Windows Mail

Greg S said:

Ahh, I just now noticed that the Windows Mail help file doesn't work either. I could have sworn at one time that it did, I guess not. I did find the mail.h1s help file in Vista, replaced it in Win 7 but it was a no show.

Hi Greg S, If there is a downloadable CHM version of the Compiled Microsoft Help file mail.h1s (e.g. Office 2010 Beta Resource Kit Technical Library (Office2010BetaResKit 2.chm) in Compiled Help format [http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=e6dcc787-4653-49da-aeef-564a64dd4ac5]), then after it was downloaded, a simple shortcut to desktop would solve the problem. Alas, I could not find a CHM version of mail.h1s. Had Windows Mail been offered as an "upgrade" option to Windows XP users, there may have been hope.

As you so ingeniously discovered re: using all Vista Windows Mail files vs. using all Win7 Windows Mail files except the Win7 msoe.dll, the ideal would be to use the Win7 mail.h1s file. In addition to the Vista mail.h1s being a foreign help file, it may not have the same links within all of Win7 help as Win7 mail.h1s.

The question is, whether Win7 mail.h1s was disabled itself? (in which case Vista mail.h1s may be the only option), or if it was just disabled through the registry and/or a help file permissions problem.

A security vector resulting from the ability to add help files has been exploited by malware, so Windows uses Microsoft Help Validator Files along with C:\Windows\helppane.exe (Microsoft Help and Support) to minimize that security vector. Win7 mail.h1s may require permissions to be reinstated, for which: takeown & icalcs (Take Ownership.reg) or SubInACL may be required in order for a user to be granted the permission, to grant the permissions for Win7 mail.h1s. I found these files on Win7 Ult.x64:

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Assistance\Client\1.0\en-US\Help_CValidator.H1D
[Microsoft Help Validator File (.H1D); Attributes: HSAI ]

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Assistance\Client\1.0\en-US\Help_MValidator.Lck
[LCK File (.Lck); Attributes: HSAI ]

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Assistance\Client\1.0\en-US\Help_MValidator.H1D
[Microsoft Help Validator File (.H1D); Attributes: HSAI ]
　
One person having a somewhat related problem, tracked down the first two files on Vista [http://forums.techguy.org/windows-vi...-problem.html] by using a Process Monitorfilter to isolate helppane.exe, and then changed the permissions on the two files to allow user access.

If you have Process Monitor, you should be able to track the real-time file system, Registry and process/thread activity using non-destructive filters; and determine where attempting to use mail.h1s fails and the root cause of why. The latest version of Process Monitor v2.8 (Nov 3, 2009), can be downloaded here [http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx]. As a side note, the latest version of Process Explorer v12.01 (April 1, 2010), can be downloaded here []Content not found. An interesting comparison may be to use a Process Monitorfilter to isolate WinMail.exe when clicking Windows Mail help on Vista vs. Windows Mail help on Win7.
　
It seems that the decision to not use Windows Calendar in Win7 was made early on, while the decision to not have Windows Mail as an option, was more of a "last minute" one, if the Local Group Policy Editor (GPedit.ms) is any indication in: Computer Configuration\
Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Calendar => Supported on: Windows Vista only
Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Mail => Supported on: At least Windows Vista
Likewise in: User Configuration\
Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Calendar=> Supported on: Windows Vista only
Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Mail => Supported on: At least Windows Vista
　
There may be hope that the Win7 mail.h1s file was fully linked within all of Win7 help; and all that is required is Registry key changes and/or the granting of help file permissions. Maybe you can compare the Windows Mail help Registry files on Vista vs. Win7. Registry files I found (may be others) related to C:\Windows\Help\Windows\en-US\mail.h1s [H1S File (.h1s); Attributes: A] on Win7 Ult.x64:
　
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\FileExts\.h1s\OpenWithList
(Default) REG_SZ (value not set)
a REG_SZ (WinMail.exe)
MRUList REG_SZ (a)
　
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\FileExts\.h1s\OpenWithProgids
(Default) REG_SZ (value not set)
h1sfile REG_NON (zero length binary value)
　
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\FileExts\.h1s\UserChoice
(Default) REG_SZ (value not set)
Progid REG_SZ (Applications\WinMail.exe)
　
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.H1S
(Default) REG_SZ h1sfile
　
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\.H1S
(Default) REG_SZ h1sfile
　
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\h1sfile
(Default) REG_SZ Compiled Windows Help file
FriendlyTypeName REG_EXPAND_SZ %SystemRoot%\System32\apds.dll,-152
NoOpen REG_SZ
　
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\h1sfile\DefaultIcon
(Default) REG_EXPAND_SZ %SystemRoot%\System32\apds.dll,-210
　
I'm not asking you to do anything, only if you still wanted to get the Windows Mail help file (mail.h1s) to work, then perhaps the above may be of some help.
Best regards, 2CR LZW

P.S. I would have provided the Registry files C:\Windows\Help\Windows\en-US\mail.h1s on Vista Ult.x64 except I had a motherboard failure on my M6300 and Dell replaced it for free with the M6400 w/Win7 Ult.x64. It was then, I was stunned to learn, that the "security" permission features of UAC denied me access to my own data! Even after using takeown & icalcs, It was still access denied. So I had to swap out the new Win7 Ult.x64 hard drive and replace it with the old M6300 Vista Ult.x64 drive in the M6400. I then used Notepad to copy the data to an external drive connected to the M6400, thereby bypassing the OS UAC altogether. After I figure out the size and placement of about a dozen partitions for the 2 new internal drives, I will use Hard Disk Manager 2010 Pro by Paragon to do a P2P Adjust bare-metal system deployment, to make sure I have all of the data, and to export the Vista software settings etc. I'm not sure if by doing so, the date time-stamps of folders and files will be reset, so before I do I will run SubInACL, and then use Robocopy to not only get a log to insure everything was copied, but also to maintain the data date time-stamps. Long story short, it will be awhile before I have a Vista VM onboard.

Only after having included this entry in the register was possible to send emails from EXCEL-2007.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Clients\Mail]
@="Windows Mail"

poppa bear;670081Hi 2CR LZW. Thanks for your input and kind remarks. [... said:

Also, Microsoft informed me that the Windows Mail folder in program files in Windows 7 was put there solely for the purpose of enabling Windows Live Mail to operate. I don't think many people realise this, or the fact that this whole business came about because of problems with fair trading rules in the European market. [...] Cheers PB.

Hi PB,
As applications on portable devices (esp. mobile phones) are increasingly being used to access data, that not long ago was the sole domain of the computer, and as technology changes (e.g. if Sprint's 4G network delivers a 10x increase in speed over 3G) at a fast pace, a shift in consumer preferences may occur sooner than anticipated.

Avoidance of the EU assumed bundling = antitrust violations notwithstanding, the wisdom of having the mail client independent of an OS's product cycle, allows Microsoft the ability to adapt to the marketplace in a timely manner instead of once every three years or so.

While the decision not to have Windows Mail as an official option for Windows 7, was a disappointment to the vast majority of users represented by the over 151,000 views of this tutorial, I understand the reasoning. If not, a good number of people may have downloaded Windows Mail w/o realizing all of the advantages of Windows Live Mail, and the other Live applications. In a competitive marketplace, Microsoft wants the consumer to use the best they have to offer, lest the Windows Mail user, switches to the competitors best w/o giving Windows Live Mail its due.

However, what is deemed best for the majority, may not be for a considerable number of users, pace the number of people and business's that tried Vista and opted for XP. One can read the previous 468 posts in this tutorial for the numerous reasons why, that after trying Windows Live Mail, so many opted to go to extra ordinary means to continue using Windows Mail. For me, it was a business decision.

It seems Windows Live Mail is geared towards families, as when it encounters multiple email accounts, it assumes they represent different family members and each one gets their own set of folders. I use three email accounts for various aspects of the business and 28 subfolders to keep track of all business expenses. No matter what email account the mail is received in, they can easily be sorted into the appropriate expense folder in Windows Mail. In contrast, Windows Live Mail produces 84 folders to keep track of business expenses, which is an additional expense of time (= 3x money), for which the benefits of WLM fail to overcome both the increase in cost; and the decrease in performance due to the additional services required to run WLM. In addition, the benefits of WLM do not justify the increased exposure to security vectors (sync, sharing, remote desktop, etc.) in a business setting. In short, great for families does not = good for business.

Does Microsoft have a vested interest in allowing Windows Mail on Windows 7?
While their steadfast customers wonder if the next month's patch Tuesday for Windows Updates will disable Windows Mail in Windows 7, I hope Microsoft considers the following from a legal point of view:

One could hardly claim you were tying the consumers' hands.

Microsoft would be showing great respect for the decisions of individuals.

Far from inhibiting fair competition, rather than downloading Windows Live Mail, or any of your competitors software, consumer choice went to extraordinary measures to use Windows Mail by Microsoft.

In the global marketplace, Microsoft ensured fair competition, and in contrast to claims our decision was "because it was jammed down our throats" we demonstrate, beyond a shadow of doubt (considering all of the easily obtainable offerings from your competitor's), that we choose Windows Mail based solely on its merits.

From a business perspective your not losing any revenue, both Windows Live Mail & Windows Mail are free.

And more importantly, you won't be losing us to your competitors', but you will be gaining customer loyalty.

Beyond us sevenforums members, who already have Windows 7, killing Windows Mail with an "update," will lose Microsoft revenue, as those who don't upgrade to Windows 7, because they prefer Windows XP/Outlook Express or Vista/Windows Mail to the Windows 7/Windows Live Mail option.

On the 1 year anniversary of Windows 7, graft us back in as an option within WLM (you can hide it deep within the interface options (if its there, we will find it).

However, if that is not possible without making us use all the services (for sync, sharing, remote desktop, etc.) that decrease our performance and needlessly increases our exposure to security vectors, then provide a standalone Windows Mail to download. If an analogy would help, as:

Windows Live Mail is to Windows 7 : Windows Mail is to XP Mode in Windows 7.

PB, if you or any other members, have points to add or subtract, maybe someone could compile a bit more cogent post, and have someone with Microsoft contacts get it to a decision maker, and stop some zealot from killing all the work that went into this Windows Mail tutorial.
Best regards, 2CR LZW

2CR LZW said:

PB, if you or any other members, have points to add or subtract, maybe someone could compile a bit more cogent post, and have someone with Microsoft contacts get it to a decision maker, and stop some zealot from killing all the work that went into this Windows Mail tutorial.
Best regards, 2CR LZW

Hi 2CR LZW,

I haven't had time to fully digest your post, but in the main totally agree with the line of reasoning presented. There are a few points I would like to make.

1. I originally became involved in this issue in November 2009, when I did a post for Techspot Forums using information from this forum. I later joined this forum and you know the rest of the story from there. The point is, my Techspot Forum has had close to 6,000 views in just over 4 months, in addition to the 151,000 views on this forum. Considering the original tutorial here started about a year ago, and the back of the problem had been broken, while 6,000 views is comparatively small, it is still relatively significant considering the fact that it only occured late in the day.

2. The broader issue is the swing away from stand alone programs to Windows Live programs which also includes Windows Calendar, and Windows Movie Maker.

Windows Live Movie Maker for example, does not edit MP3 songs which the old Movie Maker did. And the list goes on.

3. The question is, what is the best way to get this across to Microsoft? And in this respect I have corresponded with Microsoft Australia re this issue.

I referred them via links to this tutorial thread, and the Techspot one. And apart from highlighting the general discontent by consumers at the loss of Windows Mail, I also pointed out a few of the more salient posts, including one by a system builder, here, who became so fed up with client's saying they would not buy Windows 7 unless they could get Windows Mail installed, that he developed his own program to import WinMail from Vista.

The person from Microsoft with whom I have been been in contact is:

Jeff Putt, and his email address is: jeffputt@microsoft.com

He advised me that Microsoft are bringing out a Wave 4 version of Windows Live Mail later this month, and asked if I would check it out, which I intend to do.

However, it's not really what I think that matters, but the general ground swell of public consumer opinion. In my humble opinion, the best possible way to get the message across is for as many consumers as possible to voice their disapproval direct to Microsoft. How to enlist them to do this is another matter altogether, of course. Perhaps you would be kind enough to offer any thoughts you might have towards achieving this goal?

As a general aside, I do know Microsoft take notice of consumer feed-back. A few years ago I had a row with MS Australia re activation of WinXP when experimenting with multiple partitions and OSs. I also criticised the fact that the auto options for optical drives had not worked properly in all versions from Win98 to XP, and asked how to turn it off completely. They wanted to charge me $50 for a techo to tell me how to do this, to which I strongly objected. And finally, I pointed out that it was not possible to make a partition active using the Repair utility on boot up from the XP installation CD.

In response, as a gesture of good will, at no cost to me, they upgraded my XP Home Upgrade from Win98, to a retail version of XP Pro with SP2 pre-loaded; and also included in Vista, a single switch to turn off all optical drive auto functions; and also a partition manager in Vista which allowed different partitions to be set as active, as well as an option to re-size partitons. Finally they gave me two free sessions with one of their techos, valued at $50/session. I was quite impressed with this response. And for this reason exhort consumers to make direct contact.

I'd appreciate hearing your, or any other members' thoughts on this issue.

Cheers PB

2CR LZW said:

poppa bear;670081Hi 2CR LZW. Thanks for your input and kind remarks. [... said:

Also, Microsoft informed me that the Windows Mail folder in program files in Windows 7 was put there solely for the purpose of enabling Windows Live Mail to operate. I don't think many people realise this, or the fact that this whole business came about because of problems with fair trading rules in the European market. [...] Cheers PB.

Hi PB,
As applications on portable devices (esp. mobile phones) are increasingly being used to access data, that not long ago was the sole domain of the computer, and as technology changes (e.g. if Sprint's 4G network delivers a 10x increase in speed over 3G) at a fast pace, a shift in consumer preferences may occur sooner than anticipated.

Avoidance of the EU assumed bundling = antitrust violations notwithstanding, the wisdom of having the mail client independent of an OS's product cycle, allows Microsoft the ability to adapt to the marketplace in a timely manner instead of once every three years or so.

While the decision not to have Windows Mail as an official option for Windows 7, was a disappointment to the vast majority of users represented by the over 151,000 views of this tutorial, I understand the reasoning. If not, a good number of people may have downloaded Windows Mail w/o realizing all of the advantages of Windows Live Mail, and the other Live applications. In a competitive marketplace, Microsoft wants the consumer to use the best they have to offer, lest the Windows Mail user, switches to the competitors best w/o giving Windows Live Mail its due.

However, what is deemed best for the majority, may not be for a considerable number of users, pace the number of people and business's that tried Vista and opted for XP. One can read the previous 468 posts in this tutorial for the numerous reasons why, that after trying Windows Live Mail, so many opted to go to extra ordinary means to continue using Windows Mail. For me, it was a business decision.

It seems Windows Live Mail is geared towards families, as when it encounters multiple email accounts, it assumes they represent different family members and each one gets their own set of folders. I use three email accounts for various aspects of the business and 28 subfolders to keep track of all business expenses. No matter what email account the mail is received in, they can easily be sorted into the appropriate expense folder in Windows Mail. In contrast, Windows Live Mail produces 84 folders to keep track of business expenses, which is an additional expense of time (= 3x money), for which the benefits of WLM fail to overcome both the increase in cost; and the decrease in performance due to the additional services required to run WLM. In addition, the benefits of WLM do not justify the increased exposure to security vectors (sync, sharing, remote desktop, etc.) in a business setting. In short, great for families does not = good for business.

Does Microsoft have a vested interest in allowing Windows Mail on Windows 7?
While their steadfast customers wonder if the next month's patch Tuesday for Windows Updates will disable Windows Mail in Windows 7, I hope Microsoft considers the following from a legal point of view:

One could hardly claim you were tying the consumers' hands.

Microsoft would be showing great respect for the decisions of individuals.

Far from inhibiting fair competition, rather than downloading Windows Live Mail, or any of your competitors software, consumer choice went to extraordinary measures to use Windows Mail by Microsoft.

In the global marketplace, Microsoft ensured fair competition, and in contrast to claims our decision was "because it was jammed down our throats" we demonstrate, beyond a shadow of doubt (considering all of the easily obtainable offerings from your competitor's), that we choose Windows Mail based solely on its merits.

From a business perspective your not losing any revenue, both Windows Live Mail & Windows Mail are free.

And more importantly, you won't be losing us to your competitors', but you will be gaining customer loyalty.

Beyond us sevenforums members, who already have Windows 7, killing Windows Mail with an "update," will lose Microsoft revenue, as those who don't upgrade to Windows 7, because they prefer Windows XP/Outlook Express or Vista/Windows Mail to the Windows 7/Windows Live Mail option.

On the 1 year anniversary of Windows 7, graft us back in as an option within WLM (you can hide it deep within the interface options (if its there, we will find it).

However, if that is not possible without making us use all the services (for sync, sharing, remote desktop, etc.) that decrease our performance and needlessly increases our exposure to security vectors, then provide a standalone Windows Mail to download. If an analogy would help, as:

Windows Live Mail is to Windows 7 : Windows Mail is to XP Mode in Windows 7.

PB, if you or any other members, have points to add or subtract, maybe someone could compile a bit more cogent post, and have someone with Microsoft contacts get it to a decision maker, and stop some zealot from killing all the work that went into this Windows Mail tutorial.
Best regards, 2CR LZW

Yea, I quoted it all! I think it's worth reading again because I like what you wrote. I will be one of the ones who fall into the category of using something else other than Windows Live anything other than their Live System Cleaner. It seems to do an excellent job although I use it as reference only when it comes to the reg cleaning part. I gather the info and clean it myself.

thankss, i am interested in this

I was about to give up. This worked like a charm! I have my WinMail back and could not be happier. Thanks to Mark for publishing the fix and thanks to Poppa Bear for the updated fix! Great work guys!