Windows 7: Windows Mail

I have not run through the entire thread so possibly what I am saying could have been mentioned previously.
Although I had no problem installing WM on W7Pro(64bit) with the tut as of 2012-05-19 (page I saved *.mht and *.pdf at the time), thanks to SlartyBart, it did not resolve the "time stamp" issue I have with *.eml files on Windows 7, in that their "modified date" is changed when using the Windows 7 search or browsing a Folder (DIR) with Windows Explorer (WE) to "current date". I had just hoped that by installing WM changes would be made to the registry that would prevent this annoying feature of Windows 7 from happening. It is not very conducive to data integrity in the OS and after searching for solutions during which I found some very lame reasons on one of the MS-Answer Forums, why the OS is behaving this way. Has this issue been raised in this thread?

I am still using OE6 on a WXP-Pro-SP3 VMware machine on my W7Pro(64bit) box for my e-Mails side-stepping Windows 7-Updates from removing the WM, bypassing the lack of Windows 7 drivers for our office printer and have also stopped saving e-Mails to Hard drive (HDD) in the *.eml format. The latter dose not resolve the date issue on the W7Box for existing files, some of which are +10years old. The date issue of course dose not happen if I search or browse from within the WXP-VM-Box on the same HDD!
Of course I use a work around in the form of a "live" backup but it is time consuming and laborious when syncing as the *.eml files that have had their dates changed, due to a search or browsing, will show up as newer versions of the same file.

The eventual migration from OE to OL (Outlook) and Schedule to OL is a dark cloud on the horizon that I still have to face in order to come in line with the rest of the office and my smartphone (iPhone).

I know that this is not directly pertaining to installing WM on Windows 7 but at least you have feedback that the tut is great and works fine and the issue relates to WM (OE) on Windows 7.
Looking forward to some constructive input.

Renamo3: I apprciate your feedback and sympathisize with you on the eMail variations (shortcomings). You're using OE in an XP Virtual Machine on Windows 7 an you have WM reinstated on Windows 7.

I'm not sure that I understand the rest of the issue, though. There are a lot of concerns expressed and I'm want to be certain anything suggested fits your needs.

OE stores the eMail in .dbx fles, extracting (exporting/saving as eml) creates a new file, hence a new date. I'll need your help testing this as two of my machines bit the dust over the past year. My memory is good, but limited.

Does using Windows 7 search with eMail filters help as a workaround?
In the search box enter:
type:eml

then arrange the resulting window to include the following column headings
date sent
date received
date created
date modified
To
From
Subject

This is a sticky wicket, there are a number of factors affecting the issue - the OS and eMail client(s)

Before I suggest anything, I'll need to reasrch; and sine my older machines bit the dust, I'll need your help
This will take some time and I'm not sure there is a good answer, but if you're will, so am I
Let's start with: What import / export options exist in both OE and WM.
If we can go from OE .dbx format to .eml format and preserve the internal dates - great.

The file creation/modification dates cannot be altered unless you use a third party utility (on Unix it's touch). I used one utility a very long time ago (Win98 perhaps), so more research is needed. I really don't like using third party solutions unless there is no native Windows feature and.... and it is absolutely necessary. The user assumes all risks of mucking with file timestamps.

Your intermediate goal is to migrate from OE to WM reinstated on Windows 7, and then eventually to Outlook - correct? I'd like to suggest going from OE to OL without WM in between. There are a few bumps from OE to WM and a few more from WM to OL.

Some references you might want to review:
Import messages into Windows Mail from Outlook Express (don't worry about it saying Vista... Vista or Windows 7 is more correct, but MS didn't include WM in Windows 7, so they didn't change it)

Import your messages or account from Outlook Express to Outlook - Outlook - Office.com

Slartybart: Confirmative to your first statement
"using OE6 in a WXP VM(VMware) on Windows 7 and WM reinstated on Windows 7".

I am not speaking of saving an e-Mail to disk from OE6 *.dbx (database) in *.eml format now as that will obviously use the date the file is saved to HDD as "modified date". Windows 7 changes the "modified date" of already existing *.eml files to the "current date" when using the search, browsing a folder or hovering over the file with the mouse.
Say you have a file mark.eml with a modified date 2001-10-26 on your HDD and you execute any of the functions mentioned above the Windows 7 OS will change the "modified date" to 2013-02-10.

The Windows 7 search with e-Mail filters, "type:eml" compound the issue, especially if you do the search from root e.g. D:\ as it will change all *.eml files "modified date" to the current date on that drive. Do not try this on files for which you need to maintain the date integrity, if you do not have a back up on a machine with an older OS (pre Vista).

The date issue is a very sticky one and has been around since WVista was put on the market. Microsoft is very much aware of it and has probably hoped that it would go away with users using new mail-clients and in line with their general thinking on upgrading and end of life policies. Of course the other thing is how many users really keep e-Mail files for years and how many check the date integrity of their files on HDD.

Nevertheless I am more than happy to help and expound this issue. I too will need some time to review my notes on the issue as it is a while since I last worked on it.

I have not come across a problem to go: "from OE .dbx format to .eml format and preserve the internal dates",
even with very old *.dbx files that I have used as backups, removed from OE6 Folder and Index and then opened them up again in OE6 at a much later stage by creating a *.dbx folder in OE6 with the same name as my backup, then copying an arbitrary mail to the new folder, closing OE6, overwriting the *.dbx with my backup and reopening OE6 to access e-Mails in the backup *.dbx. This method also works for WE and keeps the "live data" in the program down to a reasonable size especially if saving the "Deleted Items" *.dbx from time to time.

I also "really don't like using third party solutions unless there is no native Windows feature" or "Hack".
The issue at hand is that Windows 7 as OS is "mucking with file timestamps"

No I have no intentions of "migrate from OE to WM reinstated on Windows 7". As stated I only installed WM in the hope of resolving the "timestamps" issue on the Windows 7 box. I will use the OL on the WXP-WM to migrate from OE6 to OL03k and then use the *.pst file to migrate to the Windows 7 box, just as you suggested. This will only happen once I have figured out how to migrate my extensive *.wab Address Book to OL-Contacts without loosing the *.wab internal folder structure and found a resolution to the office printer driver on Windows 7.

Back to the issue at hand: *.eml FileType arbitrary "timestamp" modification in Windows 7
I have found my notes, which are in a *.doc file with embedded local and INet links impossible to extract all to this post so I have uploaded it as an attachment. Take your time going through it and have fun.
References to machines mentioned in the file are:
"SERVER" = W2kSVR, ASUS P2B-DS, 1MB-RAM, 72GB-SCSI-HDDs (WinMirrors) C:\=OS and D:\=Data
"DUNE1" = W7Pro(64bit)-SP1, HP-ProBook-4520s, 4MB-RAM, 300GB-HDD C:\=OS and D:\=Data
"JUPITER" = VMware-Workstation(7.1.1 build-282343) WXP-Pro-SP3, 2MB-RAM, 40GB-VHDD C:\=OS (no Data Drive)

@Renamo: Great information, thanks.

To keep the focus of this tutorial on reinstating WM on Windows 7 and the issue your machine has is OE / Windows 7, please open a new thread in Browsers & Mail - Windows 7 Support Forums. You'll get more people looking at a solution. Post a link to the new thread here and I'll follow it.

In the meantime, I'll read the doc you attached.

I'll double check this, but I don't believe that I've ever seen Windows changing the dates of exisitng files unless something does actually affect the date. Each machine is different so who knows?

   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3

..... Windows 7 changes the "modified date" of already existing *.eml files to the "current date" when using the search, browsing a folder or hovering over the file with the mouse.
Say you have a file mark.eml with a modified date 2001-10-26 on your HDD and you execute any of the functions mentioned above the Windows 7 OS will change the "modified date" to 2013-02-10.

I know I've never seen Windows search change dates - that's very odd that it happens on your machine. It would be helpful to see a screen shot of the issue you describe. Show both examples, I guess one from OE (correct date) and one from Windows search using the coulmns I suggested (dates differ).

If you take a look at the attached search in post# 1361, you'll see all of the dates are different (mostly). These are existing .eml files on my machine.

There definitely is a change to the way dates are presented in Windows 7 (not sure about Vista) - I believe the generic Date field is used to simplify date presentation (sent / received / created /modified).

Please make a backup to avoid the issue you describe

   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3

..... The Windows 7 search with e-Mail filters, "type:eml" compound the issue, especially if you do the search from root e.g. D:\ as it will change all *.eml files "modified date" to the current date on that drive. Do not try this on files for which you need to maintain the date integrity, if you do not have a back up on a machine with an older OS (pre Vista).

Ok, I'm confused... I must not understand the issue - I thought this was the issue. Open a new thread, I'll read your doc.

   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3

..... I have not come across a problem to go: "from OE .dbx format to .eml format and preserve the internal dates", even with very old *.dbx files ...
..... This method also works for WE and keeps the "live data" in the program down to a reasonable size especially if saving the "Deleted Items" *.dbx from time to time.
..... The issue at hand is that Windows 7 as OS is "mucking with file timestamps"

No I have no intentions of "migrate from OE to WM reinstated on Windows 7". As stated I only installed WM in the hope of resolving the "timestamps" issue on the Windows 7 box. I will use the OL on the WXP-WM to migrate from OE6 to OL03k and then use the *.pst file to migrate to the Windows 7 box, just as you suggested.

OE and OL store contacts differently, you won't be able to preserve the "wab" format. You can always keep the wab on file, it's just that OL won't actually use it. You'll need to import the contacts to OL. Again, this will take some testing, but I think you'll still be able to open the WAB, just not in OL.

I'm not certain, but I seem to recall that some contacts fields (group/category) just can't get migrated to OL. Same is true for WE. It is a pain, but a one time manual "reorg" solves that.

   Quote: Originally Posted by Renamo3

..... migrate my extensive *.wab Address Book to OL-Contacts without loosing the *.wab internal folder structure and found a resolution to the office printer driver on Windows 7.

@Slartybart: Sorry I confused you. After you have read my file and followed some of the links in the file a lot will make more sense. I am certainly not the only one that has experienced the *.eml FileType arbitrary "timestamp" modification in Windows 7 issue and Microsoft has confirmed that it happens and given a reason for it too.

A warning on opening a *wab file in Windows 7. The entire content is captured by Windows 7 "Contacts". Can become a real mess.

@Renamo: Yeah, that's quite a book. After reading it, I don't think I'm qualified to help as I think itlies in the Server-Client arena.

EDIT: A quick look in Technet took me here. This is only a reference, not a suggested solution. It certainly sounds similar to the issue you're describing. The HOTfix is quite old, another reason I ask you be be absolutely clear on the versions.
DO NOT apply the hotifx in the link.

At this point, I simply guessing.

Please open a new thread as I previously asked and I'll request help from other members.

Please make sure that all of the versions and names of Servers and clients match. I read the doc and saw

DUNE1 Win7Pro(x64) and JUGASVR W08R2SVR

but when I went back to your post 1362, I saw

"SERVER" = W2kSVR
"DUNE1" = W7Pro(64bit)-SP1

I'm asking so that no one suggests updating software that you already update Windows 7 to Windows 7-SP1. I think you recorded the process you tried very well.

When you open a new thread, please indicate the registry changes you've made to which OS. I'll check for a new thread as this is not within the scope of this tutorial.

Thanks.

@Slartybart: Thank you for reading the file.
From my previous research I have concluded that their is little that can be done to any of the MS-OSs (Server and Client) after Vista without compromising some other features of the OS when applying a Registry edit and/or uninstalling WM from Windows 7, to resolve the issue caused by the way the Alternate Data Stream (ADS) is handled since Vista and which is already discussed in depth at:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-files/why-do-eml-files-modified-date-change-on-mouseover/d6b92680-9200-4731-932f-b45c0c8187dd
http://www.sevenforums.com/browsers-mail/35334-eml-files-timestamps-updated-constantly.html
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/itprovistasp/thread/8dc21ddc-9c87-40f6-a43e-96325ea14f96
http://forums.techguy.org/windows-vista/704204-old-file-dates-change-today.html
O by the way, the manor in which ADS is handled since Vista also got rid of some very useful Meta Data Tabs, like "Summary". Reading some of the MS design team blogs and forums showed me that they were very much aware of what they were doing but more or less opted for the easy way out although I am sure they would disagree with me strongly. After this post their really is no need for a new thread.

The TechNet link dose touch a related issue.

As to the "versions and names of Servers and Clients matching" I omitted to mention "JUGASVR" in my previous post when I listed the machines mentioned in my notes, as I had overlooked it when I re-read them. Also, remember that the notes were written for my own use not for uploading and a machine name is all I needed for identification.
To clear this up I do run W08R2SVR-SP1; W08SBS; W7Pro(64bit)-SP1; WXP-Pro-SP3; W2kSVR-SP4+; W2k-Pro-SP4+; W98SE and DOS6.22 on different physical machines or VMs (VMware and MS-VPC04).

Thanks for your time, effort and interest

Here is a screenshot of the effects of ADS on the "modified date". The DIR (Folder) shown on the right was browsed and some of the dates where changed to the current date. The compare was done with a live back up using Beyond Compare ver3.2.4bld13298, an excellent peace of software if you are as freaky and geeky about back ups as I am and with many more features, some of which I have no idea on how to use.

Hi, I have been through over 50 pages of all very good info here, however none of the links for 64bit versions of WinMail or it's associated WinMail Calendar work.

I Have WinMail on a Vista 32 bit desktop now, and I need the 64 bit files to make it work on my newer 64 bit Windows 7 laptop.

If anyone would have links to 64 bit WinMail and it's Calendar, or could send the files to me, I would be tremendously appreciative!

THANK You!

I think the links that are shown in post 1 of both this and the Windows Calendar tutorials still work though don't they?
Here you go fresh from my own Vista, see attached,