.

However I cannot get Calendar to work in 8. I followed the tute for Calendar, right to a T. Alll went well up to where I was to select the Reminders file. That part seemed to work okay, but when I tried to select the configuration OS at the bottom, I got an error message saying "the specified account name is not valid."

I tried it for all of the options, but none worked. I have no idea what the error message is talking about, nor where to even find the name of the mystery accout so I can remedy it.

Ron K.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Feb 2013   #1293
RKelly5327

 
 

SlartyBart- the tut worked great. I didn't have any problems at all with it. I was just trying to do the same thing with 8 to see how it would work. That's when I ran across the info about the missing dll file. So far I haven't been able to get Calendar to work in 8, but that's really no big deal. It all works fine in 7 and that's the main thing.
RK
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Feb 2013   #1294
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

RKelly: Thanks again, it helps everyone understand. Have you tried asking a question in the Calendar tutorial? You might get better feedback there.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RKelly5327 View Post
SlartyBart- the tut worked great. I didn't have any problems at all with it. I was just trying to do the same thing with 8 to see how it would work. That's when I ran across the info about the missing dll file. So far I haven't been able to get Calendar to work in 8, but that's really no big deal. It all works fine in 7 and that's the main thing.
RK
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 Feb 2013   #1295
endeavor

Vista/Win7/Win8/Win10
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by RKelly5327 View Post
[...] I know some have done the same with Windows 8, which I tried to do but could not get Mail to launch in 8. I hunted all around the net and found that 8 was lacking a dll file- msidcrl30.dll. The following is what I found that makes it work in 8. [...]
Many of us have it installed on Win8 already.
All the information that you posted was covered a few pages back on post 1328
and before that on post 1247 with the links where to go to get the information to do it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Feb 2013   #1296
Renamo3

Win7Pro(HP)(x64)
 
 

I have not run through the entire thread so possibly what I am saying could have been mentioned previously.
Although I had no problem installing WM on W7Pro(64bit) with the tut as of 2012-05-19 (page I saved *.mht and *.pdf at the time), thanks to SlartyBart, it did not resolve the "time stamp" issue I have with *.eml files on W7, in that their "modified date" is changed when using the W7 search or browsing a Folder (DIR) with Windows Explorer (WE) to "current date". I had just hoped that by installing WM changes would be made to the registry that would prevent this annoying feature of W7 from happening. It is not very conducive to data integrity in the OS and after searching for solutions during which I found some very lame reasons on one of the MS-Answer Forums, why the OS is behaving this way. Has this issue been raised in this thread?

I am still using OE6 on a WXP-Pro-SP3 VMware machine on my W7Pro(64bit) box for my e-Mails side-stepping W7-Updates from removing the WM, bypassing the lack of W7 drivers for our office printer and have also stopped saving e-Mails to Hard drive (HDD) in the *.eml format. The latter dose not resolve the date issue on the W7Box for existing files, some of which are +10years old. The date issue of course dose not happen if I search or browse from within the WXP-VM-Box on the same HDD!
Of course I use a work around in the form of a "live" backup but it is time consuming and laborious when syncing as the *.eml files that have had their dates changed, due to a search or browsing, will show up as newer versions of the same file.

The eventual migration from OE to OL (Outlook) and Schedule to OL is a dark cloud on the horizon that I still have to face in order to come in line with the rest of the office and my smartphone (iPhone).

I know that this is not directly pertaining to installing WM on W7 but at least you have feedback that the tut is great and works fine and the issue relates to WM (OE) on W7.
Looking forward to some constructive input.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Feb 2013   #1297
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Renamo3: I apprciate your feedback and sympathisize with you on the eMail variations (shortcomings). You're using OE in an XP Virtual Machine on Win7 an you have WM reinstated on Win7.

I'm not sure that I understand the rest of the issue, though. There are a lot of concerns expressed and I'm want to be certain anything suggested fits your needs.

OE stores the eMail in .dbx fles, extracting (exporting/saving as eml) creates a new file, hence a new date. I'll need your help testing this as two of my machines bit the dust over the past year. My memory is good, but limited.

Does using Win7 search with eMail filters help as a workaround?
In the search box enter:
type:eml

then arrange the resulting window to include the following column headings
date sent
date received
date created
date modified
To
From
Subject

This is a sticky wicket, there are a number of factors affecting the issue - the OS and eMail client(s)

Before I suggest anything, I'll need to reasrch; and sine my older machines bit the dust, I'll need your help
This will take some time and I'm not sure there is a good answer, but if you're will, so am I
Let's start with: What import / export options exist in both OE and WM.
If we can go from OE .dbx format to .eml format and preserve the internal dates - great.

The file creation/modification dates cannot be altered unless you use a third party utility (on Unix it's touch). I used one utility a very long time ago (Win98 perhaps), so more research is needed. I really don't like using third party solutions unless there is no native Windows feature and.... and it is absolutely necessary. The user assumes all risks of mucking with file timestamps.

Your intermediate goal is to migrate from OE to WM reinstated on Win7, and then eventually to Outlook - correct? I'd like to suggest going from OE to OL without WM in between. There are a few bumps from OE to WM and a few more from WM to OL.

Some references you might want to review:
Import messages into Windows Mail from Outlook Express (don't worry about it saying Vista... Vista or Win7 is more correct, but MS didn't include WM in Win7, so they didn't change it)

Import your messages or account from Outlook Express to Outlook - Outlook - Office.com


Attached Thumbnails
-search_eml.png  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Feb 2013   #1298
Renamo3

Win7Pro(HP)(x64)
 
 

Slartybart: Confirmative to your first statement
"using OE6 in a WXP VM(VMware) on W7 and WM reinstated on W7".

I am not speaking of saving an e-Mail to disk from OE6 *.dbx (database) in *.eml format now as that will obviously use the date the file is saved to HDD as "modified date". Windows 7 changes the "modified date" of already existing *.eml files to the "current date" when using the search, browsing a folder or hovering over the file with the mouse.
Say you have a file mark.eml with a modified date 2001-10-26 on your HDD and you execute any of the functions mentioned above the W7 OS will change the "modified date" to 2013-02-10.

The W7 search with e-Mail filters, "type:eml" compound the issue, especially if you do the search from root e.g. D:\ as it will change all *.eml files "modified date" to the current date on that drive. Do not try this on files for which you need to maintain the date integrity, if you do not have a back up on a machine with an older OS (pre Vista).

The date issue is a very sticky one and has been around since WVista was put on the market. Microsoft is very much aware of it and has probably hoped that it would go away with users using new mail-clients and in line with their general thinking on upgrading and end of life policies. Of course the other thing is how many users really keep e-Mail files for years and how many check the date integrity of their files on HDD.

Nevertheless I am more than happy to help and expound this issue. I too will need some time to review my notes on the issue as it is a while since I last worked on it.

I have not come across a problem to go: "from OE .dbx format to .eml format and preserve the internal dates",
even with very old *.dbx files that I have used as backups, removed from OE6 Folder and Index and then opened them up again in OE6 at a much later stage by creating a *.dbx folder in OE6 with the same name as my backup, then copying an arbitrary mail to the new folder, closing OE6, overwriting the *.dbx with my backup and reopening OE6 to access e-Mails in the backup *.dbx. This method also works for WE and keeps the "live data" in the program down to a reasonable size especially if saving the "Deleted Items" *.dbx from time to time.

I also "really don't like using third party solutions unless there is no native Windows feature" or "Hack".
The issue at hand is that W7 as OS is "mucking with file timestamps"

No I have no intentions of "migrate from OE to WM reinstated on Windows 7". As stated I only installed WM in the hope of resolving the "timestamps" issue on the W7 box. I will use the OL on the WXP-WM to migrate from OE6 to OL03k and then use the *.pst file to migrate to the W7 box, just as you suggested. This will only happen once I have figured out how to migrate my extensive *.wab Address Book to OL-Contacts without loosing the *.wab internal folder structure and found a resolution to the office printer driver on W7.

Back to the issue at hand: *.eml FileType arbitrary "timestamp" modification in Windows 7
I have found my notes, which are in a *.doc file with embedded local and INet links impossible to extract all to this post so I have uploaded it as an attachment. Take your time going through it and have fun.
References to machines mentioned in the file are:
"SERVER" = W2kSVR, ASUS P2B-DS, 1MB-RAM, 72GB-SCSI-HDDs (WinMirrors) C:\=OS and D:\=Data
"DUNE1" = W7Pro(64bit)-SP1, HP-ProBook-4520s, 4MB-RAM, 300GB-HDD C:\=OS and D:\=Data
"JUPITER" = VMware-Workstation(7.1.1 build-282343) WXP-Pro-SP3, 2MB-RAM, 40GB-VHDD C:\=OS (no Data Drive)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Feb 2013   #1299
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

@Renamo: Great information, thanks.

To keep the focus of this tutorial on reinstating WM on Win7 and the issue your machine has is OE / Win7, please open a new thread in Browsers & Mail - Windows 7 Support Forums. You'll get more people looking at a solution. Post a link to the new thread here and I'll follow it.

In the meantime, I'll read the doc you attached.

I'll double check this, but I don't believe that I've ever seen Windows changing the dates of exisitng files unless something does actually affect the date. Each machine is different so who knows?
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3 View Post
..... Windows 7 changes the "modified date" of already existing *.eml files to the "current date" when using the search, browsing a folder or hovering over the file with the mouse.
Say you have a file mark.eml with a modified date 2001-10-26 on your HDD and you execute any of the functions mentioned above the W7 OS will change the "modified date" to 2013-02-10.
I know I've never seen Windows search change dates - that's very odd that it happens on your machine. It would be helpful to see a screen shot of the issue you describe. Show both examples, I guess one from OE (correct date) and one from Windows search using the coulmns I suggested (dates differ).

If you take a look at the attached search in post# 1361, you'll see all of the dates are different (mostly). These are existing .eml files on my machine.

There definitely is a change to the way dates are presented in Win7 (not sure about Vista) - I believe the generic Date field is used to simplify date presentation (sent / received / created /modified).

Please make a backup to avoid the issue you describe
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3 View Post
..... The W7 search with e-Mail filters, "type:eml" compound the issue, especially if you do the search from root e.g. D:\ as it will change all *.eml files "modified date" to the current date on that drive. Do not try this on files for which you need to maintain the date integrity, if you do not have a back up on a machine with an older OS (pre Vista).
Ok, I'm confused... I must not understand the issue - I thought this was the issue. Open a new thread, I'll read your doc.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3 View Post
..... I have not come across a problem to go: "from OE .dbx format to .eml format and preserve the internal dates", even with very old *.dbx files ...
..... This method also works for WE and keeps the "live data" in the program down to a reasonable size especially if saving the "Deleted Items" *.dbx from time to time.
..... The issue at hand is that W7 as OS is "mucking with file timestamps"

No I have no intentions of "migrate from OE to WM reinstated on Windows 7". As stated I only installed WM in the hope of resolving the "timestamps" issue on the W7 box. I will use the OL on the WXP-WM to migrate from OE6 to OL03k and then use the *.pst file to migrate to the W7 box, just as you suggested.
OE and OL store contacts differently, you won't be able to preserve the "wab" format. You can always keep the wab on file, it's just that OL won't actually use it. You'll need to import the contacts to OL. Again, this will take some testing, but I think you'll still be able to open the WAB, just not in OL.

I'm not certain, but I seem to recall that some contacts fields (group/category) just can't get migrated to OL. Same is true for WE. It is a pain, but a one time manual "reorg" solves that.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3 View Post
..... migrate my extensive *.wab Address Book to OL-Contacts without loosing the *.wab internal folder structure and found a resolution to the office printer driver on W7.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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